How good is a DSP?

[operation]

Hello everyone,

I would like to know your opinion on the improvement in sound quality I would get if I were to buy, for example, a Mini DSP Flex + Dirac license.

Currently, my setup includes:

• 2x Genelec 8040 and a Topping EX5.
• Room size 4m x 10m

Should I replace the EX5 with a Mini DSP Flex? Do you recommend any other alternatives?

Thank you

 

[OCA]

What's your source of music? If it's a PC of some sort, you don't need to pay for a DSP capable unit. Even a Rasperry Pi is multiple times more powerful than the best MiniDSP for room correction purposes.

 

[Multicore]

I have a Flex and am very happy with it but this doesn't answer your question.

You will also need a measurement microphone so you're facing a total of $800 expense. For what? Your speakers are fine so all you get is room eq.

Does the sound of your room bother you? If not, be thankful and keep your $800.

Or maybe you want to get on the audio science hobby, start by learning about rooms and their modes using REW. It has a room simulation feature which is quite educational and lots of documentation that can take you a long way down the road of this hobby. And it can teach you about the effects of positioning speakers in the room.

On the other hand, if your room modes are not bothering you now, do you want to learn to hear them?

Part of the audiophile hobby (not my hobby) is always wanting to upgrade things. Is that what you want?

 

[Multicore]

What's your source of music? If it's a PC of some sort, you don't need to pay for a DSP capable unit. Even a Rasperry Pi is multiple times more powerful than the best MiniDSP for room correction purposes.

That's true but it doesn't have Dirac (which OP asked about) and with the Flex the eq applies to all our sources including the RPi, turntable and videos, etc

 

[operation]

What's your source of music? If it's a PC of some sort, you don't need to pay for a DSP capable unit. Even a Rasperry Pi is multiple times more powerful than the best MiniDSP for room correction purposes.

My main source of music is through Bluetooth (LDAC). My system is in the living room connected to the TV through an optical cable, but my main goal is to achieve the best sound quality when I sit on the couch listening to music via Bluetooth.

I have a Flex and am very happy with it but this doesn't answer your question.

You will also need a measurement microphone so you're facing a total of $800 expense. For what? Your speakers are fine so all you get is room eq.

Does the sound of your room bother you? If not, be thankful and keep your $800.

Or maybe you want to get on the audio science hobby, start by learning about rooms and their modes using REW. It has a room simulation feature which is quite educational and lots of documentation that can take you a long way down the road of this hobby. And it can teach you about the effects of positioning speakers in the room.

On the other hand, if your room modes are not bothering you now, do you want to learn to hear them?

Part of the audiophile hobby (not my hobby) is always wanting to upgrade things. Is that what you want?

Since I live in Europe, I would need to spend around 1000€, which includes a MiniDSP, microphone, and Dirac license. It is a lot of money, which is why I would like to know if the improvement in sound quality would be noticeable.

I'm very happy with my current setup, but if I can make it better, why not? Additionally, in the future, I would like to add a subwoofer, and I was told that for that, I would definitely need a MiniDSP Flex.

 

[Keith_W]

Many people think that the most important aspect of DSP is the hardware. Not so! In order of importance, it is: (1) the user, (2) software, and finally ... (3) hardware. Good hardware only unlocks the potential for better sound. If you mess it up, and if the software is difficult to learn and allows you to make bad decisions ... the best hardware in the world isn't going to save you.

For this reason, I recommend beginners in DSP to choose something appropriate to their knowledge. MiniDSP is a great choice. It is easy to use, and the software is easy to learn. Many functions are automated. The manuals are online and well written. MiniDSP is not such a great tool if you have complex needs, but for what you want to do it will do the job very well.

 

[Multicore]

Since I live in Europe, I would need to spend around 1000€, which includes a MiniDSP, microphone, and Dirac license. It is a lot of money, which is why I would like to know if the improvement in sound quality would be noticeable.

I'm very happy with my current setup, but if I can make it better, why not? Additionally, in the future, I would like to add a subwoofer, and I was told that for that, I would definitely need a MiniDSP Flex.

Why not? You just answered that question: because it's a lot of money and you could spend that on subs.

 

[Absolute]

Is Dirac worth 1000€? No. Unless you plan to add subs with the additional outputs and need the flex for crossover duties, then there's no need to spend that amount on room eq alone.

For what it's worth, I have flex 8 with Dirac and found it better to just do near-field speaker correction/phase adjustment and manual room eq in the bass than letting Dirac do it for me. But it will depend on your room and set-up.

 

[OCA]

My main source of music is through Bluetooth (LDAC).

That leaves Flex as your best option for simple DSP but you can always experience with speaker placement and the dip switches to improve the overall sound and imaging before you make an investment.

 

[ZolaIII]

For beginners use Windows laptop or desktop paird with measurement microphone and REW with EQ-APO. That's enough for a simple 2.0 setup with any deacent enough stereo DAC. You have to read and learn but it's not a racket science. Of course it will apply to what you play from PC only and even so what isn't separate pathed (for various reasons, mostly DRM). Self stand DSP's operate to their I/O range (and to the DSP capabilities of course) on their own and more chenels you need it becomes from not so cheap and good offering to exotic and quiet expensive. Limiting factor for DSP's is how hard programing is more than hardware capability but usually in audio very old and outdated DSP designs are used (as I did assessments of high performance one's in the past). On the other hand most software is catching up on using general purpose CPU cores FPU units and that's the probable route of future development (a potent enough for the purpose SoC's adopted or entirely designed for audio use).

 

[Multicore]

For beginners use Windows laptop or desktop paird with measurement microphone and REW with EQ-APO.

Correct!

That's how to answer OP's question. Do that and you'll be able to listen to the difference that room eq makes and then you can decide if you want to invest in special devices to do it @operation

 

[terryforsythe]

Should I replace the EX5 with a Mini DSP Flex?

I replaced an old Adcom pre-amp with a MiniDSP SHD, and it made a significant improvement in my system.

One aspect of the improvement was use of Dirac Live to implement room compensation. This certainly improved sound quality in the room where I use the SHD.

On the other hand, I have another set of speakers in another room. In that room, room compensation doesn't seem to provide as big of an improvement in subjective listening.

(The other aspect of the improvement, and perhaps the biggest improvement, was the high level of control and granularity the MiniDSP SHD provides for subwoofer integration. But, since you did not mention a subwoofer, this may not be important to you.)

 

[operation]

That leaves Flex as your best option for simple DSP but you can always experience with speaker placement and the dip switches to improve the overall sound and imaging before you make an investment.

For beginners use Windows laptop or desktop paird with measurement microphone and REW with EQ-APO. That's enough for a simple 2.0 setup with any deacent enough stereo DAC. You have to read and learn but it's not a racket science. Of course it will apply to what you play from PC only and even so what isn't separate pathed (for various reasons, mostly DRM). Self stand DSP's operate to their I/O range (and to the DSP capabilities of course) on their own and more chenels you need it becomes from not so cheap and good offering to exotic and quiet expensive. Limiting factor for DSP's is how hard programing is more than hardware capability but usually in audio very old and outdated DSP designs are used (as I did assessments of high performance one's in the past). On the other hand most software is catching up on using general purpose CPU cores FPU units and that's the probable route of future development (a potent enough for the purpose SoC's adopted or entirely designed for audio use).

Correct!

That's how to answer OP's question. Do that and you'll be able to listen to the difference that room eq makes and then you can decide if you want to invest in special devices to do it @operation

I will do just that. I will try first with my PC and see if there is a big difference. Thank you.

However, I think in the end I will end up buying it because I would like in the future to get a subwoofer, and perhaps it is better to buy them in phases in order to avoid spending too much money all at once.

 

[Multicore]

However, I think in the end I will end up buying it because I would like in the future to get a subwoofer, and perhaps it is better to buy them in phases in order to avoid spending too much money all at once.

You might end up with something like a Flex to integrate subs but you might not need it. Choose a subs with XLR in/out and perhaps with adjustable high-pass filter. Your 8040s already have a lot of bass tilt and roll-off options. Careful use of these with your measurement mic, REW and positioning the speakers in the room, using the room simulation in REW to guide you, may be sufficient.

 

[RDoc]

I agree, first play with REW and a calibrated mic using the tone controls you have. REW is great but there is a learning curve and just some basic corrections to the room response can make a very real difference.

 

[Mhamilton1992]

I recently got an SHD and use it to feed an external DAC. I have already done a lot of room treatment with GIK panels at all first reflection points including the ceiling. The MiniDSP SHD and REW did decent job of sub integration but you must learn how to implement the filters manually and only let it do limited automated filters.
The real power of DIRAC is in the time domain room correction it does. After a couple of calibrations I found it really dramatically improved imaging focus and clarity.
I did not try the analog input yet.

 

[Stoutblock]

I use a SHD in my system with very good effect. In addition to digital sources I also have a lot of analog sources so the ADC in the SHD is mandatory for my use. I am a novice but know enough to be dangerous with REW so I found Dirac Live to be an exceptionally useful tool. I could get the PEQ setting close with just REW but phasing and timing was a bit over my head. Dirac Live pulled it all together nicely. DSP is probably the most enjoyable improvement I have made in my system for many years. I sense even more powerful DSP products in our audio future. The DAC in the SHD is totally adequate but I prefer a different external DAC so I use the digital out of the SHD rather than analog output. I wish miniDSP made a ADC-DSP-Dirac Live product without the streaming or DAC.

 

[Mhamilton1992]

I use a SHD in my system with very good effect. In addition to digital sources I also have a lot of analog sources so the ADC in the SHD is mandatory for my use. I am a novice but know enough to be dangerous with REW so I found Dirac Live to be an exceptionally useful tool. I could get the PEQ setting close with just REW but phasing and timing was a bit over my head. Dirac Live pulled it all together nicely. DSP is probably the most enjoyable improvement I have made in my system for many years. I sense even more powerful DSP products in our audio future. The DAC in the SHD is totally adequate but I prefer a different external DAC so I use the digital out of the SHD rather than analog output. I wish miniDSP made a ADC-DSP-Dirac Live product without the streaming or DAC.

I think MiniDSP is kind of in a tricky position market wise. There's a lot of good streamers and DACs out there and MiniDSP does not have a reputation for their analog quality and their user interfaced is not so great and there's no flashy large-screen display. Streaming probably does not add to the price. Any CPU that can do all the DSP can handle the stream. If they added a big touch screen display, that would be some significant cost.

MiniDSP's pricing is pretty compressed. A Flex, with Dirac is $700. SHD is $1300 with Dirac and go for $850 to $900 used (in my experience a used SHD is easier to find than Flex). An SHD that was more modular would be nice, but I suspect you would not really save much $. Maybe they'd price at $900 but probably would not get many sales.

For my setup I need one analog output to drive the Sub and I use external Benchmark DAC for for the mains.