Tannoy Westminster Royal

[anmpr1]

Given all the cheesy looks, I wonder whether that's kitsch or camp.

It's neither. That's just how it was in the forties and fifties. Tannoy was not unlike the large Klipsch, Bozak, JBL, Altecs, Wharfedales, etc. Furniture was the thing.

We recall how these were designed in the monophonic era, where amplification was dear, and horns ruled due their sensitivity. In truth, they did a nice job reproducing the format, and this Tannoy would have been an exceptional system to go along with your Garrard 301/Ortofon SPU rig.

When stereo came along things tended to downsize, and people began to notice 'imaging' and so forth. Probably the largest of the made for stereo 'furniture' speakers was the JBL Paragon. A one piece unit with a curved 'lens' that spread the image for larger spaces.

 

[anmpr1]

The genre lives on in the boutique market. Below is from Westlake Audio, a more pro oriented California company. As is usual with this sort of thing, if you have to ask the price...

 

[arisholm]

I own a pair of Westminsters Royal GR. Best speakers I've ever had, and I have had many, all shapes and sizes, and still do. Plenty of opportunities to compare with other high-end alternatives. All I hear in this thread is people who have not heard the speakers, except perhaps 30 years ago in a show or whatever, making silly judgements based on no evidence, probably because they cannot afford them and that makes them upset and angry. I had a pair of Paradigm Persona 9H (at 35k) recently and while they are good in terms of resolution with fancy Beryllium mid and tweeter, and plenty of bass with 4x 8inch powered by 1400W in each speaker, voted high-end speaker of the year in multiple places, they are not in the same league as Westminster in terms of dynamics, the way the soundstage is just MASSIVE, and the "live" feeling you get. I sold the Persona's and kept the Westminsters, it was not even a close call! The element is a brand new design, nothing 1940 monophonic about these, OMG how ridiculous that comment is given how extremely well the Westminsters "images" compared with a pair of B&W 800 for example.

As for the looks of the Westminsters.. Yes they look like big old furniture. But the finish is just to die for. Either you like it or not. But you cannot argue about the sound unless you've heard them... Here's my listening corner:

 

[q3cpma]

The genre lives on in the boutique market. Below is from Westlake Audio, a more pro oriented California company. As is usual with this sort of thing, if you have to ask the price...

View attachment 104795

Do the red socks make the sound faster?

 

[Feelas]

All I hear in this thread is people who have not heard the speakers, except perhaps 30 years ago in a show or whatever, making silly judgements based on no evidence, probably because they cannot afford them and that makes them angry.

No amount of being rich will make them look less ridiculous

 

[arisholm]

No amount of being rich will make them look less ridiculous

Just a serious hobby, not being rich, but if that makes you feel better, sure

 

[Vladimir Filevski]

... All I hear in this thread is people who have not heard the speakers, except perhaps 30 years ago in a show or whatever, making silly judgements based on no evidence, ...

That should be me...
Yes, I have heard Westminsters Royal some 30 years ago in a showroom, but I also have heard Stirling in the same place, at the same time. For me, Tannoy Stirling was better. And better looking. Sorry...

 

[Vini darko]

I own a pair of Westminsters Royal GR. Best speakers I've ever had, and I have had many, all shapes and sizes, and still do. Plenty of opportunities to compare with other high-end alternatives. All I hear in this thread is people who have not heard the speakers, except perhaps 30 years ago in a show or whatever, making silly judgements based on no evidence, probably because they cannot afford them and that makes them upset and angry. I had a pair of Paradigm Persona 9H (at 35k) recently and while they are good in terms of resolution with fancy Beryllium mid and tweeter, and plenty of bass with 4x 8inch powered by 1400W in each speaker, voted high-end speaker of the year in multiple places, they are not in the same league as Westminster in terms of dynamics, the way the soundstage is just MASSIVE, and the "live" feeling you get. I sold the Persona's and kept the Westminsters, it was not even a close call! The element is a brand new design, nothing 1940 monophonic about these, OMG how ridiculous that comment is given how extremely well the Westminsters "images" compared with a pair of B&W 800 for example.

As for the looks of the Westminsters.. Yes they look like big old furniture. But the finish is just to die for. Either you like it or not. But you cannot argue about the sound unless you've heard them... Here's my listening corner:
View attachment 110953

Im not jealous I'm not jealous I'm not jealous.
Seriously though why does the coffee table get the center spot? It's bugging me
Lovely set up m8.

 

[Pearljam5000]

Just a serious hobby, not being rich, but if that makes you feel better, sure

So it's basically a coax with 15 inch woofer and a 2 inch tweeter?
How does that justify a 50,000€ price?

 

[arisholm]

Im not jealous I'm not jealous I'm not jealous.
Seriously though why does the coffee table get the center spot? It's bugging me
Lovely set up m8.

Ah yes, THAT is bugging me too! Waiting for another sofa to get rid of that table! And it is right in the main MLP too! It really kills me, but that's how it is to have a familiy sometimes! So until that is in the place I just move things around so I get the center spot

 

[arisholm]

So it's basically a coax with 15 inch woofer and a 2 inch tweeter?
How does that justify a 50,000€ price?

I dunno... I guess it is what people are willing to pay.. But at least these ones require some real work to be made. Look at similar horn-loaded designs at 140kg each... In any case, the people who have heard them think they sound pretty good. Whether it is 50K good, I don't know, but personally I am very, very happy. And clearly better than the all modern Paradigm Persona 9H (google them). Or my fancy Adam S5X monitors. Or my Dalis. But these days 50K speakers are not even "ridiculous" price any more...

 

[arisholm]

That should be me...
Yes, I have heard Westminsters Royal some 30 years ago in a showroom, but I also have heard Stirling in the same place, at the same time. For me, Tannoy Stirling was better. And better looking. Sorry...

No worries ;-)
PS: About 30 years ago I listened to a pair of JBL 4435... That just took my breath away. The Westminster is pretty close, but not quite the same ;-)
If my wife would let me have a pair of 4435 in the living room I would be tempted. But also they're old and require a fair bit of work, getting rid of the old crossover etc... So I will settle for the tiny but WAF-friendly Westminsters

 

[arisholm]

They are not Hi-Fi for sure

BUT...

listen rock on them at full blast and you will never, ever go back to another speaker.

<small_print>Don't listen any other genre of music though...</small_print>

Actually I think where these speakers really shine is on Choral music and Jazz. Voices, piano and brass; suddenly they are physically present in the room, probably due to the horn loading and the coax element... But yes they can play crazy loud too if you want.

 

[arisholm]

Another detail before I call it a night. The Westminsters are both front and real loaded horns. So they have a bit of extra emphasis around the acoustic crossover around 200Hz as you will see here. That gives voices and instruments a bit extra "whiskey matureness" While a naive (just one dimension) frequency plot says almost nothing about how a speaker sounds in a room, this is the frequency response in my room (up to 2k), including a pair of subs in the very low end (<50Hz). And without any room correction. Of course you can make it flat with DSP, if you want. My favourite in that case is the Audiolense XO software which I use depending on my mood. Then these speakers get magical and perfectly linear phase. Anyway here is the frequency response.

 

[richard12511]

I own a pair of Westminsters Royal GR. Best speakers I've ever had, and I have had many, all shapes and sizes, and still do. Plenty of opportunities to compare with other high-end alternatives. All I hear in this thread is people who have not heard the speakers, except perhaps 30 years ago in a show or whatever, making silly judgements based on no evidence, probably because they cannot afford them and that makes them upset and angry. I had a pair of Paradigm Persona 9H (at 35k) recently and while they are good in terms of resolution with fancy Beryllium mid and tweeter, and plenty of bass with 4x 8inch powered by 1400W in each speaker, voted high-end speaker of the year in multiple places, they are not in the same league as Westminster in terms of dynamics, the way the soundstage is just MASSIVE, and the "live" feeling you get. I sold the Persona's and kept the Westminsters, it was not even a close call! The element is a brand new design, nothing 1940 monophonic about these, OMG how ridiculous that comment is given how extremely well the Westminsters "images" compared with a pair of B&W 800 for example.

As for the looks of the Westminsters.. Yes they look like big old furniture. But the finish is just to die for. Either you like it or not. But you cannot argue about the sound unless you've heard them... Here's my listening corner:
View attachment 110953

Lucky man! I'm sure the dynamics are incredible. I see you're using extreme toe in, which I'm a proponent of with horn and horn-like speakers.

That said, move the damn coffee table and sit in the sweet spot .

 

[Feelas]

Just a serious hobby, not being rich, but if that makes you feel better, sure

Obviously it doesn't make me feel better, but being a part of an ad-hominem attack surely makes me lotta sadder, since I feel it's mostly unwarranted.

 

[arisholm]

Lucky man! I'm sure the dynamics are incredible. I see you're using extreme toe in, which I'm a proponent of with horn and horn-like speakers.

That said, move the damn coffee table and sit in the sweet spot .

Yes the extreme toe in works really, really well. Perhaps the benefits are particularly good for horns but I wonder why not more people try it, especially if the room is a bit narrow (like in this case 5m wide by 8m long, I thought that was plenty until I got the Westminsters;-)
Next thing now is to install some ASC TubeTraps in an attempt to get even better control of the stuff happening below <300Hz.. And a more suitable sitting arrangement.
Anyway, what coffee table??

 

[Doodski]

Yes the extreme toe in works really, really well. Perhaps the benefits are particularly good for horns but I wonder why not more people try it, especially if the room is a bit narrow (like in this case 5m wide by 8m long, I thought that was plenty until I got the Westminsters;-)
Next thing now is to install some ASC TubeTraps in an attempt to get even better control of the stuff happening below <300Hz.. And a more suitable sitting arrangement.
Anyway, what coffee table??
View attachment 111021

Ahhh... nice to see some big bore speakers instead of all the bookshelf models.

 

[arisholm]

Obviously it doesn't make me feel better, but being a part of an ad-hominem attack surely makes me lotta sadder, since I feel it's mostly unwarranted.

Yeah perhaps I got a bit too defensive from your comment, sorry about that, no attack was intended. Peace

 

[sergeauckland]

I'm surprised that the toe-in on those Tannoys is thought to be 'extreme'. I've always had my 'speakers turned to face the listening seat directly, as it's the on-axis response that's most flat. I've also tried the configuration attributed to Hugh Brittain whereby the axes of the loudspeakers cross some way in front of a central listener and serves to widen the 'sweet spot' for slightly off-centre listeners, but results in even more 'extreme' toe-in. As I mostly listen alone, I've gone back to the 'speakers on-axis, but don't understand why anyone would want to listen off-axis unless the 'speakers weren't flat on-axis, in which case, get better 'speakers!

S.