Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

[buxtehude]

Yes, I believe so, but they are also a reason to wait on your products to see what develops. It's a hassle to your customers, you have to understand that. The important thing is that this is not something I would ever say about a RME product.

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=31545
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29667
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27870
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29856

This is why I decided not to purchase RME ADI 2

 

[spartaman64]

Didn't the L30 ruin some headphones for instance? Or the E30 have its polarity be inverted? Should I go on? Amir has had that qualifier in his reviews long before those recent components.

Don't get me wrong, I support you guys and how you are changing the landscape. And indeed I own some products (that Apos has been kind enough to exchange for revised versions). But get it together.

schiit in the past also had some amps that go up in smoke and break headphones. also they had a problem with their chassis not being properly grounded etc. shit happens no pun intended

 

[ShiZo]

THD+N versus frequency being different with the different filters is perplexing me. I prefer a linear sharp filter, I believe that is mode 3, fast roll off linear. Will ultrasonics affect my listening experience if I choose this filter?

How do ultrasonics affect the results across 0hz-22khz?

 

[JohnYang1997]

THD+N versus frequency being different with the different filters is perplexing me. I prefer a linear sharp filter, I believe that is mode 3, fast roll off linear. Will ultrasonics affect my listening experience if I choose this filter?

How do ultrasonics affect the results across 0hz-22khz?

I cannot tell these filters apart.
I recommend default filter 3 which is minimum phase fast roll off. Filter 5 which is linear phase fasr roll off is ok too.
If you want a "correct" filter, filter 7 with a bit top end roll off is probably the best to go.

 

[Billy Budapest]

Better Source - https://soundnews.net/sources/dacs/gustard-x26-pro-dac-review/

That reviewer needs to go back to J-school. Oh wait, he probably never went to one because he obviously did not do any fact checking. Namely:

1). The reviewer states that the signal path circuitry contains only discrete devices and no “cheap opamps,” but just by looking at the photographs of the circuit board you can see at least 31 opamps used in the output circuitry. That’s a good thing rather than a bad thing, but it makes the reviewer’s statement about discrete circuitry completely wrong;

2). The reviewer cites one or two measurements and guesses at a third, but nowhere reveals how those measurements were obtained. We don’t know if the reviewer ran measurements and what gear was used, or if the reviewer just lifted the measurements off of a press release or spec sheet.

Shoddy reporting to say the least.

 

[gvl]

I recommend default filter 3 which is minimum phase fast roll off. Filter 5 which is linear phase fasr roll off is ok too.

Any particular reason for prefering minimum over linear? I too can't tell any difference between ESS filters.

 

[GWolfman]

@JohnYang1997 Any plans for including DSP in any of your products (like this one), or stand alone?

 

[gvl]

Yes, I believe so, but they are also a reason to wait on your products to see what develops. It's a hassle to your customers, you have to understand that. The important thing is that this is not something I would ever say about a RME product.

While true I think we should cut some slack to Topping here. They are a smaller operation with less resources and shorter time to market product development. Product performance is there, value is generally there, customer service is sort if there, resale value is good thanks to ASR. All in all not too shabby.

 

[JohnYang1997]

That reviewer needs to go back to J-school. Oh wait, he probably never went to one because he obviously did not do any fact checking. Namely:

1). The reviewer states that the signal path circuitry contains only discrete devices and no “cheap opamps,” but just by looking at the photographs of the circuit board you can see at least 31 opamps used in the output circuitry. That’s a good thing rather than a bad thing, but it makes the reviewer’s statement about discrete circuitry completely wrong;

2). The reviewer cites one or two measurements and guesses at a third, but nowhere reveals how those measurements were obtained. We don’t know if the reviewer ran measurements and what gear was used, or if the reviewer just lifted the measurements off of a press release or spec sheet.

Shoddy reporting to say the least.

Hmm. I see 4 opamps for i/v, 2 for SE out, 2 for Vref.

 

[wannarock2]

s-l-o-w roll off filter guys. relax a little.

 

[restorer-john]

https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=31545
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29667
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=27870
https://forum.rme-audio.de/viewtopic.php?id=29856

This is why I decided not to purchase RME ADI 2

Fair enough decision. Clearly RME should specify a better quality rotary encoder, or better still, build their own.

That's what the better Japanese companies did back in the day. Optical encoders (no contact issues to worry about) with bespoke slit wheel, twin photo-interuptors and their own dedicated IC.

 

[ShiZo]

I cannot tell these filters apart.
I recommend default filter 3 which is minimum phase fast roll off. Filter 5 which is linear phase fasr roll off is ok too.
If you want a "correct" filter, filter 7 with a bit top end roll off is probably the best to go.

If I don't like any roll off, will the linear fast/sharp filter be fine? I just don't really understand thd+n vs frequency.

I get flat is better but why would ultrasonic noise make it rise in the 1-20khz area?

 

[slamman]

I made that decision after reading the reviews on the D90SE. And I promptly ordered the Gustard X26 Pro.... A friend brought over the X26 Pro last week and it had more Authority and 'Body' than my D90.

I already own the D90. It is a great DAC, but here is the 'deal' with the X26. From the Review:

"For the current to voltage conversion (I/V conversion stage), Gustard used only discrete components, not a single op-amp is found in its signal path. Its analog Low-Pass Filter (LPF) also uses only fully discrete components biased into Class-A. Again, no cheap op-amps are found in its signal path. This is a crucial part of any DAC, this is the reason it uses two toroidal transformers and this is why it dissipates so much heat."

i agree with this. i admire engineering and the gustard has more. i wont allow myself to be murdered in this thread for saying it can change sound but i prefer it in principle that and the fact that the certification on the topping seems forged according to the mispelling on the label? getting the best measurements isnt everything. but its impressive and i wouldnt take anything away from topping. except if the certification is false combined with the blowing headphones up fiasco 6 months ago it shows some electronic shortcuts. i wont make any solid acusations until there is proof but its enough for me to pick gustard.

 

[vkvedam]

I made that decision after reading the reviews on the D90SE. And I promptly ordered the Gustard X26 Pro.... A friend brought over the X26 Pro last week and it had more Authority and 'Body' than my D90.

I already own the D90. It is a great DAC, but here is the 'deal' with the X26. From the Review:

"For the current to voltage conversion (I/V conversion stage), Gustard used only discrete components, not a single op-amp is found in its signal path. Its analog Low-Pass Filter (LPF) also uses only fully discrete components biased into Class-A. Again, no cheap op-amps are found in its signal path. This is a crucial part of any DAC, this is the reason it uses two toroidal transformers and this is why it dissipates so much heat."

Interesting, my HiFi buddy believes the same that discrete components hand chosen will have superior quality over the op-amps

 

[JohnYang1997]

If I don't like any roll off, will the linear fast/sharp filter be fine? I just don't really understand thd+n vs frequency.

I get flat is better but why would ultrasonic noise make it rise in the 1-20khz area?

There's no distortion rising with 3 5 7 filter.

 

[ShiZo]

There's no distortion rising with 3 5 7 filter.

Phew, thank goodness, 5 would is my go to.

 

[JohnYang1997]

Phew, 5 would be my go to.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/the-new-king.21444/post-786882

 

[amirm]

@amirm Could you do a crosstalk measurement for the D90SE like Wolf did?

https://cdn.l7audiolab.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Crosstalk.jpg

Hard to know the test parameters from that graph but here is one that should be close:

 

[vkvedam]

That reviewer needs to go back to J-school. Oh wait, he probably never went to one because he obviously did not do any fact checking. Namely:

1). The reviewer states that the signal path circuitry contains only discrete devices and no “cheap opamps,” but just by looking at the photographs of the circuit board you can see at least 31 opamps used in the output circuitry. That’s a good thing rather than a bad thing, but it makes the reviewer’s statement about discrete circuitry completely wrong;

2). The reviewer cites one or two measurements and guesses at a third, but nowhere reveals how those measurements were obtained. We don’t know if the reviewer ran measurements and what gear was used, or if the reviewer just lifted the measurements off of a press release or spec sheet.

Shoddy reporting to say the least.

Sandhu is a subjectivist so just watch it for the fun of it. In fact he introduced me to a couple of gems.

 

[slamman]

Aren't those issues taken care of?
And these have nothing to do with quality control.

remember when headphones were blowing up from the l30 due to faulty design and or QC and you yourself went into head fi and blamed it on the customer and got triggered by the slightest negative comment and went off on people? no need to get into that here but no need to be snarky when someone points something out and saying "hasnt it been fixed?" isnt a correct answer to a customer stating problems. if its not a QC issue than it was an engineering issue which is worse. its ok to say "we fixed that issue and have made changes to it doesnt happen again" boom done. EDIT - i meant hifi guides.