Robbie Busting Audio Myths at CanJam NYC 2024

[Jmudrick]

Really not a matter of "fancy" or not. For whatever reasons more folks than not can't pass better than 24/96 over toslink.

I'm not questioning that's the case. My previous configuration wouldn't. Just encouraging folks not to spend on a fancy cable to achieve 192.

 

[Sal1950]

I'm not questioning that's the case. My previous configuration wouldn't. Just encouraging folks not to spend on a fancy cable to achieve 192.

Sure, In any case if you have the option like at HDTracks, don't pay more for 24/192 files. You'll never hear a difference unless
one of the files has been purposely manipulated to sound different and milk your wallet.

 

[solderdude]

Yep, I'm for sure no expert here but AFAIK toslink optical should also be immune to the other forms of
signal contamination via RF and other radiated forms of induced noise.
OTOH as I already mentioned toslink as implemented for the use of digital signal transmission in HiFi is badly limited in
bandwidth etc, it's obsolete. But then we all know that optical fiber has fantastic potential, just not as designed way back in the early days of CD, etc. I use optical HDMI cables for the transmission of all my saved music and video files, it is capable of over
100ft or more distances with the proper gear.

Yep, with real optical fibers there are no limits and kilometers of multimode fiber is no problem.
There are, however, many different types of cable connectors requiring factory made cables and proper cleaning when handling the cables.
The fun part of POF cable is that you can basically DIY those cables.
Plastic optical 'fiber' (we call those light sewers in the fiber-optic world) is severely limited.
It worked fine for CD when it was first used but with multichannel and unnecessary high bit rates/depths it falls short.

 

[Music1969]

Its random noise modulation I tell you... It artificially makes the sound sharper/brighter.
Listening fatigue ....
When the noise is hundreds dB down it can still be heard. Its the f'ing brain that can detect this.
You need single wire mains cables .... that'll help too.
Amd yes... GH noise will be AM detected and this will make things sound bad.
Jitter is a problem ... but not in Robs DACs. He is the only one that knows how to do it.
USB cables are incredibly difficult to make...
SMPS sound much better... because they have filters... Noise modulation people... > 100dB down
And yes, batteries have noise which makes the sound bright..
All metals have noise... it makes the sound bright... the depth... noise modulation yes ... -350dB
Resistors are horrible.
Capacitors have noise folks ... modulation...
Inductors ... don't use them in the audio path ...

Of course, all parts used by Rob sound smooth... other brands... bright, the noise you know ... -350dB noise yes... it matters folks.

Rob, is that you ?

That is all Rob's Greatest Hits !!

 

[Music1969]

I always liked it because it provides 100% galvanic isolated, no chance of a created ground loop.

True but the same for a DAC with ethernet input, as long as you use unshielded UTP cable.

You can also add a Topping HS02 USB isolator to any USB DAC and get the same benefit as TOSlink regarding ground loops

 

[Sal1950]

The fun part of POF cable is that you can basically DIY those cables.

For sure, no Solder-dudes needed. LOL

 

[Music1969]

I love when these vids of Bob come out.

They are pure comedy - I will watch it in 15 minute chunks each morning over breakfast and coffee

I love how he has a slight smirk as he says all this nonsense - he's taking the piss !

 

[Vacceo]

Yep, I'm for sure no expert here but AFAIK toslink optical should also be immune to the other forms of
signal contamination via RF and other radiated forms of induced noise.
OTOH as I already mentioned toslink as implemented for the use of digital signal transmission in HiFi is badly limited in
bandwidth etc, it's obsolete. But then we all know that optical fiber has fantastic potential, just not as designed way back in the early days of CD, etc. I use optical HDMI cables for the transmission of all my saved music and video files, it is capable of over
100ft or more distances with the proper gear.

Being a matter of bandwidth it could be theoretically possible to upgrade it, right?

 

[solderdude]

The problem lies in the optic receivers.
These are the BW limiting devices.
Not all receivers are created equal and for some there are drop in parts with the same pinning/form factor.
The light source (red LED) is not really the problem nor optical modes/damping of the 1mm POF (real optical fiber is 9um, 50um or 62.5um).
There are some cables containing a bundle of real glass fibers but this will only help bridging larger distances as the receiver itself is the issue. The transmission format is a-synchronous. Real optical connections use different protocols (synchronous).
TOSLINK basically is the S/PDIF signal directly converted (1:1) to light.

 

[kemmler3D]

I love when these vids of Bob come out.

They are pure comedy - I will watch it in 15 minute chunks each morning over breakfast and coffee

I love how he has a slight smirk as he says all this nonsense - he's taking the piss !

View attachment 358869

It's a better explanation than someone knowing what a decibel is and still saying the stuff he says.

 

[Jagamov]

I love how he has a slight smirk as he says all this nonsense - he's taking the piss !

Here's my question: Is he knowingly making this stuff up and just telling us this BS and getting away with it (con artist), or do you think he truly believes it all and that he really is the only one who has it all figured out (delusional)?

 

[Sal1950]

Here's my question: Is he knowingly making this stuff up and just telling us this BS and getting away with it (con artist), or do you think he truly believes it all and that he really is the only one who has it all figured out (delusional)?

Simple, He's a very intelligent man that has figured out how to make a lot of money from the gullible audiophile market.
He knows it's all BS and packages it well.

 

[tmtomh]

Again, Watts is correct that galvanic isolation removes a potential source of noise and ground loops. And he's right that electrical and electronic components can - and usually do - generate noise. Like most audiophile vendors who peddle the stuff he peddles, he's just wrong about the levels at which humans can hear that noise, how easy or difficult it is to suppress or control that noise, and how much money you need to spend in order to design and purchase gear that can effectively do that job.

 

[solderdude]

Rob Watts(in a name) mixes truth with fiction. Just like Paul McClown does, some others do that too b.t.w. but those are most visible ones.
There is a chance that he (Paul and others too) really believe what they preach.
It is also possible it is just a sales pitch. His chimney has to keep on smoking after all.

 

[Sal1950]

Just like Paul McClown does

OMG, that's too funny.

 

[gwing]

I always liked it because it provides 100% galvanic isolated, no chance of a created ground loop.
But it will be limited to 2ch and 24/96bps on most systems, though some will do 24/192
depending on the gear at both ends.

Ditto, I like the isolation from using optical as well, although most kit only has one such connection available.

But hopefully it'll all be AoE over optical fibre ethernet one day, then we can throw the rest of these connections away. Maybe.

 

[Geert]

Rob Watts(in a name) mixes truth with fiction. Just like Paul McClown does, some others do that too b.t.w. but those are most visible ones.

Alpha-Audio is the first runner-up.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Rob Watts(in a name) mixes truth with fiction.

One of the actual definition of pseudoscience. There is just enough truth applied, at the right time, to amuse, then baffle, then sell to those that DON'T
know any better. Bob? Who's Bob? BTW there are not a lot of myths to bust, as a matter of fact I can't think of one. A myth is usually based on some type
of event that did happen, but with vague and vast recollections at the time. The myth is the Christians were fed to the lions, the fact are, a few were.

Regards

 

[somebodyelse]

If he could hear something 350dB down he'd have vastly better hearing than Superman is depicted as having in the comics / movies. The distance he could hear loud noises from is a significant fraction of a lightyear. Billions or trillions of kilometers away. I haven't run the numbers but I'm pretty sure brownian motion of air molecules makes a much louder noise than what he claims to be able to hear.

It's a wonder that anyone sits there and listens to stuff like that as if their intelligence isn't being gravely insulted.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110540/how-loud-is-the-thermal-motion-of-air-molecules
I don't know enough to check it, but sources are cited putting it at -20 to -30 dB SPL depending on assumptions, so the Microsoft anechoic chamber isn't far off. Between that and the point where the atmosphere starts clipping we have the dynamic range of the atmosphere, around 220dB.

 

[kemmler3D]

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/110540/how-loud-is-the-thermal-motion-of-air-molecules
I don't know enough to check it, but sources are cited putting it at -20 to -30 dB SPL depending on assumptions, so the Microsoft anechoic chamber isn't far off. Between that and the point where the atmosphere starts clipping we have the dynamic range of the atmosphere, around 220dB.

Apparently he's mistaken the sound of molecules bouncing off his eardrum for electronic noise and spent his life chasing a phantom... tragic...