A Thread Dedicated to Cirrus Logic CS43131

[Deleted member 71835]

in that case DSD will go at 100% volume and it can be dangerous for your ears.

Ah yes... I experienced it by trying... I did not understand what was hardware control since i was still able to control it with phone buttons. Now it makes sense

And i'm assuming even if it's very little it contributes to sound quality as well.

 

[ZolaIII]

Ah yes... I experienced it by trying... I did not understand what was hardware control since i was still able to control it with phone buttons. Now it makes sense

And i'm assuming even if it's very little it contributes to sound quality as well.

Now play with 10 PEQ filters and MSAB and experience that. Simply said you can convert DSD to PCM and compress it. Not only you won't lose anything but you will gain about 2x storage space savings and ability to change sound (DSP it towards your headphones/earphones) on the flight. That's why you don't want DSD in the first place. Now excuse me I have to play with tap filters (FIR impulse response), did timing sync wrong yesterday.

 

[Deleted member 71835]

Yes, on my JM20 it works, since CS43131 has hardware volume control, I can set Hiby to "Unlock volume" and i can control volume while playing DSD in native mode.
Be aware, don't try to set "locked volume" or "Unlock for all but DSD" with you headphone on, in that case DSD will go at 100% volume and it can be dangerous for your ears.

EDIT
Ok, AC30 has hardware buttoins for volume, what i said is for JM20 that doesn't have them, but you can control volume with the smartphone buttons too, in Exclusive mode they will change hardware volume of the dongle.

Sorry to bother. I got 3 questions but if you dont have time can you at least look at first? Thanks.

I changed to Hiby as well. But theres 2 volume settings:

Which does what?
I understood like this: Enabling hardware volume control makes audio sent to dac bit perfect and control volume there. Lock usb audio locking dac audio control as well and makes both no software and hardware control. So, unlocking volume doesnt prevent bit perfect. This option for people have analog volume control.
Is this correct?

I enabled hq access. But:

Samplerate is correct but it converts 16 bit track to 32 bit. Is this normal? Is it blocking bit-perfect playback?

And even though i select native and my dac supports it why it plays dsd128 with dsd(dop) not native? Other players were using native.

 

[mc.god]

Sorry to bother. I got 3 questions but if you dont have time can you at least look at first? Thanks.

I changed to Hiby as well. But theres 2 volume settings:

Which does what?
I understood like this: Enabling hardware volume control makes audio sent to dac bit perfect and control volume there. Lock usb audio locking dac audio control as well and makes both no software and hardware control. So, unlocking volume doesnt prevent bit perfect. This option for people have analog volume control.
Is this correct?

Remarking that i use Hiby just for testing device capabilities, since I use my CS43131 dongles with my laptop and nver with smartphone, so mine is a limited experience:

- Use hardware volume: tell the app to use harware volume control if the dongle supports it. CS43131 has hardware volume, in suple words it means that volum regulation is made at the ouput of the dac in the analog amplification stage so the signal processed by the dac is full scale and bit perfect.
Is's not strictly related to the dongle having or not hardware volume buttons, both my 2 dongles don't have them but hardware volume is supported and regultaion is nade vie the smartphone buttons (that in this case have many more steps than the default few steps of software android volume)
- Lock USB audio vol: since you dongle has hardware volume buttons you can set it to locked, volume buttons of the smartphone will not work but you can set volumes with the buttons of the dongle. since mine don't have volume buttons i set it Unlock for all media, it keep going in bit perfect mode due to the hardware volume control of the dongle explained before.
Hope I managed to be understendable (english is not my first language and I'm a bit in a hurry).

Samplerate is correct but it converts 16 bit track to 32 bit. Is this normal? Is it blocking bit-perfect playback?

It's normal, bith depth doesn't impact sample rate and stream is bit perfect.

And even though i select native and my dac supports it why it plays dsd128 with dsd(dop) not native? Other players were using native.

This is what I was sayin in my earlier replies, this seems to say that you dongle only supports DSD in DoP mode, that would explain why it can't play DSD256 files.

I have the same on the Ugreen dongle (that is in fact advertised ad DSD128)

while on JM20 (that has a differente usb bridge and is advertised for DSD256) I get

 

[Deleted member 71835]

Lock USB audio vol: since you dongle has hardware volume buttons you can set it to locked, volume buttons of the smartphone will not work but you can set volumes with the buttons of the dongle

Well the thing is i cant control even with dongles buttons when set to locked?

Hope I managed to be understendable

Yep! I'm not native english as well but it was very understandable thanks

This is what I was sayin in my earlier replies, this seems to say that you dongle only supports DSD in DoP mode, that would explain why it can't play DSD256 files.

In neutron, it can play native up to dsd128 but changes to dpcm256 when trying to play dsd256 (And im guessing this means DoP) Does this confirm what you say?

And on product page it says dsd64/128/256 and says dsd256 decoding. So this does not specify native?

 

[staticV3]

Well the thing is i cant control even with dongles buttons when set to locked?

When you enable Lock USB audio volume in Hiby, the dongle's volume rocker no longer works?

 

[CedarX]

- Use hardware volume: tell the app to use harware volume control if the dongle supports it. CS43131 has hardware volume

Having a doubt on this: CS43131 has HW volume, but it is only been used if the USB bridge chip implements it, correct? I believe the source (Laptop, Hiby DAP, etc.) only "talks" to the USB bridge, not directly to the CS43131.

Are the dongle volume buttons or rocker always "wired" to the CS4313 HW volume input, or it's a "it depends": they could be routed/managed through the USB bridge chip (its microcontroller feature)?

 

[Deleted member 71835]

When you enable Lock USB audio volume in Hiby, the dongle's volume rocker no longer works?

Yes. But in unblocked hardware control works:

Now tried with neutron

It lets control hardware audio if 2nd option is on too.

You guys sure this is intentionally blocking hw volume as well to control analog?

Spoiler: Whyyyy

Why theres so many volume controls!? Why they do not make it easier?..

 

[mc.god]

In neutron, it can play native up to dsd128 but changes to dpcm256 when trying to play dsd256 (And im guessing this means DoP) Does this confirm what you say?

And on product page it says dsd64/128/256 and says dsd256 decoding. So this does not specify native?

I don't know how Neutron works, sorry.

Having a doubt on this: CS43131 has HW volume, but it is only been used if the USB bridge chip implements it, correct? I believe the source (Laptop, Hiby DAP, etc.) only "talks" to the USB bridge, not directly to the CS43131.

Are the dongle volume buttons or rocker always "wired" to the CS4313 HW volume input, or it's a "it depends": they could be routed/managed through the USB bridge chip (its microcontroller feature)?

As i specified i don't own any dongle with hardware volume buttons so I probably just assumed too much.

 

[shoto]

I have tempotec hd pro, it allows volume to control while playing DSD, but what I read says for this to be possible it must be converted back to PCM.
In CS43131 block diagram, you can see the DSD input bypass interpolation and volume control... anyone explain how volume control is possible?
datasheet mentions "Nondecimating volume control" seemingly in relation to DSD playback... if that means anything

 

[CedarX]

I have tempotec hd pro, it allows volume to control while playing DSD, but what I read says for this to be possible it must be converted back to PCM.
In CS43131 block diagram, you can see the DSD input bypass interpolation and volume control... anyone explain how volume control is possible?
datasheet mentions "Nondecimating volume control" seemingly in relation to DSD playback... if that means anything

AFAIK there is no way to control the volume level of a DSD stream, it needs to be "converted" for this to happen: converting DSD to PCM is one way, but I believe inside the DAC, as part of the digital to analog conversion process, is another way... I think the later is what is shown in the CS4313 block diagram, as part of the DSD path. (Disclaimer: I am not using DSD at all except for some test files laying around...).

 

[mc.god]

As I already described with my Jcally JM20 I can play DSD in Hardware Native mode with Hiby music, set volume to unlocked and i can control it with the smartphone buttons (JM 20 doesn't have physical volume buttons). I suppose it controls the volume at the output amplification stage just after the D\A conversion (probably what they describe as "non decimating volume control").
I remember Sonata using a Savitech usb bridge like the JM20 so maybe it behaves the same, with other CS43131 dongles it's not granted.

 

[mc.god]

Here are five of them:
View attachment 312959View attachment 312960View attachment 312961View attachment 312962View attachment 312963

If you're interested in specific measurements, feel free to tell me.

I'd like to post complete measurement reviews at some point, I just currently lack the energy.

Hi @staticV3, I resume this post of yours to ask for some enlightenment.
Is this picture from the same measurements set you shared?

I'm asking because after a long time I happened to look at the Ugreen measurements made by L7audiolab and, while sinad is on par, thd+n vs power was somewhat worse (the green line at 32 ohm obviously) except for the last end:

On other hand, MBQuart results are totally in line, so I suppose that measurements rig can be comparable:

Am I missing something or simply going nut comparing scales and converting db to %? Which Ugreen measurements should be considered more reliable?
I'll be thankful if you or anyone else could share his thoughts about it.

 

[staticV3]

Am I missing something or simply going nut comparing scales and converting db to %? Which Ugreen measurements should be considered more reliable?

L7's sweep measurements of the Ugreen have a lot more noise, which hides the early rise in distortion at 25mW seen in mine.

Both sweeps show the Ugreen clip at about the same level.

L7's noisy sweeps I believe were caused by the same software incompatibility that Amir sometimes encounters when testing dongles:


I don't have that issue using REW.

 

[mc.god]

L7's sweep measurements of the Ugreen have a lot more noise, which hides the early rise in distortion at 25mW seen in mine.

Both sweeps show the Ugreen clip at about the same level.

L7's noisy sweeps I believe were caused by the same software incompatibility that Amir sometimes encounters when testing dongles:
View attachment 358853

I don't have that issue using REW.

Thank you very much, it makes very sense. I didn't think about that issue in sweeps test, only remembered about some grounding problem that affected Amir's tests and thought that those should have impacted sinad too, like in Meizu Pro review. But then you remarked this other aspect, that we can see in S8 and other tests (Tanchjim Space, Hidisz S9: good sinad, "bad" noise in power sweeps), and yes, it now makes sense. I was also mislead by other CS43131 dongles tests that did'n show that issue, like Tempotec Sonata HD and BHD, both behaving much like your tests, but now I'm thinking that Tempotec provides Asio drivers witch should be compatible with AP software and again, everything makes sense.

Now, after reviewing all those tests, ans summarizing what said in precedent posts, some personal and probably useless considerations related to me using them with pc and not on the go with smartphone:

• all CS43131 dongles without additional op-amp shows an early rise in thd+n with low impedance loads not seen in the 2 units having op-amp (Ugreen and Meizu Pro), while all units behaving nice when not loaded. On the other hand, Meizu Pro and Ugreen, having CS46L41 usb bridge working in sync mode, show worse jitter then model with Savitech async bridge. All of this makes no op-amp unit best suited as pure dac with Meizu Pro and Ugreen better at directly driving headphones;
• Both Meizu Pro and Ugreen use opa1622 op-amp, it would be interesting to see measurements of recent dongles using the discussed Ricore 6183 and SGM 8262, especially interesting would be the extremely affordable Fiio KA11 with SGM op-amp and Savitech bridge.
• OK, I finished talking nonsense, thanks again!

 

[CedarX]

Thank you very much, it makes very sense. I didn't think about that issue in sweeps test, only remembered about some grounding problem that affected Amir's tests and thought that those should have impacted sinad too, like in Meizu Pro review. But then you remarked this other aspect, that we can see in S8 and other tests (Tanchjim Space, Hidisz S9: good sinad, "bad" noise in power sweeps), and yes, it now makes sense. I was also mislead by other CS43131 dongles tests that did'n show that issue, like Tempotec Sonata HD and BHD, both behaving much like your tests, but now I'm thinking that Tempotec provides Asio drivers witch should be compatible with AP software and again, everything makes sense.

Now, after reviewing all those tests, ans summarizing what said in precedent posts, some personal and probably useless considerations related to me using them with pc and not on the go with smartphone:

• all CS43131 dongles without additional op-amp shows an early rise in thd+n with low impedance loads not seen in the 2 units having op-amp (Ugreen and Meizu Pro), while all units behaving nice when not loaded. On the other hand, Meizu Pro and Ugreen, having CS46L41 usb bridge working in sync mode, show worse jitter then model with Savitech async bridge. All of this makes no op-amp unit best suited as pure dac with Meizu Pro and Ugreen better at directly driving headphones;
• Both Meizu Pro and Ugreen use opa1622 op-amp, it would be interesting to see measurements of recent dongles using the discussed Ricore 6183 and SGM 8262, especially interesting would be the extremely affordable Fiio KA11 with SGM op-amp and Savitech bridge.
• OK, I finished talking nonsense, thanks again!

Were the Meizu pro and Ugreen with opa1622 using the CS43131(DAC + Amp) or the CS43198 (DAC-only)?

I believe the Meizu Pro has been discontinued. iIs the Ugreen still available? And what Ugreen model/number is it? Ugreen does not make things easy to find out which chip they use…

 

[staticV3]

Were the Meizu pro and Ugreen with opa1622 using the CS43131(DAC + Amp) or the CS43198 (DAC-only)?

Both used the cs43131.

iIs the Ugreen still available?

Doesn't look like it

And what Ugreen model/number is it?

Ugreen 80583 HiFi Audio Pro

 

[mc.god]

Were the Meizu pro and Ugreen with opa1622 using the CS43131(DAC + Amp) or the CS43198 (DAC-only)?

I believe the Meizu Pro has been discontinued. iIs the Ugreen still available? And what Ugreen model/number is it? Ugreen does not make things easy to find out which chip they use…

Both used CS43131, being essentially one the cone of the other, and bot discontinued long ago.
It was Ugreen HiFi Audio Pro, model number AV164, tested here: https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/ugreen-usb-dac/ which I own and wrote abut in some previous posts in this thread.

 

[mc.god]

Ugreen 80583 HiFi Audio Pro

Oh, yeah, @staticV3 unit have a different model number and I remember he said it doesn't support mic input like mine (and like the Meizu), so there is a bit of uncertainty on which model L7 reviewed, I can only say that package of mine is identical to the one in L7 photo.

 

[staticV3]

Oh, yeah, @staticV3 unit have a different model number and I remember he said it doesn't support mic input like mine (and like the Meizu), so there is a bit of uncertainty on which model L7 reviewed, I can only say that package of mine is identical to the one in L7 photo.

Seems to be the same product:


I'm still not sure why one has mic support and the other doesn't.