Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC Review (Headphone)

[nerdoldnerdith]

nah, Daylight Robbery is what they are. Only aimed for rich snob audiophiles. Not for the common person.

Yes, these are aimed for people with a lot of money to spend. They are luxury items that nobody is saying the common person needs. That doesn't make them "robbery."

 

[MayaTlab]

That driver

Critical info in that article is that two different 1266 exhibited a similar problem (I wouldn't be surprised to learn that quite a few planar manufacturers have had a similar problem at some point).

 

[Robbo99999]

Yes, these are aimed for people with a lot of money to spend. They are luxury items that nobody is saying the common person needs. That doesn't make them "robbery."

Unfotunately (or fortunately) I don't think you can argue against $3000 cables, it's clear that this is nonsense & indeed robbery anyway you look at it. Cable influences are just not a thing, so it's clear robbery, now if they offered the cable at I dunno less than $100 then that could be construed to fit with the high price of the headphones.....and I'm more willing to accept a headphone that costs thousands of dollars, but a cable costing thousands of dollars is ridiculous. But ridiculous cable price aside, these headphones have a lot to live up to given their also ridiculously high price of $4995. I think the only thing that needs to be done is for Amir to measure the headphone with pads "just touching" the measurement device, as described by the owners & manufacturer as the recommended way to listen to these headphones (and also again doing the listening test as such)......in my eyes that's the only thing left to do before you do an open shut case of "shit headphone without EQ", "good headphone with EQ for it's spatial effects".....but even then it's not really possible to get over the cost of the headphone, but if stock & even EQ'd quality can increase with the recommended headphone placement then you're edging closer to respectability. This is yet to be seen, I hope Amir gives it a go measuring with the pads "just touching" to see where we're at.

 

[617]

Every headphone screw that is made, every headphone launched, every song played signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This audiophile manufacturer is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern abyss headphone is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a cable upgrade with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single replacement driver with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense.

Seriously though I think why products like these are so offensive to many is that many people take great effort in their craft, trying to make a living by delivering performance or excellence or beauty. It is extremely bothersome to see people who attain any standard of living by selling poorly engineered products by saying that they do things which they cannot do, and which the creators lack the expertise to deliver.

If you're in the business of trying to make something really good, the only thing more annoying that seeing someone make a living selling crap is seeing the people who buy it.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

Unfotunately (or fortunately) I don't think you can argue against $3000 cables, it's clear that this is nonsense & indeed robbery anyway you look at it. Cable influences are just not a thing, so it's clear robbery, now if they offered the cable at I dunno less than $100 then that could be construed to fit with the high price of the headphones.....and I'm more willing to accept a headphone that costs thousands of dollars, but a cable costing thousands of dollars is ridiculous. But ridiculous cable price aside, these headphones have a lot to live up to given their also ridiculously high price of $4995. I think the only thing that needs to be done is for Amir to measure the headphone with pads "just touching" the measurement device, as described by the owners & manufacturer as the recommended way to listen to these headphones......in my eyes that's the only thing left to do before you do an open shut case of "shit headphone without EQ", "good headphone with EQ for it's spatial effects".....but even then it's not really possible to get over the cost of the headphone, but if stock & even EQ'd quality can increase with the recommended headphone placement then you're edging closer to respectability. This is yet to be seen, I hope Amir gives it a go measuring with the pads "just touching" to see where we're at.

I am not defending the cables. Abyss is a company started by an audiophile who had a business selling expensive cables to other audiophiles. Abyss is a headphone company, and headphones are not snake oil. The important thing, however, is that the headphones are designed by that guy's son and he doesn't really have that much to do with it. His son is an engineer who takes the rational approach when it comes to designing the headphones. He has nothing to do with the cables. If I had to guess, the mixed messages coming from Abyss have to do with this internal disagreement within the company. The company is owned by a cable-peddling audiophile, while the headphones are designed and built by his son, who probably wants nothing to do with that side of the business because he knows it's a bunch of nonsense.

What's an even bigger load of nonsense, however, is people who have never so much as laid eyes on a pair of these headphones in real life telling someone like myself who owns a pair in addition to other better-measuring headphones that my ears are wrong because they looked at a few graphs on the internet.

For reference, I also own Revel Salon2's, Dutch&Dutch 8C's, Genelec 8351B's, all equalized to be ruler flat. I have also been a musician my entire life. I know what good sound is, and the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC sound really, really good.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

Every headphone screw that is made, every headphone launched, every song played signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

This audiophile manufacturer is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern abyss headphone is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a cable upgrade with a half-million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single replacement driver with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. . . . This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense.

Seriously though I think why products like these are so offensive to many is that many people take great effort in their craft, trying to make a living by delivering performance or excellence or beauty. It is extremely bothersome to see people who attain any standard of living by selling poorly engineered products by saying that they do things which they cannot do, and which the creators lack the expertise to deliver.

If you're in the business of trying to make something really good, the only thing more annoying that seeing someone make a living selling crap is seeing the people who buy it.

That's not how money works in the real world, I'm afraid.

 

[617]

That's not how money works in the real world, I'm afraid.

What's your favorite album to listen to on these? Any music they do well with in particular?

 

[Robbo99999]

I am not defending the cables. Abyss is a company started by an audiophile who had a business selling expensive cables to other audiophiles. Abyss is a headphone company, and headphones are not snake oil. The important thing, however, is that the headphones are designed by that guy's son and he doesn't really have that much to do with it. His son is an engineer who takes the rational approach when it comes to designing the headphones. He has nothing to do with the cables. If I had to guess, the mixed messages coming from Abyss have to do with this internal disagreement within the company. The company is owned by a cable-peddling audiophile, while the headphones are designed and built by his son, who probably wants nothing to do with that side of the business because he knows it's a bunch of nonsense.

What's an even bigger load of nonsense, however, is people who have never so much as laid eyes on a pair of these headphones in real life telling someone like myself who owns a pair in addition to other better-measuring headphones that my ears are wrong because they looked at a few graphs on the internet.

For reference, I also own Revel Salon2's, Dutch&Dutch 8C's, Genelec 8351B's, all equalized to be ruler flat. I have also been a musician my entire life. I know what good sound is, and the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC sound really, really good.

Well that's interesting, especially considering your background.....but to me the only thing left to gain some respectability is to measure the headphone "just touching" like has been said (and also the listening tests as such)....that's the only thing left to do else we're left with the current conclusions on this headphone. I have my doubts and I don't think it's a particularly reliable/practical way of wearing headphones in terms of a consistent sonic experience from one listening session to the next (because I imagine headphone placement issues will be exaggerated)....but it would be good to see Amir giving it a go with the recommended placements....it sounds like quite a lot of work to experiment on the correct "just touching" position which plays into my idea that it's not a reliable/practical way of wearing a headphone.....but we may see if Amir revisits the measurements & listening tests.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

What's your favorite album to listen to on these? Any music they do well with in particular?

https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00XTBSFRW?ref=dm_sh_cfb9-f85e-0a8d-5b27-51a35

I constantly come back to this because I love it so much. It has become my reference.

Any music will do. I prefer electronic music when I am listening to headphones.

I went ahead and listened to it with and without Amir's EQ. I can't decide whether I prefer it one way or the other, but I still think I prefer no EQ. The EQ makes things a bit shouty and gives a bit of bloat to the bass, but it does improve spaciousness a bit.

 

[617]

https://music.amazon.com/albums/B00XTBSFRW?ref=dm_sh_cfb9-f85e-0a8d-5b27-51a35

I constantly come back to this because I love it so much. It has become my reference.

Any music will do. I prefer electronic music when I am listening to headphones.

I went ahead and listened to it with and without Amir's EQ. I can't whether I prefer it one way or the other, but I still think I prefer no EQ. The EQ makes things a bit shouty and gives a bit of bloat to the bass, but it does improve spaciousness a bit.

I find that the EQs I've used on various headphones never do anything for me. It could be that they are not accurate. I do find bass adjustment works really well. I have an android app called Wavelet that lets you dial in a perfect bass boost.

I agree that electronic music in general does well on headphones, they tend to render rhythm better than most (not all) speakers. My problem with headphones is that they can do bass so well, but most of them drop off in the bass, making them sound more detailed. This is a shame.

Do you ever think you'll buy more headphones? It seems to me that one of the problems with expensive headphones is despite their cost, their portability encourages swapping in a way that speakers don't. I'd love to spend $$ on headphones but I think I'd want them to last 10 years.

This is a cool album by the way, we should really talk music more on ASR.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

I find that the EQs I've used on various headphones never do anything for me. It could be that they are not accurate. I do find bass adjustment works really well. I have an android app called Wavelet that lets you dial in a perfect bass boost.

I agree that electronic music in general does well on headphones, they tend to render rhythm better than most (not all) speakers. My problem with headphones is that they can do bass so well, but most of them drop off in the bass, making them sound more detailed. This is a shame.

Do you ever think you'll buy more headphones? It seems to me that one of the problems with expensive headphones is despite their cost, their portability encourages swapping in a way that speakers don't. I'd love to spend $$ on headphones but I think I'd want them to last 10 years.

This is a cool album by the way, we should really talk music more on ASR.

After getting the AB-1266 I don't really have the desire to buy another pair of headphones. I thought about getting a pair of electrostats, but then I'd have to buy a dedicated amplifier, and I know that I wouldn't be getting a very good bass response, which is a significant part of what makes the AB-1266 so good. Plus, I am listening to speakers more these days. Headphones sound great an all, but there is nothing that can compare with the immersion of a good Auro 3D 13.1 setup.

 

[amirm]

What's an even bigger load of nonsense, however, is people who have never so much as laid eyes on a pair of these headphones in real life telling someone like myself who owns a pair in addition to other better-measuring headphones that my ears are wrong because they looked at a few graphs on the internet.

For reference, I also own Revel Salon2's, Dutch&Dutch 8C's, Genelec 8351B's, all equalized to be ruler flat. I have also been a musician my entire life. I know what good sound is, and the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC sound really, really good.

These are not just some "graphs" on the Internet. You were given proper measurements together with controlled listening tests that verified what the measurements demonstrated. The measurements show that these headphones are not equalized flat. I outgun you on multiple fronts based on criteria you have above. Should I just then listen to a headphone and pass on judgement and tell you to pound sound if you don't agree?

We measure because even experienced listeners can get these things wrong. They give us an anchor for the listening tests to follow. That in an ad-hoc situation you liked them is neither here, nor there.

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

These are not just some "graphs" on the Internet. You were given proper measurements together with controlled listening tests that verified what the measurements demonstrated. The measurements show that these headphones are not equalized flat. I outgun you on multiple fronts based on criteria you have above. Should I just then listen to a headphone and pass on judgement and tell you to pound sound if you don't agree?

We measure because even experienced listeners can get these things wrong. They give us an anchor for the listening tests to follow. That in an ad-hoc situation you liked them is neither here, nor there.

I am not disputing your measurements or their validity. I have no problems with your review.

I am addressing the people who took these measurements and drew the conclusion that the headphones are crap and snake oil because they deviate slightly from a target curve, despite never listening to them themselves.

I am just tired of all the keyboard warriors drawing these far-reaching conclusions about something they've never heard and using your measurements to sully the reputations of solid companies that are just trying to make good products. Hating on Abyss has become a circlejerk on this forum, and almost of it is baseless and undeserved.

 

[_thelaughingman]

I am not defending the cables. Abyss is a company started by an audiophile who had a business selling expensive cables to other audiophiles. Abyss is a headphone company, and headphones are not snake oil. The important thing, however, is that the headphones are designed by that guy's son and he doesn't really have that much to do with it. His son is an engineer who takes the rational approach when it comes to designing the headphones. He has nothing to do with the cables. If I had to guess, the mixed messages coming from Abyss have to do with this internal disagreement within the company. The company is owned by a cable-peddling audiophile, while the headphones are designed and built by his son, who probably wants nothing to do with that side of the business because he knows it's a bunch of nonsense.

What's an even bigger load of nonsense, however, is people who have never so much as laid eyes on a pair of these headphones in real life telling someone like myself who owns a pair in addition to other better-measuring headphones that my ears are wrong because they looked at a few graphs on the internet.

For reference, I also own Revel Salon2's, Dutch&Dutch 8C's, Genelec 8351B's, all equalized to be ruler flat. I have also been a musician my entire life. I know what good sound is, and the Abyss AB-1266 Phi TC sound really, really good.

You using your "musician" background for justification of not believing in measurements sounds typical of subjectivist' that are too ingrained in beliefs that what you hear is the gold standard. Sounds to me like you're just justifying your expensive taste more than anything.

 

[direstraitsfan98]

For reference, I also own Revel Salon2's, Dutch&Dutch 8C's, Genelec 8351B's.

Nice can I see please

 

[_thelaughingman]

I am not disputing your measurements or their validity. I have no problems with your review.

I am addressing the people who took these measurements and drew the conclusion that the headphones are crap and snake oil because they deviate slightly from a target curve, despite never listening to them themselves.

I am just tired of all the keyboard warriors drawing these far-reaching conclusions about something they've never heard and using your measurements to sully the reputations of solid companies that are just trying to make good products. Hating on Abyss has become a circlejerk on this forum, and almost of it is baseless and undeserved.

I don't think it's a circlejerk of hate on Abyss by any means. Only thing that the community collectively agrees on, is the poor engineering and sound design and at times absurdity of claims made by Abyss

 

[MayaTlab]

they deviate slightly from a target curve

That's not their main problem. Their problem is that they simply can't realistically reach any target curve anyway, regardless of which it is, because of how significantly jagged the FR is, even in the range where measurements can be the most relied on and the most representative of how headphones would actually measure on your own head. It's a problem that's already been somewhat successfully solved decades ago below a few kHz and that you won't see even on some cheap headphones (for example : https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/sennheiser-hd600-review-headphone.23233/). Abyss themselves seem to agree with that assessment since their more recent Diana improves in that regard (not enough).
Here it's quite evident that regardless of the target they were aiming for (if they were aiming for one), they just didn't have the chops to reach it.

 

[imagidominc]

Hating on Abyss has become a circlejerk on this forum, and almost of it is baseless and undeserved.

Maybe it's because we don't like companies that claim to bring you to audio nirvana but prey on people's lack of knowledge about audio to sell them an over-hyped, under-performing (without EQ) product. I think Abyss and the companies like them know exactly the type of client they are catering to. This is why I don't really consider it "robbery", because the only people that would be in the market for this headphone are those with lots of disposable income. All companies like Abyss do is muddy the waters on what makes a headphone sound "good" and make audiophiles who spend $$$$ have something to brag about. All the flowery advertiser-friendly language in the world can't save you from a simple measurement test.

 

[abdo123]

and almost of it is baseless and undeserved.

so if I listened to it, and said it was shit, that would have more base and my description would be deserved?

you really think that one person's opinion has more base than engineering focused reproducible data of the headphone's performance?

or both would be baseless and we should just accept the manufacturer's claims at face value?

 

[nerdoldnerdith]

You using you "musician" background for justification of not believing in measurements sounds typical of subjectivist' that are too ingrained in beliefs that what you hear is the gold standard. Sounds to me like you're just justifying your expensive taste more than anything.

And you use measurements to evaluate equipment because without them you wouldn't have the slightest clue what you prefer if you were to compare two pairs of headphones without them. Let's rid ourselves of the notion that prejudicing our subjective evaluation of these things with measurements before we listen somehow makes us less biased and more "scientific."