Zero-emission vehicles, their batteries & subsidies/rebates for them.- No politics regarding the subsidies!

[Doodski]

If the car’s not too charged you can drive with one pedal 90% of the time. It feels more or less like really good engine braking on a manual. There are a couple presets the driver can choose, but it’s controlled from the throttle. One side effect is you use cruise control more because you can’t take your foot off and cruise.

Neat. So by modulating the throttle the braking effect can be modulated too... That seems pretty good for the operation of any vehicle. Like a jake brake.

 

[Doodski]

Then there is a separate paddle on the steering wheel - "max regen"

I was wondering about that. I had to take a cab home and he was fiddling with some paddle on the steering wheel assembly. It would require a little practice but would be instinctual after a short while I think.

 

[Inner Space]

I was wondering about that. I had to take a cab home and he was fiddling with some paddle on the steering wheel assembly. It would require a little practice but would be instinctual after a short while I think.

It gets to be second nature very quickly. And don't underestimate the appeal of the one-pedal thing - it gives such fluidity that you can slice through four-dimensional situations like traffic circles with total precision. Seriously, even if there weren't other good reasons, I would have an EV anyway, just for that. Perfect for traffic.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I recently read that using superchargers reduce battery life. Fast charging causes heat and that kills batteries.

It can, but some of the articles on long mileage Teslas were those used as taxis and run totally off supercharging. Yet they lasted 175-200 kmiles on average.

 

[Doodski]

It gets to be second nature very quickly. And don't underestimate the appeal of the one-pedal thing - it gives such fluidity that you can slice through four-dimensional situations like traffic circles with total precision. Seriously, even if there weren't other good reasons, I would have an EV anyway, just for that. Perfect for traffic.

Cool. Making me want try one. If there is even stock available. I might ask a dealer for a test drive to check it out. The last time I went past a area with lots of car dealers the lots where near empty. Shocking actually.

 

[andrewjohn007]

If you can get juice for free, that's nice. Maybe we need to have a few beers together. I'm walking distance from the Galleria.Is the

Anytime! Is the Railyard serving again? I used to live across the street from MicroCenter... The happy times. Then the bastards moved...

PM me and we can plan some low key local debauchery like the old days

 

[A Surfer]

I guess. I’ve never timed it. It wasn’t an issue for us in the old house and isn’t here.

But also you basically never do 100% unless you’re going on a road trip. The battery manager prefers topping out at I think 80%.

Apparently with Lithium batteries you should stay within the range between 20 and 80% charge for longevity reasons. I once found a good web site where this was discussed. Battery Science I think?

 

[A Surfer]

I recently read that using superchargers reduce battery life. Fast charging causes heat and that kills batteries.

Yes. And that is interesting as the trend has been towards fast charging on phones for so long. The batteries may last enough for most consumers who change their phone every two or three years, but behind the scene we are making more e-waste.

 

[Jim Matthews]

Did not have to waste energy converting hydrocarbon to electricity to lose in transport, to then drive the car.

[/QUOTE]
Gasoline powered cars waste a minimum of 70% of the available energy in a given unit of gasoline.

FOTW #1044, August 27, 2018: 12-30% of Energy Put into a Conventional Car is Used to Move the Car Down the Road

Not all of the fuel that is put into a car's fuel tank is used to move the car down the road.

www.energy.gov

EVs are approaching 100% efficiency with regenerative braking.

Where the Energy Goes: Electric Cars

EVs are 60% to 73% efficient, depending upon drive cycle (77% to 100% efficient if the energy recaptured from regenerative braking is counted).

www.fueleconomy.gov

The quickest and cheapest way to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is to fix the leaks in the natural gas lines. I am a believer of taking the low hanging fruit first. Not political grandstanding enough or sexy enough though.

The low hanging fruit is flared off at well heads and leaking through windows that don't seal. Keep in mind that the incentive for an energy company is to use (and sell) more power.

Energy saving made easy: Pluck low hanging fruit

Learn about the most direct ways to improve energy efficiency in the structures we design, and pitfalls to avoid.

www.aia.org

So I let those who want to fool with them do so. I might even replace my push mower with a Kobalt ( Swapped almost all my gas yard tools for battery) They work. They always start. I can recharge them. They don't stink up the garage. Some irony though, I have to keep my gas generator for when the power goes out.

Same goes for EVs - mine is charged off a standard 200a service.
It has all the energy demands (and personality) of a large toaster.

 

[David Harper]

When I went shopping for a new civic a couple years ago I drove a CVT and hated it. It feels like the engine is not directly connected to the wheels.
The revs go up and down as the trans hunts for the right ratio. It feels like a slipping clutch. Also there's an annoying delay between the time you step on it and the time it actually takes off. I almost left the honda dealer to go and drive a Mazda 3. But before I left the dealer gave me a six speed stick to drive. Holy sh!t talk about a better driving experience!!! I loved the stick ! It feels faster and much more responsive. You can peel rubber with it (not that I want to) which was impossible with the CVT. When you downshift and step on it the response is instantaneous. I went home with a new civic coupe with the six MT. Love this car! And it gets 40mpg on the highway which is better than some hybrids.

 

[Old Listener]

For me and my wife, a package of rooftop solar, storage battery capacity and an electric car makes sense. in terms of functionality. However, it has not made sense economically.

If VW had imported the ID.3 hatchback, we might have taken the plunge by now. Such a car would care of our routine daily driving.

We'll still need a car powered car for this car trips to areas well away from charging stations.

 

[Ron Texas]

@Jim Matthews it appears to me that you are making some assumptions about where the energy to charge and build EV's come from. While we may get to the world of limitless clean energy some day, we aren't there now and it's a long way off. The energy to mine and process lithium comes mostly from coal. The energy to charge an EV comes mostly from fossil fuels. There are losses in generation, transmission and battery storage.

 

[JeffS7444]

Why are current EVs so heavy, and are there any developments on the horizon which would make for lightweight vehicles which still offer decent comfort, safety and performance?

 

[Blumlein 88]

Why are current EVs so heavy, and are there any developments on the horizon which would make for lightweight vehicles which still offer decent comfort, safety and performance?

Batteries are heavy.

 

[mhardy6647]

That would require some serious electron flow for 50% in 5 minutes in a domestic situation. I imagine there is a tight race on to get there, capitalize and collect the rewards.

Yeah -- there seems to be some blissful (or willful) ignorance of thermodynamics* when it comes to the more sanguine perspectives on EVs.
Mind you, I am a fan** -- but those danged laws of thermodynamics have proven to be pretty inflexible and unsympathetic of our schemes to get really high efficiency and/or perpetual motion.

__________________
* heh, and electrochemistry, too.
** Of EVs and of thermodynamics.

 

[Willem]

I agree that the environmental potential of electric cars is limited by the supply of green electricity. However, that is rapidly changing. Here in the Netherlands many people have solar panels, and those can supply a car's electricity for about half the year (it is too dark in the other half). In that sense electrical cars are a nice way to cream off the excess home supply of electrical energy from solar panels in the summer. In the winter months that electrical energy will still have to come from the grid, preferably from wind turbines, of which many are being built at the moment. Our grid is relatively robust compared to many other countries, but big investments are obviously necessary and on their way. This also involves larger capacity for international exchange to even out supplies from different countries with different weather conditions. Thus far, the grid can more or less cope, and there are 80k public charging stations, and 350 of those are for fast charging. For individual consumers, given the available infrastructure, and given our high prices for gasoline, electrical propulsion is already feasible and economical, and will be increasingly so, with resale prices of diesel cars already plummeting.

 

[Doodski]

Why are current EVs so heavy, and are there any developments on the horizon which would make for lightweight vehicles which still offer decent comfort, safety and performance?

Panasonic is releasing a new battery in the next year that is supposed to have a big improvement in the total amount of charge. Perhaps fewer cells could be used or use the same amount and get longer range.

"Panasonic, which revealed a prototype of its new 4680 battery cell. Automotive News reports that the advanced-technology battery is due to power future Teslas, saying the 4680 batteries will have five times the storage capacity of current Tesla battery packs and will cost 50 percent less to build."

 

[Timcognito]

The energy to charge an EV comes mostly from fossil fuels.

Mine comes from my roof

 

[Timcognito]

Workers survey. Workers drill and build pipelines and storage depots for crude oil. Crude oil is loaded on to large ships which then move it often thousands of miles and unload to refineries. Energy is expended to refine it to gas and diesel that is stored. Trucks and drivers take it to gas stations in tens of thousands of locations whose owners/employees store it and sell it. Solar and wind energy that gets generated at the central plant and delivered to though existing ubiquitous power lines to point of use or battery storage is for more efficient. With all the steps, cost and middlemen taking their share that would be eliminated with in fossil fuels, it just makes so much sense to go electric for cars. And of course burning oil and coal are killing the planet. It is still better to have point sources for generation of electricity where pollution can be mitigated even with fossil fuels.

 

[acetogen]

@Jim Matthews it appears to me that you are making some assumptions about where the energy to charge and build EV's come from. While we may get to the world of limitless clean energy some day, we aren't there now and it's a long way off. The energy to mine and process lithium comes mostly from coal. The energy to charge an EV comes mostly from fossil fuels. There are losses in generation, transmission and battery storage.

You are talking about a global energy balance on mostly clean energy, which might never happen or it is far away in the future. In the short term countries that do not produce either cars or petroleum (which are the majority btw) will reduce their own footprint since they won't have to burn coal or consume gasoline for personal transportation. The energy to power the cars would come from hydroelectric, solar, wind, etc. Add to that the benefit of not having to import gasoline from rogue nations (Venezuela, Nigeria).