JBL 4309 Review (Speaker)

[rebbiputzmaker]

I don't want to be seen as being negative or "know it all", but that video review was worthless. There is so much wrong with ANY and ALL subjective reviews and "listening impressions" that we could write a book on it or at the very least a good pamphlet! The problem is that he (plus everyone) listens in their own room. This is huge. Every room will make the speakers sound different. What if they have a highly reflective room that makes the speakers sound screeching? So his impression and listening tests are really not valid for a consumer unless there is a real serious problem that stands out above everything else.

I say that to say that there is a reason that Amir gives his subjective reviews the way he does. We get full and fairly exhaustive testing. Then he throws in a quick and SHORT listening review as he knows that what he hears at home is different than what others will hear at home. He also is usually addressing some findings in the testing. There is no need for him to go on and on about his listening. He will some times say he really enjoyed the speakers and they sounded fantastic, or he might say they were shrill or lacked bass etc. This just lets the consumers on ASR know what he heard but again, they then have to see if the test in its entirety makes it a speaker that they want to listen to or buy. It is like a very rough guide. The testing is not rough as it is exact but the subjective listening is a rough guide and only that. Amir does a tremendous job at giving buyers today more information than has EVER been available in the history of home audio. He is out front and giving us information that used to unavailable, even to the manufacturers (years ago). So, do not be too swayed with "online" reviews' 98% of them are useless. Other than a very rough idea, they are not worth a nickel. I hope I explained why people on this site do not get swayed over subjective reviews as much as most people. If you have read this far, thank you and if I made it as clear as mud I apologize!

What are your feelings about the manufacturers and their relationship to online reviews? What about audio stores people can also go and listen if they live nearby? Nowadays just about every manufacturer/store offers trials and or returns. If all the reviews are just about worthless are manufacturers contributory In this? Are they being bad actors when trying to sell their products this way? Or should one be just be smart enough to take in all info and do their best to make their own decision. And even after all that you can get the product home and listen to it and not be happy and return it no harm no foul. Isn’t this just part of our current global economy and something that we just have to learn to utilize to our benefit and not necessarily totally ignore but learn what might be useful from it.

 

[rmsanger]

Hell to the nah for me

 

[ROOSKIE]

Have my pair in hand, they arrived today.
Was hosting a little b-day gathering for a friend so no chance to listen tonight.
I did open them up.
Both my GF and I approve highly of the build quality and look.
Very cool looking in person.
We love them looks wise. (mine are black as pictured here)
Very "American performance", think a black or dark grey Mustang 5.0 or maybe certain Corvettes.
Build quality is very, very solid and completely commensurate with the $2k price.
They feel as if carved out of steel or concrete. Truly they feel premium (in that "American" way, don't even think "Italian") not budget in any way, I have handled many, many speakers.
Based on looks and apparent build quality I am very happy. 10/10 so far.
I will pull a woofer and look around under the hood, maybe run the DATS3 on the woofer for fun.

After a week or so I will post my subjective experiences of fully sighted listening (except when I listen in the dark or close my eyes & yes I wish I could do a proper blind test, this will not be that at all. I will know what speaker is playing the entire time.) in a separate post and link to it here.
Folks who have no interest in subjective stories stay clear of that post, it is only for fun. Seriously, I already know what you have to say so a pre-thanks for saying nothing.
I will try to steer clear of any insane subjective ranting and just have a little fun talking shop and geeking.
Because the SONY SS-CS5 was "compared" with this speaker here in multiple posts I will dust off my pair and spin them both. I have used that speaker several times in some other testing I did.
I will also "compare" the 4309 to my summer kit build of the Joseph Crowe 1159 for more fun.

For those who are wondering if the 4309 is a sort of Ford Mustang 5.0 in vibe, what is the SONY SS-CS5? Definitely a NOT a performance car! They are that old dented Toyota Yaris I rented on mangers special for a bit less than $6 a day in Denver a couple years ago. Black and crappy and yet it got me and my GF where were we going on a 5 day weekend for essentially free.

 

[Tom C]

Very much looking forward to this.
What amp will you be using? I mean, this speaker will accept lots of juice, right? Much more than the Sony, I would expect just based on price.

 

[beefkabob]

Very "American performance", think a black or dark grey Mustang 5.0 or maybe certain Corvettes.

That's a perfect description of them! I hope you have room correction.

 

[Jim Shaw]

It is the other way around. We are not talking about music enjoyment. We are talking about what makes good content for testing speakers. Such content needs to be broadband and have constant spectrum. These then enable you to make changes and notice their effect immediately. With music that varies a lot, you have to rewind to the same point which is not as practical. And lack of full spectrum reduces the effectiveness of such content.

All of this has been researched. Read this article of mine: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sic-tracks-for-speaker-and-room-eq-testing.6/

And pay attention to this graph:

Notice how piano is forth from the bottom. The top music track is Female Pop Rock and hence the reason I start all of my testing with female tracks.

Piano can be great in hearing speed variations but we are past that in digital domain.

Seems reasonable. Just because I tend to judge playback system performance based on classical, symphonic, jazz, and solo piano doesn't mean it's the end-all for a broad range of judges. And, as a once-upon-a-time gofer to a highly respected recording engineer, I can testify to how one can substantially change the timbre of a female voice by rotating a U67 just 3 degrees on its axis.

 

[Spocko]

@amirm Looking only at your measurements, those gross peaks and valleys between 1kHz and 2kHz would worry me... a lot. I listen to a great deal of classical and solo piano recordings. That uneven range includes at least a dozen piano fundamental notes, not to mention important overtones of a couple of dozen other keys.

Q: Do you listen to solo piano music (a la Steinway, etc.) in your subjective reviews?

I'm wondering, as a consumer in this modern age of "testing products at home", would you seriously consider buying a speaker like the JBL 4309 to try at home to see if it sounds better than it looks on paper? A kind of rhetorical question that really applies to all of us as consumers as more and more brick and mortar stores close leaving us with little choice but to trust measurements and subjective reviews.

 

[Spocko]

It is the other way around. We are not talking about music enjoyment. We are talking about what makes good content for testing speakers. Such content needs to be broadband and have constant spectrum. These then enable you to make changes and notice their effect immediately. With music that varies a lot, you have to rewind to the same point which is not as practical. And lack of full spectrum reduces the effectiveness of such content.

All of this has been researched. Read this article of mine: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...sic-tracks-for-speaker-and-room-eq-testing.6/

And pay attention to this graph:

Notice how piano is forth from the bottom. The top music track is Female Pop Rock and hence the reason I start all of my testing with female tracks.

Piano can be great in hearing speed variations but we are past that in digital domain.

Female pop rock! Would this include the Go-Gos, Bangles and Taylor Swift? Because I can seriously enjoy listening to these guilty pleasures at the end of the day. There are only so many times I can listen to Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies (apparently required repertoire for reviewers)!

PS. Would the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever count as "female pop rock" because of Andy Gibb's falsetto style?

 

[Spocko]

Very good points! I'm still agnostic as to whether piano pieces function well as test tracks. The simple reason is that all pianos sound different, for the reasons you outline, and the inherently physical/analog/living nature of the piano as a wooden instrument. This makes it a challenge to transfer the sound of an individual piano to a recording. But then it also becomes difficult to know how the recording of a piano should sound like. If I hear something which seems slightly off, how do I know whether it's the loudspeaker or the recorded piano itself which was off? Some defaults may be obvious, but when it comes to timbre and attack etc, it may be harder to say.

If I recorded my own piano in my own living room (a concert upright from Schimmel I bought from a retired opera singer, if anyone's curious), and became well-acquainted with this recording and how it related to the actual non-recorded sound of my piano in my room, I think that could function well as a test track for me. But would it be a good test track for other people?

Safe to say this applies to many plucked/hammered string instruments as their sustain, tonal character and audible information are so unique to the design/materials used and of course, the microphone that records it. I love my acoustic guitar but for certain everything I hear from my guitar is not fully captured when I listen to similar music played from a recording (by much better guitarists with much better guitars!). I can feel the vibrations of the guitar body as I strum bass lines - my fingers feel a different dimension of sound that complement my ears so that "hearing myself" play an instrument is totally different than listening to it played live through a PA and different yet again when hearing it played live sitting 5 feet away with no amplification.

 

[Spocko]

When I click like more twice, you don't get two likes. It just unlikes. Unfair!

I went 20+ years without upgrading. I did my homework this time and ended up with an awesome but not perfect system. Wife was willing to let me go with a full benchmark stack, but I don't need perfect. I just want excellent.

I don't see myself following that same audiophile upgrade fever. I'd rather just get a new car every few years.

I'm with you and exactly where you are today with my first Benchmark AHB2 and zero desire to swap it out.
I love that you said "awesome but not perfect" - how much more perfect can something be if it cannot bring more satisfaction and happiness? More bass? LOL

 

[sully45]

I recall some on ASR didn't react super positively to the HTM12 when it was posted, but I think its worth a second look next to this. If you include the woofer resonance fixes which Matt has been investigating, I think the HTM-12 has more to offer.

• Comparable-Improved response linearity (depending on fixes I mentioned), Less bass though, HTM12 needs a sub
• Improved sensitivity
• Improved directivity
• Comparable distortion figures
• * Price... maybe? ~800 usd + value of your time to assemble + Cost of subs

I suppose for studio monitor use the HTM12 would be terrible for nearfield (driver-driver distance)

I'm just sitting here waiting for HTM12 V3 with active DSP amplification I guess.

 

[Spocko]

it's important to keep in mind that Geddes was referencing harmonic linear distortion, that means the driver is still within linear excursion.

compression usually happens when the driver runs out of linear excursion and still is asked to produce louder volumes. since the distortion is neither harmonic or linear at that point these comments no longer apply.

Agreed, I was just positing that listening for one flaw does not allow you to hear the other. So while you look for compression/distortion, you can no longer hear the harmonic linear distortion issues that could've been a deal breaker when it was audible at lower volumes.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

I'm wondering, as a consumer in this modern age of "testing products at home", would you seriously consider buying a speaker like the JBL 4309 to try at home to see if it sounds better than it looks on paper? A kind of rhetorical question that really applies to all of us as consumers as more and more brick and mortar stores close leaving us with little choice but to trust measurements and subjective reviews.

Well that’s a good question but you probably still might want to listen yourself because even with all this information your room can affect your system sound. Your taste and sensibilities also do matter ultimately.

 

[ROOSKIE]

I'm wondering, as a consumer in this modern age of "testing products at home", would you seriously consider buying a speaker like the JBL 4309 to try at home to see if it sounds better than it looks on paper? A kind of rhetorical question that really applies to all of us as consumers as more and more brick and mortar stores close leaving us with little choice but to trust measurements and subjective reviews.

More later, for now - Yes. These speakers deserve to be listened to. Initial impressions are good.
I have 1hr on them and am already planning to spend the whole evening. My GF wants in as well.
As far the looks go on paper. So many people just don't seem to understand a lot of the data. I understand that as it is actually pretty complex. As a hobbyist and I am no final word in any conversation although man it gets hard figure out what to let slide and what to address.
Anyway getting exited to write up my "review" after much more testing.

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Female pop rock! Would this include the Go-Gos, Bangles and Taylor Swift? Because I can seriously enjoy listening to these guilty pleasures at the end of the day. There are only so many times I can listen to Trinity Sessions by the Cowboy Junkies (apparently required repertoire for reviewers)!

PS. Would the Bee Gees' Saturday Night Fever count as "female pop rock" because of Andy Gibb's falsetto style?

True sometimes the reviewer records are really not that good. There are plenty of other records that you can find that would fit the bill. Even better now with lossless streaming there is an endless list of good candidates that can be useful for critical listening. Clean, hopefully not over compressed with minimal processing and simple miking are often good candidates for critical listening and evaluation. One example is the Weavers at Carnegie Hall, a classic.

 

[beefkabob]

Agreed, I was just positing that listening for one flaw does not allow you to hear the other. So while you look for compression/distortion, you can no longer hear the harmonic linear distortion issues that could've been a deal breaker when it was audible at lower volumes.

I have an SVS PB16. I had the stereo turned down to -22.5db for the last movie I saw. That's when everything in the room stopped vibrating. I do not lack in bass, at least not in the main listening position.

 

[jhaider]

Seems reasonable. Just because I tend to judge playback system performance based on classical, symphonic, jazz, and solo piano doesn't mean it's the end-all for a broad range of judges. And, as a once-upon-a-time gofer to a highly respected recording engineer, I can testify to how one can substantially change the timbre of a female voice by rotating a U67 just 3 degrees on its axis.

In another vein altogether, what’s the speaker with the 4” (?) Tannoy coax?

 

[tomtoo]

@amirm
Could you add the voting for this speaker? Would be very interesting.

 

[ROOSKIE]

Still have to write up my take on these speakers.
I just bought a house and it needs some work before I move so I am real busy.
I can say that the new "What HiFi", subjective review pretty much mirrors my take. I know that publication can be absolutely infuriating. That said they nailed this pair. Only thing I'd say I find the bass to be very detailed vs their opinion of it.
Anyway read it and weap for many reasons.

JBL 4309 review

Want a high-octane musical experience? Give these JBLs a go

www.whathifi.com

 

[rebbiputzmaker]

Still have to write up my take on these speakers.
I just bought a house and it needs some work before I move so I am real busy.
I can say that the new "What HiFi", subjective review pretty much mirrors my take. I know that publication can be absolutely infuriating. That said they nailed this pair. Only thing I'd say I find the bass to be very detailed vs their opinion of it.
Anyway read it and weap for many reasons.

JBL 4309 review

Want a high-octane musical experience? Give these JBLs a go

www.whathifi.com

Interesting. Do you still have the A130s?

I’ve been doing a good amount of listening to the A130s and with the EQ posted by Presently42 I find them seriously good. The harshness that you and others noticed I feel is more a mid and not a tweeter issue. The eq he posted does a good job imo cleaning up the response. Sans maybe 10Hz on the bottom imo they will not be embarrassed when compared to the 4309s.