Time resolution of Redbook (16/44) PCM

[DonH56]

DSD in the form of SACDs comes in virtually every music genre. Not sure what advantages over Red Book CDs you anticipate; the advantages I have heard is more (if not all) from the mixing, mastering, and additional channels and not additional resolution (in time or amplitude).

SNR vs. bits: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/digital-audio-sampling-101.1919/

Aperture time: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/digital-audio-jitter-fundamentals.1922/

Noise shaping changes the picture significantly, see e.g. https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...igma-delta-digital-audio-converters-dac.1928/

HTH - Don

 

[audio2design]

Anyone else here love DSD and want it desperately to be better than redbook, especially in the time domain?

I know I am!

(but I still love you redbook, even if DSD is better)

Better how?

 

[Music1969]

Yes - so far I know, so many times I've heard that it so.
So I'm still morbidly curious just what music is available in the format. I suspect that it's only old Rock classics or Classical.

There's a bit available for purchase but still doesn't change that majority mixed in DXD

https://www.nativedsd.com/catalogue/

 

[Stereo Skunk]

Most DSD available for purchase has been mixed in DXD, no?

no

 

[Stereo Skunk]

Better how?

DSD sounds smoother. I prefer DSD128 to DXD.

 

[voodooless]

the advantages I have heard is more (if not all) from the mixing, mastering, and additional channels and not additional resolution (in time or amplitude).

How can mixing and mastering in DSD be an advantage.. it’s impossible.. to do any editing other than just a plain cut, you’ll need to convert to a multibit format first.

 

[Music1969]

DSD sounds smoother. I prefer DSD128 to DXD.

What DSD DAC you use?

 

[Stereo Skunk]

How can mixing and mastering in DSD be an advantage.. it’s impossible.. to do any editing other than just a plain cut, you’ll need to convert to a multibit format first.

the mixing and mastering in DSD is an advantage because it forces artists and recording engineers to get it right the first time.

 

[Stereo Skunk]

What DSD DAC you use?

i tried it on my QA361, but i'm looking forward to trying some native DSD desktop DACs.

 

[voodooless]

the mixing and mastering in DSD is an advantage because it forces artists and recording engineers to get it right the first time.

How it that an advantage? Very few modern music is even possible to do in a single take.. some play multiple instruments on a single track, what about sound effects, etc? This might work for orchestral or live recordings, but not for much else. And even those take sound from various sources and mix those together.

 

[mansr]

to do any editing other than just a plain cut

And even that is non-trivial.

 

[Stereo Skunk]

How it that an advantage? Very few modern music is even possible to do in a single take.. some play multiple instruments on a single track, what about sound effects, etc? This might work for orchestral or live recordings, but not for much else. And even those take sound from various sources and mix those together.

ok so to be fair this was said as a bit of a joke

actually it places a lot of stress on the artist and mixing engineers to get the performance, mic placement, and mixing done in the analog domain before ever digitizing into DSD.

BUT. If we can forgive a few minor mistakes (if we even notice them) in the performance, what we get is a real acoustic space with real musicians playing in real time within earshot of eachother with, if not minimal, purposeful micing.

Can't we all agree that this is beautiful? Or at least refreshing in this day and age of computer music. (which I like too, btw)

 

[Music1969]

i tried it on my QA361

Your AKM chip in there doesn't even have the 'DSD Direct' feature that some DACs like RME ADI-2 DAC feature, so your DSD gets PCM'ed ??

RME ADI-2's AKM chip (see the volume bypass path, skipping the modulator):

but i'm looking forward to trying some native DSD desktop DACs.

No worries, which ones you considering?

 

[Stereo Skunk]

Your AKM chip in there doesn't even have the 'DSD Direct' feature that some DACs like RME ADI-2 DAC feature, so your DSD gets PCM'ed ??

View attachment 148247


RME ADI-2's AKM chip (see the volume bypass path, skipping the modulator):

View attachment 148248




No worries, which ones you considering?

Indeed it doesn't have that volume bypass on the latest chips. BUT. what on earth does a delta sigma modulator do with DSD data? Maybe it just modulates it lol. And yes, theres for sure digital volume control on the QA361, but I did try it also with the LO. No, I didn't try to blind A/B test myself. But forgive a guy for wanting to believe in santa claus to get himself through stressful parts of his life.

Regarding native DSD, I guess most of the well-measuring Topping budget DACs look nice. Of course it'd be great to get a DAC from either Meitner or Koch, but OUCH $$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Blumlein 88]

How can mixing and mastering in DSD be an advantage.. it’s impossible.. to do any editing other than just a plain cut, you’ll need to convert to a multibit format first.

I don't think he means mixing and mastering in DSD. I think he means they use a differently mixed and differently mastered source to make the DSD. Hence DSD might sound better, but the reason is the improved mix and mastering vs CD.

 

[Katji]

maybe you're just morbidly obese

No, morbidly thin.

But I still want to know about the music. Is it Classical, or Jazz, or Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and so on?

You mentioned mic and analog ...which does not often apply to electronic dance genres. Just sometimes to Electronic. When it's an actual release, including the CD option,I've never looked to see whether DSD/DXD is mentioned...it seems unlikely.

 

[voodooless]

Indeed it doesn't have that volume bypass on the latest chips. BUT. what on earth does a delta sigma modulator do with DSD data?

Nothing! It’s converted to PCM first. The DSD direct AKM DAC’s can bypass the modulator and PCM conversion.

 

[Katji]

[...]But forgive a guy for wanting to believe in santa claus to get himself through stressful parts of his life.

It's good you say "want to believe", because that's half the problem with audiophiles - or whatever they are.

 

[Stereo Skunk]

No, morbidly thin.

But I still want to know about the music. Is it Classical, or Jazz, or Dire Straits, Pink Floyd and so on?

You mentioned mic and analog ...which does not often apply to electronic dance genres. Just sometimes to Electronic. When it's an actual release, including the CD option,I've never looked to see whether DSD/DXD is mentioned...it seems unlikely.

giving away my secrets here but

psst

https://www.nativedsd.com/product-tag/pure-dsd/

Hunnia Records and Eudora Records are two that I know of so far that do native DSD recording.

Then there are analog tape-assisted labels like Blue Coast Records, whom I hope to buy some music from (but it's a bit pricey).

DSD from PCM just isn't the same. I WANT MY NATIVE DSD.

 

[Katji]

There's a bit available for purchase but still doesn't change that majority mixed in DXD

https://www.nativedsd.com/catalogue/

wow, Quite extensive, the list of genres. But I tried Soul and it came up with 1 only.