BEIJING Motor Show

[MrOtto]

With tech stolen from VW.

MSN

https://cybernews.com/news/volkswagen-breach-china-hackers/

Don't buy internet and camera connected devices from Chinese companies or use "Tik Tok"

 

[MrOtto]

State funded hacking and state subsidised car industry. Put two and two togheter.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/13/cars/europe-china-electric-car-subsidies/index.html

 

[jayapple]

State funded hacking and state subsidised car industry. Put two and two togheter.

https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/13/cars/europe-china-electric-car-subsidies/index.html

The fact is that many electric vehicles in Europe are based on Chinese electric vehicle platforms, which are joint ventures that sell to both China and Europe.

For example, the electric Mini and the electric Smart, as well as electric vehicles from Japanese car manufacturers such as Honda and Mazda, are also based on Chinese technology.

In the future, more Volkswagen and Audi brand cars that use Chinese electric vehicle technology will be sold in Europe.

 

[jayapple]

Mazda (who's current design and IC engineering I really like) also presented an BEV and PHEV successor of the Mazda 6 but unfortunately on a Chinese platform:

Source and more: https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-news/2025-mazda-ez-6-revealed-to-take-on-tesla-model-3-in-china

Not only Mazda but also Honda are all based on Chinese electric vehicle platforms.

 

[JeffS7444]

Any new mini-EVs from the likes of Wuling? Was surprised to find that General Motors holds a 40%+ stake in the company, and they certainly look stylish.

To date, the only Chinese EVs that I've noticed in the USA were a couple of BYDs which appeared to be fleet vehicles.

 

[Gorgonzola]

View attachment 365740

Whoa!! Now that's interesting. Back in 2018 my family & I were in Beijing for a couple of weeks and I didn't see a single North American style pickup. My daughter-in-law, a native Beijinger, asserted that they weren't permitted in China.

 

[Mikig]

they all look beautiful, even if very similar to each other. But it's a problem for every brand: the watchword is "conformity"!!

Of course, long gone are those days where cars were cars. Each brand had its own peculiarity, its own personality. You could recognize them even in the fog, some had a characteristic "voice". Let's say that modern cars are increasingly "appliances" with wheels.
For those who have a passion for driving, there is very little left: we have to settle for tablets on wheels, because the world wants this, sadly, and, for those who dreamed of an engine or a very specific mechanical feature, there is very little left to look for....
There is very little left of romance in the world of cars....

 

[thewas]

For those who have a passion for driving, there is very little left: we have to settle for tablets on wheels, because the world wants this, sadly, and, for those who dreamed of an engine or a very specific mechanical feature, there is very little left to look for....
There is very little left of romance in the world of cars....

True, but thank god there still exist so many older cars and spare parts for people like us who love such.

 

[Mikig]

True, but thank god there still exist so many older cars and spare parts for people like us who love such.

Absolutely! I'm starting to think about diversifying.
A modern appliance for every day and a classic one, to cuddle, admire and take for a walk when you're not in a hurry...

of course I often think of one thing, which makes me smile: how times change, when I was a boy I had car posters on every wall of my bedroom: Testarossa, Countach, Delta Evo, Formula1, 911, a concentration of emotions and shapes!! If I were a boy again I would have to hang Prius, Tesla, BYD and FormulaE…

 

[thewas]

Absolutely! I'm starting to think about diversifying.
A modern appliance for every day and a classic one, to cuddle, admire and take for a walk when you're not in a hurry...

Can only recommend such which I am doing since many years now and my small collection is continuously growing and the age of the interesting cars for me is getting older and older, even my daily driver usage (which often is quite well fulfilled by cars from the 80s and early 90s which offer already some safety with ABS etc).

 

[Mikig]

Can only recommend such which I am doing since many years now and my small collection is continuously growing and the age of the interesting cars for me is getting older and older, even my daily driver usage (which often is quite well fulfilled by cars from the 80s and early 90s which offer already some safety with ABS etc).

Yes, 80s but above all 90s cars that were already safe and usable!!
the only flaw,here, is that prices are rising more and more.
Twenty-year-old cars enjoy some exemptions between road tax and insurance, so the price skyrockets.
however, as an enthusiast, I learned to read and count with car magazines, now I only looked at cars from the 90s onwards. In fact, I have a passion for pre-'47 cars. Some masterpieces…….
I haven't been into a dealership in a long time. When I was younger I spent the afternoons there. There is really little that is beautiful today, leaving aside the usual untouchable icons. Or rather, today's cars are perfect, for the utilitarian purpose, but not very emotional.

 

[Somafunk]

There is very little left of romance in the world of cars....

Or the need to carry a selection of tools, alternator/water pump belts, points and condenser’s, distributor caps/ht leads, fuses, bulbs and a bucket to bail out the car as you never could find that one troublesome water leak…….it was always the rear light seals/sunroof/bulkhead sealing etc….etc..

My mint 1984 mk2 golf gti had the occasional water leak every now and again despite being a full restoration from a bare shell, I think the car was possessed and just wanted to fuck with me on occasions.

Obviously I removed the original 8v 115bhp engine and fitted a fully built 16v 194bhp engine, much better power to weight ratio in a 950kg car and just enough power to have fun without being stupid with it. Everything else running gear wise also upgraded to cope with extra power and track use.

 

[Mikig]

Or the need to carry a selection of tools, alternator/water pump belts, points and condenser’s, distributor caps/ht leads, fuses, bulbs and a bucket to bail out the car as you never could find that one troublesome water leak…….it was always the rear light seals/sunroof/bulkhead sealing etc….etc..

My mint 1984 mk2 golf gti had the occasional water leak every now and again despite being a full restoration from a bare shell, I think the car was possessed and just wanted to fuck with me on occasions.

but that's the beauty of it...open the bonnet, look, measure, turn it on, wait...do the test drive...take the rag and clean the fingerprints...I had a youngtimer a few years ago and I really enjoyed it...then for work and family I had to put my passion aside, but I'm starting to look again, I miss it too much!! That Golf series is beautiful!!

 

[Mikig]

Obviously I removed the original 8v 115bhp engine and fitted a fully built 16v 194bhp engine, much better power to weight ratio in a 950kg car

beautiful, congratulations! well 194 horsepower for 950 kilograms is a lot!! almost more Lotus than VW

 

[Somafunk]

beautiful, congratulations! well 194 horsepower for 950 kilograms is a lot!! almost more Lotus than VW

Thank you, had to sell it back in 2018 as my spms meant I could no longer safely drive it as it should be driven nor get into it/out of it, i spent tens of thousands on it over the years and everything restored down to last nut/bolt and interior, Modern stand alone injection/engine ecu with full handmade wiring harness but it was well worth every expense, every skinned knuckle, every time stood at the side of the road with bonnet open scratching my head etc….

I doubt electric cars will give that sense of driving pleasure and achievement in years to come, in 30 years time no one will be treasuring and caring for an original Tesla Model Y

 

[ta240]

Let's take a look at the newly released Chinese cars.

I know it is common for cars to have visible bits of inspiration from other cars showing in their lines, but there are several of those that with an emblem change would look right at home in the lineup of other brands. Toyota, Tesla, Lincoln.... It seems like they are borrowing a lot of inspiration from existing designs.

 

[ta240]

The fact is that many electric vehicles in Europe are based on Chinese electric vehicle platforms, which are joint ventures that sell to both China and Europe.

For example, the electric Mini and the electric Smart, as well as electric vehicles from Japanese car manufacturers such as Honda and Mazda, are also based on Chinese technology.

In the future, more Volkswagen and Audi brand cars that use Chinese electric vehicle technology will be sold in Europe.

How does that make what they did okay? If they group that stolen information with other stolen information and come up with a good product, does that absolve them of the wrongdoing? I guess as long as they don't threaten to sue a reviewer it is anything goes...

 

[Mikig]

Dubito che le auto elettriche daranno quel senso di piacere di guida e di successo negli anni a venire, tra 30 anni nessuno farà tesoro e si prenderà cura di una Tesla Model Y originale

I also think that the wave of new cars will not be collectible in the slightest. I think this phenomenon will stop at the combustion engine... moreover if I think that many young people today don't get a driving license...

 

[Mikig]

I know it is common for cars to have visible bits of inspiration from other cars showing in their lines, but there are several of those that with an emblem change would look right at home in the lineup of other brands. Toyota, Tesla, Lincoln.... It seems like they are borrowing a lot of inspiration from existing designs.

unfortunately little new is seen around. Car manufacturers often resort to the "nostalgia" operation to look for character in vehicles. The “masters” of design are a memory of the last century. Modern design studios mostly respond to the marketing sector, accountants and influencers. Perhaps this is precisely why the true enthusiast is a little uncomfortable with modern cars, and much prefers the productions of the past....

 

[jayapple]

Any new mini-EVs from the likes of Wuling? Was surprised to find that General Motors holds a 40%+ stake in the company, and they certainly look stylish.

To date, the only Chinese EVs that I've noticed in the USA were a couple of BYDs which appeared to be fleet vehicles.

It should be hard to see an EV car in the United States, with the exception of a Tesla. Times are changing, electric vehicles have accounted for more than 40%, and fuel cars are no longer the protagonist at auto shows.