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WolfX700 Measurement of Topping L30 Headphone Amp

velasfloyd

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Makes perfect sense. Glad to hear that L30 got plenty of muscle to drive most cans. Do you guys think that amplifier topology, design that Topping is using in this amp (and it’s bigger brother) is closing in on what THX is offering?

havent you seen the measurements on this site? Just compare thx with topping a90.... or wolf’s L30.

measurements are, I think, the most important thing in this site, so if you are interested in compare, lets say, topping vs thx, you can see the measurements. This are made by an independent (amir) and are, for me and for a lot of people, far more important than the specs given by the manufacturers.
 

MSTARK

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havent you seen the measurements on this site? Just compare thx with topping a90.... or wolf’s L30.

measurements are, I think, the most important thing in this site, so if you are interested in compare, lets say, topping vs thx, you can see the measurements. This are made by an independent (amir) and are, for me and for a lot of people, far more important than the specs given by the manufacturers.
I’m new here. Gonna need some time to navigate and find things that are interested and handy. Yes, I have heard about approach to measurements and tests performed on this site hence the reason to my signing up and hopes to learn something. Guys on here seem to be doing great job and I surely appreciate it and I surely will follow their new ventures.
 

frogmeat69

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I’m new here. Gonna need some time to navigate and find things that are interested and handy. Yes, I have heard about approach to measurements and tests performed on this site hence the reason to my signing up and hopes to learn something. Guys on here seem to be doing great job and I surely appreciate it and I surely will follow their new ventures.
Welcome, it's a great place if you want objective measurements and straight talk about stuff, not a bunch of gobbledygook and flowery words describing audiophool shit no one but bats could possibly hear.
 

OldDude66

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A pure portable balanced amp is in development.
Can you tell us what headphone connector(s) this amp will have? I want its mate on one of the cables on my next headphones, to be acquired in the near future.

The other cable will be a 6.35 for my new L30 shipping on 7-31.
 

CedarWind108

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Welcome, it's a great place if you want objective measurements and straight talk about stuff, not a bunch of gobbledygook and flowery words describing audiophool shit no one but bats could possibly hear.
It’s a great concept, find the cheapest products with the best measurements. Yet many of the best measuring products are not very enjoyable to listen to. Better measurements does not mean you will enjoy the product more.
 

JohnYang1997

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It’s a great concept, find the cheapest products with the best measurements. Yet many of the best measuring products are not very enjoyable to listen to. Better measurements does not mean you will enjoy the product more.
Cheapest products with greatest measurements, user interface, functionality, feature, appearance.
 

NDC

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It’s a great concept, find the cheapest products with the best measurements. Yet many of the best measuring products are not very enjoyable to listen to. Better measurements does not mean you will enjoy the product more.

Ah, this old chestnut. If something measures well - i.e. is audibly transparent, then how enjoyable it is to listen to will be related to the music you’re listening to not the hardware.

Or if you are comparing products, you may just really like the sound of something that is broken/poorly implemented resulting in artifacts that can be heard.

Or you might like lots of second harmonic distortion. Or you might be biased due to sighting, aesthetics etc.

However to say hardware that measures well isn’t enjoyable to listen to is a very problematic statement, particularly on AudioScienceReview.
 

MSTARK

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Welcome, it's a great place if you want objective measurements and straight talk about stuff, not a bunch of gobbledygook and flowery words describing audiophool shit no one but bats could possibly hear.
Lol got ya. And thanks.
 

CedarWind108

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Ah, this old chestnut. If something measures well - i.e. is audibly transparent, then how enjoyable it is to listen to will be related to the music you’re listening to not the hardware.

Or if you are comparing products, you may just really like the sound of something that is broken/poorly implemented resulting in artifacts that can be heard.

Or you might like lots of second harmonic distortion. Or you might be biased due to sighting, aesthetics etc.

However to say hardware that measures well isn’t enjoyable to listen to is a very problematic statement, particularly on AudioScienceReview.

Or maybe instead of saying a product is poorly implemented (and many are), it is actually carefully tuned to have an enhanced listening experience. If your goal is to reproduce music most accurately, measurements are essential. But they don't equal a product people will enjoy more. I think this websites makes people over-correlate measurements with how much they will enjoy the sound of a product. A lot of people may find that they prefer products that in some ways subtly enhance the sound/experience over products that are extremely accurate.

I've shopped based on this website, and often found I far more enjoyed products that didn't measure perfectly.
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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It’s a great concept, find the cheapest products with the best measurements. Yet many of the best measuring products are not very enjoyable to listen to. Better measurements does not mean you will enjoy the product more.

in terms of sound quality, it assures that you won't (or shouldn't a least) enjoy the product less. Then it comes down to features, aesthetics, and expectation bias...
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Or maybe instead of saying a product is poorly implemented (and many are), it is actually carefully tuned to have an enhanced listening experience. If your goal is to reproduce music most accurately, measurements are essential. But they don't equal a product people will enjoy more. I think this websites makes people over-correlate measurements with how much they will enjoy the sound of a product. A lot of people may find that they prefer products that in some ways subtly enhance the sound/experience over products that are extremely accurate.

I've shopped based on this website, and often found I far more enjoyed products that didn't measure perfectly.

So what about those imperfectly-measuring (and likely more expensive) products could not have been achieved by adding some EQ to the better measuring less costly item (assuming what you are after is some colored sound signature)? I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want a device in their system that is "tuned" in some specific, un-alterable way...especially if that device is sold for boutique dollars.
 

MSTARK

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However to say hardware that measures well isn’t enjoyable to listen to is a very problematic statement, particularly on AudioScienceReview.
It’s a can of worms. I personally know guys that design their products with two opposite approaches. Specifications, circuitry first and foremost and those who tune it by ear (within certain spects and principles of cause) and work on industry standardized spects later. For example, DartZel
 

MSTARK

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It’s a can of worms. I personally know guys that design their products with two opposite approaches. Specifications, circuitry first and foremost and those who tune it by ear (within certain spects and principles of cause) and work on industry standardized spects later. For example, DartZel
I don’t even know what “neutral” or “accurate” means. I don’t think anybody does. Lol
 

MSTARK

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Huh? Is it some big mystery? A flat line from 20-20000hz with inaudible noise and distortion?
That’s frequency response of component in question. Does it tell the whole story and is it an indicator of accuracy of music reproduction in inherently flawed chain of components? Headphones and speakers are notorious for harmonic distortion. They are the last in music reproduction chain and are probably the most coloration prone of any components. Given theoretical scenario of every component being virtually flat and uncolored by component choice, power supply or design topology, you still have to deal with the weakest link, speaker/headphones. It makes more sense to compensate shortcomings of speakers/headphones with components that could minimize those shortcomings or ....... tailor the sound to what YOU perceive as “right” and “accurate”. However, when I said “neutral” or “accurate”, I wasn’t necessarily referring to frequency response but to mirror image of what mastering engineers intended for particular composition to sound like. Also, it’s their own interpretation of “rightness” with often very little feedback from actual artists. Measurements don’t mean much if it doesn’t sound correct and music struggles to connect with you on the personal level. It doesn’t mean that spects don’t matter, THEY DO. But there are many variables that play part in this quest for “perfection”.
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Yeah, transducers are the issue. Everything before that point can be eliminated as an issue as far as neutrality is concerned. Then you deal with the speakers (and the room)/headphones. It's a challenge, and you can't compensate for it by choosing colored components ahead of them. That's a bad idea. Good measurements and EQ is the way to go there. But the point is, aiming for neutral is a real, meaningful target. Get the source to your ears as unaltered as possible. Many of the variables you think play a part are imaginary.
 
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Yuno

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t makes more sense to compensate shortcomings of speakers/headphones with components that could minimize those shortcomings
Those components are not dacs and amps. As other people said, this is what equalizers or hardware DSP is for. So that you can change how your headphones/speakers sound like without blowing hard earned money each time you buy a new pair of headphones or have a change of mind in what you want your setup to sound like.

but to mirror image of what mastering engineers intended for particular composition to sound like
You mean mastering engineers who typically work with "clinical sounding" audio interfaces that no audiophile will touch with a 10 foot pole?
I can guarantee you one thing, people who master music don't do it with assumption that it is meant to be played on specific combo of dac+amp+headphones/speakers connected with gold interconnect cables and topped with magic stones.
 

MSTARK

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Yeah, transducers are the issue. Everything before that point can be eliminated as an issue as far as neutrality is concerned. Then you deal with the speakers (and the room)/headphones. It's a challenge, and you can't compensate for it by choosing colored components ahead of them. That's a bad idea. Good measurements and EQ is the way to go there. But the point is, aiming for neutral is a real, meaningful target. Get the source to your ears as unaltered as possible. Many of the variables you think play a part are imaginary.
I partially agree, however. As you well know there is such a thing as component matching and “synergy”. And if your transducers (cans or speakers) can compensate from component “coloration“ or emphasis/rolloff at any specific frequencies then it could potentially benefit overall experience if linearity is the goal. One thing I do have reservation for in your comment is actively EQing signal to compensate. I’m not against it, I am just not convinced that it’s a solution that would be appealing to most enthusiast out there (especially “purists”). In extreme cases where nothing can be done to fix anomalies in question, yes, there are not many tools that can do a better job then quality EQ. But I would probably try to stay away from any transducers that require that much effort and investment to get it close to being “right”.
Thriving for “neutrality”/linearity is definitely more productive (cheaper) then “cooking” with unfamiliar ingredients. No question about it. Personally I try to match my headphones/speakers to amplifier and/or preamp in hope for synergy and adequate power transfer. Source (digital or analogue) is something that I wish was as neutral and forgiving as possible. (I own 3 DACs and they all sound different.)
 

Sgt. Ear Ache

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Who said anything about transducers that require lots of EQ? I said the opposite. Look for headphones and speakers that have fundamentally good measurements, then EQ as little as possible aiming again for neutrality.

As far as "component matching and synergy" goes, well I will refer you to my previous post where I mentioned imagination.

You mention all your dacs sounding different...do they measure the same (within accepted levels of human audibility)? Because if they do, then once again I refer you to imagination space.
 
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