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A millennial's rant on classical music

Sal1950

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I found another fun thing to watch for you guys:
I can't figure out what the hell he's talking about or the point he's trying to make, more ridiculous racial blabber.
I'm so sick of this, Pure click bait AFAIK
 

Robin L

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Sal1950

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There is a point, but this isn't it. If you want some intelligent writing on the subject, try Joseph Horowitz. "Understanding Toscanini" is a good starting point.

https://www.amazon.com/Understanding-Toscanini-History-American-Concert/dp/0520085426
Thanks Robin but I'm so totally ignorant of anything to do with Classical music I'd most likely wouldn't begin to understand that book either. LOL. It just ticks me off that everyones trying to drag race into everything today.
The worlds library of modern music I do somewhat understand and appreciate is so vast I'll never even come close to listening to a small part of it. Between progressive rock, blues and country I've probably got 2 or 3 hundred albums in my computer I haven't listened to yet.
@Fluffy made a lot of good points in his OP leaving a lot of room for discussion on attitudes in the world of music lovers without playing the race cards. I prefer race cars in any case. LOL
Cheers
 

Robin L

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Thanks Robin but I'm so totally ignorant of anything to do with Classical music I'd most likely wouldn't begin to understand that book either. LOL. It just ticks me off that everyones trying to drag race into everything today.
The worlds library of modern music I do somewhat understand and appreciate is so vast I'll never even come close to listening to a small part of it. Between progressive rock, blues and country I've probably got 2 or 3 hundred albums in my computer I haven't listened to yet.
@Fluffy made a lot of good points in his OP leaving a lot of room for discussion on attitudes in the world of music lovers without playing the race cards. I prefer race cars in any case. LOL
Cheers
Someone else who is more fond of old music from Europe will have a better chance of getting something out of Joseph Horowitz's explorations of Hype and Class in Classical music. The Beethoven video was pretty much about the same stuff as the Mozart Vid. And yet, Anthony Braxton walks among us still. If folks want to come up with their un-European concept of Art Music, nobody is stopping them. Cecil Taylor may have had trouble getting a gig, so did Schubert, so did Bruckner.

And ultimately, Popular music is popular because a lot of people like it, as Irving Berlin once said.

I've got a similar number of albums in my DAP I have yet to hear, the nature of their contents is all over the place.
 

Guermantes

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I found another fun thing to watch for you guys:


Never liked Schenkerian analysis, more a neo-Riemannian person myself:p

I have one of the books he shows on-screen, Tonal Harmony by Kostka and Payne, and it spends a couple of paragraphs on figured bass as opposed to several pages on serialism in the 20th century. It's true that the nomenclature used to describe chord inversions is derived from the conventions of figured bass but I think it's stretching the point a bit to claim that anyone would analyse Chopin with the principles of figured bass. Adam Neely is a pretty switched-on guy and he's often thought-provoking, but I think he is exaggerating a little for the sake of polemic and also letting his preference for jazz theory bias the narrative here.

He draws on Hindustani classical music tradition as a foil to Western music theory, but it must be pointed out that the Indian classical traditions are not innocent of elitism either and they reflect the prejudicial attitudes of the caste system that still influences Indian society. I'm afraid we will find the same social issues in the classical traditions of every culture, but they are also the traditions that have the most sophisticated systems of codification and pedagogy.

I agree that a comparative theoretical approach is sorely lacking in Western musical pedagogy and I would love to see a move to incorporating this into teaching music theory. When I was studying "Classical Music" in college, I was deeply interested in the World Music movement of the late 80s/early 90s and was fortunate to have some lecturers who had studied more cross-culturally. They didn't try to pass off Western Music Theory as some sort of Platonic ideal but always saw this as relating specifically to the Common Practice Period of Western (i.e. European) Art Music. Before and after this period, even in the European context, the theoretical principles often don't apply, so how could anyone consider them universal?

But, following from Neely's Hindustani example, are we simply going end up comparing elitist musical traditions from various cultures and thus justifying their systemic prejudices?

Alex Ross has just written on the issue of racial elitism in the classical music canon, obviously inspired by Philip Ewell's recent articles:
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/...s-confront-white-supremacy-in-classical-music

Interestingly Alex Ross ends up on a note of what seems to be resigned pessimism (much like my quote on the Angel of History):

The ultimate mistake is to look to music—or to any art form—as a zone of moral improvement, a refuge of sweetness and light. Attempts to cleanse the canon of disreputable figures end up replicating the great-man theory in a negative register, with arch-villains taking the place of geniuses. Because all art is the product of our grandiose, predatory species, it reveals the worst in our natures as well as the best. Like every beautiful thing we have created, music can become a weapon of division and destruction. The philosopher Theodor W. Adorno, in a characteristically pitiless mood, wrote, “Every work of art is an uncommitted crime.”
 

Robin L

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The ultimate mistake is to look to music—or to any art form—as a zone of moral improvement, a refuge of sweetness and light. Attempts to cleanse the canon of disreputable figures end up replicating the great-man theory in a negative register, with arch-villains taking the place of geniuses. Because all art is the product of our grandiose, predatory species, it reveals the worst in our natures as well as the best. Like every beautiful thing we have created, music can become a weapon of division and destruction. The philosopher Theodor W. Adorno, in a characteristically pitiless mood, wrote, “Every work of art is an uncommitted crime.”
Amen to that. Yes, Hitler loved the music of Anton Bruckner. No, that fact is not the fault of Bruckner.
 

Daverz

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About classical, I can't listen to it unless it is a ballad (I don't know if you consider that classical, but it has a lot of the same instruments and compositions). The voices and the lyrics give the music something that the old (pre-1900) classical music doesn't have. For me, it doesn't have a rhythm to follow and it isn't musically sound. Now, when it involves singing, I'm all in (depending on how my ears like the music).

Old post, but it bugs me that someone could think that pre-1900 classical music did not have voices and lyrics. I blame classical music radio with its phobia for vocal music. For many composers, purely instrumental music would have been the stuff they wrote in between all the operas, masses, cantatas, passions, motets, concert arias, and oratorios.

Schubert wrote many ballads. The lyrics are in German, of course.
 

North_Sky

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That is quite an interesting discussion on one of the most beautiful topics in the world.

I didn't read the thread in its entirety, but I will ...
I did register the captivating essence, the rant, the writing, the words, their meaning.

Classical music is like a walk in the forest ...
 
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Fluffy

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The ultimate mistake is to look to music—or to any art form—as a zone of moral improvement, a refuge of sweetness and light. Attempts to cleanse the canon of disreputable figures end up replicating the great-man theory in a negative register, with arch-villains taking the place of geniuses. Because all art is the product of our grandiose, predatory species, it reveals the worst in our natures as well as the best. Like every beautiful thing we have created, music can become a weapon of division and destruction. The philosopher Theodor W. Adorno, in a characteristically pitiless mood, wrote, “Every work of art is an uncommitted crime.”
It's worth noting that everyone in that video had specifically said that they are against banning composers, and they are just arguing for recognizing historical injustices.
 

simoon

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I just joined, so I hope I don't get in trouble for zombie posting, but, for many years, I had most of the same problems with classical music as the OP.

I just usually found classical boring, predictable, and cliché. It wasn't until later that I found out that it is what is known as "common practice" that I found boring.

It wasn't until I was introduced* to classical music from the mid to late 20th century, and up through the present day. Composers such as: Elliott Carter, Magnus Lindberg, Joan Tower, Charles Wuorinen, Harrison Birtwistle, Roger Sessions, Luciano Berio, Joseph Schwantner, Unsuk Chin, Peter Maxwell Davies, Augusta Read Thomas, and many more. I then went back and discovered the composer of the 2nd Viennese School (Schoenberg, Webern, Berg).

These are the composers, that many classical aficionados, find too "thorny" and "difficult" to listen to.

Very complex time signatures, atonality, polytonality, extended use of percussion, altered and extended chords, are just some of the characteristics that music from these periods, that music from the common practice periods lacked. Not always an easy listen, but well worth the effort.

*The way I was introduced to this type of music, is through my love for avant-prog music. This is a subgenre of progressive music, where the bands have taken a lot of their influences from these same composers, as opposed to most prog bands (YES, King Crimson, Genesis, PFM, etc), who seemingly have taken their influences from Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev. It was bands like: Thinking Plague, Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Aranis, 5UUs, and many more, where you can hear the influences of mid to late 20th century composers.
 
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ahofer

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I just joined, so I hope I don't get in trouble for zombie posting, but, for many years, I had most of the same problems with classical music as the OP.

I just usually found classical boring, predictable, and cliché. It wasn't until later that I found out that it is what is known as "common practice" that I found boring.

It wasn't until I was introduced* to classical music from the mid to late 20th century, and up through the present day. Composers such as: Elliott Carter, Magnus Lindberg, Joan Tower, Charles Wuorinen, Harrison Birtwistle, Roger Sessions, Luciano Berio, Joseph Schwantner, Unsuk Chin, Peter Maxwell Davies, Augusta Read Thomas, and many more. I then went back and discovered the composer of the 2nd Viennese School (Schoenberg, Webern, Berg).

These are the composers, that many classical aficionados, find too "thorny" and "difficult" to listen to.

Very complex time signatures, atonality, polytonality, extended use of percussion, altered and extended chords, are just some of the characteristics that music from these periods, that music from the common practice periods lacked. Not always an easy listen, but well worth the effort.

*The way I was introduced to this type of music, is through my love for avant-prog music. This is a subgenre of progressive music, where the bands have taken a lot of their influences from these same composers, as opposed to most prog bands (YES, King Crimson, Genesis, PFM, etc), who seemingly have taken their influences from Bartok, Stravinsky, Prokofiev. It was bands like: Thinking Plague, Henry Cow, Univers Zero, Art Zoyd, Aranis, 5UUs, and many more, where you can hear the influences of mid to late 20th century composers.

I often find the second viennese school hard to listen to - sometimes they are more fun to play than listen to, rather. Nonetheless, I think your point shows that there is a lot in the formal music tradition, and it is difficult to dismiss casually as some have done.

One quibble - the history of altered and extended chords begins in the classical era (as compared to atonality and many of the percussion innovations of the 20th century). Rameau first described the use of 9th and 11th chords in 1722. Schubert used the dominant 9th chord (7-flat9), and one of the things that made Beethoven great was his mastery of the tonal tradition and ability to break its rules seemingly at will, often with passages that rest on altered or extended chords, instead of using it mostly in the dominant function like his predecessors. The romantics just took off with it, and there's a lot of similarity between how Debussy and, say, Bill Evans used altered and modal scales. One thing I really appreciate about a lot of prog-rockers is that they, like Beethoven and modern formal composers, know the tradition, and it can help them be exceptionally creative in exploding it.

Somewhere earlier in the thread I was accused of suggesting that there's nothing new, it was all invented in the classical tradition - that's not at all my point when I describe how many allegedly "modern" phenomena did, in fact, appear in classical and romantic formal music. But so much in popular music stands on the shoulders of the great composers in the formal tradition who, in turn, stand on the shoulders of folk, indigenous, and religious musicians. It's a long and glorious chain of cultural exchange.
 
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Tim Link

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I generally can't understand the appeal of country music, and I think it is a cultural thing. There's a way to enjoy different kinds of music and sometimes you have to be around the right people to catch the vibe. I caught the country vibe once on a bus full of country music loving US Marines. I was a squid that caught the bus with them from base to go skiing. I listened to them talking and laughing, with their music going in the background, and after about 30 minutes I got it! I felt the good feeling that it was giving them. I know it happened but I can't remember what it felt like now, so I'm back to my normal inability to enjoy country music. I know it's possible for me to do it though!
 

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I find country music to be a spectrum. You can start with folk music from Appalachia and Europe, then traditional bluegrass, then progressive bluegrass, then western/cowboy music. Keep going and at some point you find yourself at country rock and other modern genres. Personally, I've made the first couple of steps on this journey but I haven't been able to push myself beyond the bluegrass stage.
 

MRC01

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Old post, but it bugs me that someone could think that pre-1900 classical music did not have voices and lyrics. ... Schubert wrote many ballads. The lyrics are in German, of course.
Long before that, we had lovely songs and madrigals from Dowland, also Gesualdo (whose music was adventurous for its time, some of it could pass for 20th century), and Monteverdi. Joel Frederiksen made a great album having a bunch of songs from various early (pre-classical) composers. They range from pretty, to spine-chilling, to humorous to bawdy. I made those links to some of my favorite recordings, for those who want to explore.
 

Robin L

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I've got few problems with country over time. The more recent "Country" I really like probably would be better placed under the subset of "Americana", but I've got no problem with country music from the Carter Family to the present. "Sturgeon's Law" applies to country music just as much as any other popular genre which also means there's always 5% worth listening to.

As regards earlier "Classical" vocal music, don't forget Josquin and Hildegarde von Bingen.
 

Sal1950

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Keep going and at some point you find yourself at country rock and other modern genres. Personally, I've made the first couple of steps on this journey but I haven't been able to push myself beyond the bluegrass stage.
Rock and Country are two sides of the same coin, along with Blues they were born nearly as one. Lyrically rock music mostly has spoken to the very young from the early teens and up. County music speaks to the mature audience that has lived through some of the ups and downs of middle age life, marriage, divorce, work, alcohol with it's affect on life, both the good and the bad, etc. Blues is very similar but speaks to an even older and more disadvantaged section of society. A very generalized grouping but all three are lyrically based music looking to speak a central audience. Much the same for Opera though being written to a ancient audience, hard to get into for most modern audiences.
Classical is entirely different, speaking not to a listeners life experiences but more a base emotional connection to the music itself.
I guess that's a big part of the reason I've never been able to enjoy Classical, it just doesn't say anything to me. :confused:
 

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I've been wanting for a long time to unload all my issues with classical music, but didn't really find a judgment-free platform to do it on. From my short time as a reader in this forum, I believe there are enough people here who are classical music enthusiasts that are capable of having a relaxed and intelligent discussion about this topic. I just want to say ahead of time that I have no intention of personally hurting anyone, and what I write here represents my opinions alone (and possibly other people like me, but here I only speak for myself). And most importantly, I write here in the hope of changing my mind and maybe realize things I haven't known or thought of before.

As a starting point, this rant is somewhat a continuation of this old thread:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ou-get-everyone-to-like-classical-music.1729/

I wanted to respond to the question in that thread's title with my view on the subject as a relatively young person (29) that has been exposed many times to classical music, but has never been able to take any interest in it. And I'm not talking about hearing some accidental Mozart on the radio. My father (and also my mother to a lesser degree) is a huge classical music buff with a massive CD collection that I've heard in its entirety probably multiple times through the course of my life, as he played it in the house and in his car. I've been to several classical concerts with my parents, and even at operas (at Verona amphitheatre no less). I took piano lessons through my childhood, and can recognize by name quite a few classical pieces, and some of the easier ones I knew how to play at some point (forgot all my training by now though).

And despite all of this (or possibly because all of this…), I really hate classical music. I never listen to it by my own free will, I avoid concerts like the plague, and every time I tried to listen to something classical that might be "the one" to turn me, I got bored super-fast and didn't make it all the way through. There is no period or composer or instrument that can make me sit all the way through a piece. Music from the modern period and early periods (baroque and earlier) are especially agonizing, while to the romantic and classical periods I can listen as background music if I must. Opera and anything with singers sound completely horrible to me.

Now, it's not an issue with the music itself, so to speak (more on this later). I don't have allergy to violins and I don't mind listening to a solo piano (I do specifically hate opera-style singing, but that's not the majority of classical music anyway). And when a classical piece is adapted to a different genre, such as jazz or rock, I can comfortably sit and listen to it all the way through. I can find myself whistling classical tunes to myself occasionally because they are so engrained in my memory.

No, the first major obstacle of classical music, is the culture of classical music. That concept encapsulates so many practices that are very alienating to anyone not coming from inside that culture.

It starts with how a lot of classical music listeners and players perceive themselves and the music they play. It's no coincidence that it's common to categorize anything that is not classical music as pop-music. There is something about the attitude of the classical music people that is condescending and self-elevating. They commonly consider their music as more sophisticated, complex, deep, human, etc, than the "popular" genres of music. Some consider classical music "universal", as if it captures something more real or basic about humanity, and thus every human can relate to it. From my point of view, classical music is merely older, that's it. The virtue of age does not make it any truer, in the same way that old religions aren't truer because of their antiquity, and old science practices aren’t more accurate because they precede the current ones. It is true that a large part of today's musical understanding and composing practices derives from what was learned by classical composers, but in the same time there are a lot of aspects to modern music that have no root in classical music. And on top of that, classical music is merely a western concept after all, and it's hardly universal to people outside Europe and the US.

Another strange aspect of the culture, is the listening habits. Listening at home is indeed not a very different affair from listening to any other genre, apart from the average lengthiness of the pieces. But listening to a performance is a whole different beast. You need to dress up whether you are a spectator of a performer, go to a huge concert hall and sit totally quietly for hours at a time, clapping at the appropriate moments. The performers themselves are dressed like they are about to get married, and usually play with all these weird unnatural mannerisms. Of course these concerts are usually quite pricey, and to fully enjoy the pieces one should be deeply familiar with them and maintain focus for the duration of the performance. Although from my experiences, apart from the very lively conductor or soloist on stage, the audience usually resembles more of a funeral crowd than one that is engaged with the music they are listening to. It's such a different experience from any other modern music listening experience, that it's very hard to accustom yourself to it if you are used to go to 'normal' pop and rock concerts. And I don't see anything deeper of more profound in that way of experiencing live music. Sitting stiffly and quietly in a chair seems a lot less profound than standing, moving, dancing, and physically engaging with the music you are hearing.

The final cultural weirdness is the separation between composer and performer. It's to be expected from a genre whose composers mostly past away years ago and require many dozens of players to play most of its repertoire. But still, the fact that you not only need to find the right piece, but also the right performance in the right venue with the right orchestra being conducted by the right conductor, in order to listen to the truest or best form of that piece… it makes things very frustrating. The fact that there is not 'definite' version of a piece (akin to the album version of a song), puts more steps in the way of an uninitiated person's ability to appreciate the actual music itself.

That brings me to the minor but still crucial obstacle preventing me from actually appreciating classical music – the music. As I said before, there are pieces that I can enjoy humming and don't mind listening to in the background, and the instruments of the genre are fine by themselves. I love film scores and they are made of the same instruments and arranging techniques of classical music. The major issue I have is, for a lack of a better word, the overall blandness.

There is some percentage of classical music that is instantly catchy and widely recognizable, but the core repertoire is made of numerous symphonies and concertos that are mostly drone out and downright boring. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the type to stick to just short catchy songs. Most of my favorite music is made of long and complex prog-rock, jazz and metal pieces and songs, that take multiple listens to fully appreciate, and sometimes require deep understanding in musical theory to get to the bottom of. I am no stranger to deep diving into an intricate musical piece and exploring it to its fullest. I enjoy loud and energetic music as much as quiet and emotional one, and neither dynamics nor emotional content scares me.

But every time I hear a classical piece, huge chunks of musical potential are simply missing. The rhythmic content of these pieces is plain and groove-less. The harmonic content is often too consonant to a point of predictability, and every 'experimental' aspect of harmony or melody is very primitive compared to even the simplest of jazz or prog-rock. The constraints of the same typical orchestral instruments in all the pieces leads to dynamics that are pretty limited in their expression – they can't convey the exploding emotional effects of an electronic bass drop or searing guitar solos. The very long pieces like symphonies seem to me like they could be shortened by 80% while not losing any of the actual interesting parts. Most of it is transitions leading to build ups leading to wind downs and so forth without a real point to it all. And for some reason, modern classical music went deeper and deeper into the rabbit hole of heady academic avant-garde, instead of trying to produce music that actually connect with people that don't have a bachelor degree in music. I see no justification in any art form that is produced to be consumed by only its producer.

Those are the main reasons why I don't like classical music. But this is frustrating, because I want to like it. I know that a lot of the modern music that I consume (whether prog-rock or films scores) was inspired by classical music. I hear all the people that tell about their transcendent experiences from listening to it, and I really believe them that they had those experiences, while I can't imagine having those myself listening to this music. It's not that I'm not getting all the emotional and spiritual fulfillment one needs from the music I listen to, because I do. But if there is something more to explore that I haven't been able to, it makes me feel like I'm missing out on a whole range of new possible musical sensations. From the little classical pieces that I do like, I can tell there is untapped potential for enjoyment, that is so far have laid just out of reach. The obstacles I listed above are not easy to overcome, but I hope there is a way to do so that will start me on a journey of rediscovery of this genre of music.

Thank you for your time, to whoever managed to read up to this point. Your thoughts, suggestions, and objections are welcome :)


I am a classical musician. I didn't read your entire post here, but I'll offer the viewpoint of a horn player who's played all the major repertoire, as well as commercial music, musicals, and the soundtracks to some movies you've probably seen.

1. There are some classical musicians who are downright snobby. But I think this happens in any community. Being an audiophile itself, or a foodie, etc., is considered by many to be an inherently snobby thing. I think most classical musicians love most forms of music just like anyone else. I love Beethoven, etc., but I also enjoy hiphop, rock, metal, jazz, etc.

2. In some ways classical music is different than most other types of music. Compared to 99% of music on the radio, classical music is much more harmonically and rhythmically complex. I think you are very incorrect when you say it is simple or too consonant. Nothing else in western music even comes close, except for some jazz. I think of pop music as being disposable for the most part, while classical music stays with me. There's selection bias here, as the lousy classical music doesn't tend to get performed, and is mostly lost to history. It's like the difference between grabbing a Big Mac for dinner to devour while watching a movie at home, and a meal prepared by a master chef, that you will remember for a lifetime. That doesn't mean that I think all modern music will disappear-but history hasn't yet filtered the modern music that will still be listened to in 100 years from the catchy songs that sound great for a year and then grow tiresome.

3. There is a problem with the culture of classical music. That problem arises from class. Classical music was the music of the wealthy, and musicians and patrons reenact the historical divisions of class. People dress fancily to go to the opera, and the opera happily markets itself that way, since rich people can pay more for tickets. But this is changing out of necessity, I think. It does bother me though. I've often had to attend wine and cheese functions where we host our patrons. It's exhausting having to listen to them go on about how their Porsche is in the garage again, or that their corgi has a sore throat.

4. There is something very special to me about sitting in an orchestra. It's like having the world's best surround-sound system. An orchestra is capable of making an extraordinary number of textures, and the nuances it's capable of creating give it the ability to convey the deepest emotions and raise the deepest philosophical questions in a way that I generally don't think a set of drums, a bass, and a few guitars can.

5. Not all music is meant to be "hummable," just like not all movies are meant to be action-flicks. Classical music is sometimes meant to challenge the audience, or even to provoke them. Attending a performance of Shostakovich's 4th Symphony is not at all supposed to be like going to be Pearl Jam concert (I like Pearl Jam). I don't read Wittgenstein for the same reason that I may read a sci-fi novel, but I love both.

6. Music is meant to serve people, not the other way around. All genres of music have people who love them and people who loathe them. So maybe you just don't like Classical music. That's totally okay. But you gotta admit that Darth Vader wouldn't be nearly as cool without the Imperial March, so give some credit to the orchestra. It has a glorious history, and I think will remain relevant as long as there are humans living together.

Thanks for reading.
 

ahofer

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I am a classical musician. I didn't read your entire post here, but I'll offer the viewpoint of a horn player who's played all the major repertoire, as well as commercial music, musicals, and the soundtracks to some movies you've probably seen.

1. There are some classical musicians who are downright snobby. But I think this happens in any community. Being an audiophile itself, or a foodie, etc., is considered by many to be an inherently snobby thing. I think most classical musicians love most forms of music just like anyone else. I love Beethoven, etc., but I also enjoy hiphop, rock, metal, jazz, etc.

2. In some ways classical music is different than most other types of music. Compared to 99% of music on the radio, classical music is much more harmonically and rhythmically complex. I think you are very incorrect when you say it is simple or too consonant. Nothing else in western music even comes close, except for some jazz. I think of pop music as being disposable for the most part, while classical music stays with me. There's selection bias here, as the lousy classical music doesn't tend to get performed, and is mostly lost to history. It's like the difference between grabbing a Big Mac for dinner to devour while watching a movie at home, and a meal prepared by a master chef, that you will remember for a lifetime. That doesn't mean that I think all modern music will disappear-but history hasn't yet filtered the modern music that will still be listened to in 100 years from the catchy songs that sound great for a year and then grow tiresome.

3. There is a problem with the culture of classical music. That problem arises from class. Classical music was the music of the wealthy, and musicians and patrons reenact the historical divisions of class. People dress fancily to go to the opera, and the opera happily markets itself that way, since rich people can pay more for tickets. But this is changing out of necessity, I think. It does bother me though. I've often had to attend wine and cheese functions where we host our patrons. It's exhausting having to listen to them go on about how their Porsche is in the garage again, or that their corgi has a sore throat.

4. There is something very special to me about sitting in an orchestra. It's like having the world's best surround-sound system. An orchestra is capable of making an extraordinary number of textures, and the nuances it's capable of creating give it the ability to convey the deepest emotions and raise the deepest philosophical questions in a way that I generally don't think a set of drums, a bass, and a few guitars can.

5. Not all music is meant to be "hummable," just like not all movies are meant to be action-flicks. Classical music is sometimes meant to challenge the audience, or even to provoke them. Attending a performance of Shostakovich's 4th Symphony is not at all supposed to be like going to be Pearl Jam concert (I like Pearl Jam). I don't read Wittgenstein for the same reason that I may read a sci-fi novel, but I love both.

6. Music is meant to serve people, not the other way around. All genres of music have people who love them and people who loathe them. So maybe you just don't like Classical music. That's totally okay. But you gotta admit that Darth Vader wouldn't be nearly as cool without the Imperial March, so give some credit to the orchestra. It has a glorious history, and I think will remain relevant as long as there are humans living together.

Thanks for reading.
Welcome, and glad to have you here. Interesting contrast between yours and @Sal1950 ’s post above. I can’t imagine not finding any music in the *entire* formal tradition that says something to you. Just as I can’t imagine not finding any rock or jazz that speaks to you. I’ve always thought of music as both universal and particular - most everyone is deeply moved by music (and many genres), but the particular music that does it for each individual varies widely.
 

ahofer

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The comment about the Imperial Death March made me think of this scene - effective use of Beethoven.


now THAT speaks to me.
 
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