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TV Sales Dying?

beefkabob

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Exactly. And that's why LCD TVs without LED backlights are universally known as CFL TVs.


I see what you did there, and you go too far, sir!

You see what I did because you're not blind like Blumlein.

CFL backlight + LCD screen = LCD
LED backlight + LCD screen = LED
CRT + phosphorus layer = CRT
OLED = OLED
Plasma = Plasma
And so on. Random naming.
Color wheels, DLP, LED, laser, xenon, etc...
 

Blumlein 88

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Maybe we can switch to projectors. DLP vs LCD vs some of the newer stuff like LED vs incandescent vs laser. After that we can argue about screens to project upon.

Oh, for those using DLP, do you see and are you bothered by the rainbow effect?
 

vitalii427

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Maybe we can switch to projectors. DLP vs LCD vs some of the newer stuff like LED vs incandescent vs laser. After that we can argue about screens to project upon.

Oh, for those using DLP, do you see and are you bothered by the rainbow effect?
Me bothered. But this is not the problem of DLP itself but only 1-chip projectors. IMAX uses 3-chip DLP with no rainbow at all.
 

LTig

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Maybe we can switch to projectors. DLP vs LCD vs some of the newer stuff like LED vs incandescent vs laser. After that we can argue about screens to project upon.

Oh, for those using DLP, do you see and are you bothered by the rainbow effect?
No.
 

Dogen

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I just can’t see watching much video on a phone or tablet. Part of the fun is the immersive experience, which doesn’t sound compatible with a tiny screen. Yet, lots of people seem satisfied with it. It is ironic. Video resolution going up, screen sizes shrinking.
 

Wes

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ok, I have #3

3. if screen prices fall far enough then people will buy multiple screens to hang for active photo (or browser) displays just as we hang photog. prints now

- don't hold yer breath waiting tho
 

Blumlein 88

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Me bothered. But this is not the problem of DLP itself but only 1-chip projectors. IMAX uses 3-chip DLP with no rainbow at all.
When a friend got his first DLP the rainbow effect was horrid to me. I couldn't see how he could sit there and watch it. Curiously, after maybe 3 hrs combined viewing time I learned not to see it. I guess I learned not to move my eyes in a way that would uncover it. Of course modern DLP has more color segments and spins faster much reducing the rainbow effect. Still out the corner of my eye I catch a glimpse of it from time to time. And yes, if you can pony up for a 3 chip projector there is no rainbow effect. Though you might get picture softness from imperfect convergence.

I forgot to mention the other problem from early home projectors. The dreaded screen door effect.
 

vitalii427

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When a friend got his first DLP the rainbow effect was horrid to me. I couldn't see how he could sit there and watch it. Curiously, after maybe 3 hrs combined viewing time I learned not to see it. I guess I learned not to move my eyes in a way that would uncover it. Of course modern DLP has more color segments and spins faster much reducing the rainbow effect. Still out the corner of my eye I catch a glimpse of it from time to time. And yes, if you can pony up for a 3 chip projector there is no rainbow effect. Though you might get picture softness from imperfect convergence.

I forgot to mention the other problem from early home projectors. The dreaded screen door effect.
Perception level of rainbow effect is individual as I know it. I’ve tested it on my friends. Some cannot see it at all. But not me :confused:
 

Martin

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Remember the sony wire... trinitube?

My last CRT and first HDTV was a Sony 36" Trinitron WEGA TV with the collapsible raster that would display a full 1080i 16:9 image on the 4:3 screen. It had a great picture. The thing weighed over 200lbs. I had to basically give it away to get rid of it.

Martin
 

Robin L

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My last CRT and first HDTV was a Sony 36" Trinitron WEGA TV with the collapsible raster that would display a full 1080i 16:9 image on the 4:3 screen. It had a great picture. The thing weighed over 200lbs. I had to basically give it away to get rid of it.

Martin
Got a 13" Trinitron at Amvets for $1. Needed it to navigate menus on my DVD and Blu-Ray players. Glad to get rid of it. I remember when those TVs were about as good as it gets. But that was a long time ago.
 

bigx5murf

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I was quite tempted today by a NOS Panasonic plasma today.
 

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MattHooper

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I was obsessed with Plasma TVs when they first came on the market and spent a ton of cash on a 3rd generation model in 2001. It was an "ED" plasma for "Extended Definition" - essentially DVD resolution. Hi-Def hadn't become common yet. It was fun being the George Jetson of the neighborhood for a while, until flat panel TVs caught on. At the time a 42" diagonal image was HUGE. It felt cinematic.

As plasmas and LEDs got larger over time I had figured on upgrading to a larger HD Panasonic plasma - the 65"version. But then I got the projection bug and bypassed upgrading the TV to doing a whole reno of my 2 channel listening room to accommodate a projection based home theater (12 foot wide screen, 4 way automatic masking, JVC projector etc). Never looked back.

That old Plasma is still in occasional use in our family room. Amazingly enough for all the hand wringing at the time about the longevity of the technology, fears of burn in, this early generation model is still going almost 20 years later and has no signs of burn in! We added a larger LED TV in the basement for the kids.

Naturally the kids and my wife watch a lot of stuff on their laptops. But we also watch tons of movies (and some TV) together on the big screen.

As for general watching habits, I don't really know exactly how my friends and extended family spend their watching time and on what. But I can say plenty of friends love coming over to watch movies and sports events on the big screen. My place was jammed last night for the UFC!
 

scott wurcer

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Remember the sony wire... trinitube?

That was the greatest example of "once you see it you can't not see it". I loved my Trinitons in their day I stayed in up to the full component version.
 

Tks

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I doubt that TV sales are dying or will die in the foreseeable future. What HAS died is the market for high priced premium "Brand Name" TV. 10 years ago flat panel TVs over $1000 were a mass market item. What changed is that great TV technology is now available for $200.

There is nothing at all wrong with the smart TVs put out by TCL/Hisense/Element etc. for prices that would seem to barely cover the shipping.

There will always be a few souls who are willing to pay 5 times as much for a performance increase that most viewers would not even notice. The same is true in audio. So yes...the market for and profitability of Premium brand TVs like Panasonic has dropped a lot. Any profit now seems to come from streaming services/platforms like Roku and Echo enabled TV...rather than the hardware.

As they should. I've been complaining about stagnating television progress in the same sort of light as stagnating CPU clock frequency improvements (they are happening, but just incredibly slow).

And it's not just TV's themselves, the display makers, the I/O industry, the bodies responsible for standards (now you have tons of "standards" and a bunch of segmentation. See the mess that I doubt will be unfucked with respect to HDR "standards" in the next decade for example).

Big boys aren't able to play on the ignorance of people as much. With the internet, more people are informed about their purchases, and not at the whim of salesmen on the floor of the TV section of an electronics store. As long as TV's like this Vizio Quantum-X series exists, the big boys will keep having trouble, as even the brands thought to be generic prior, are slowly starting to creep into the high end, just without too much of a high-end price so much.
 

MattHooper

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As they should. I've been complaining about stagnating television progress in the same sort of light as stagnating CPU clock frequency improvements (they are happening, but just incredibly slow).

Stagnating?

We now have 4K HDR as the norm, with 8K as a possible new standard coming in. (Even if that doesn't happen, 4K mostly covers what people can see in most situations). TV technology has vastly upped it's game, and fairly recently in the timeline for TV.

If someone is complaining about television progress I am inclined to put that in to the "never satisfied" category ;-)
 

xr100

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Me bothered. But this is not the problem of DLP itself but only 1-chip projectors. IMAX uses 3-chip DLP with no rainbow at all.

3-chip DLP projection is standard in the commercial cinema (i.e. DCI-compliant) market. IMAX do have proprietary technologies but that's not one of them.
 

xr100

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I still have the last and greatest ZT65 plasma delivered from US in 2013. It’s picture quality still stands strong vs my other set - LG OLED. 1080p plasma still unbeaten in moving scene sharpness even with 8K LCD/OLED

I, too, still have an old Panasonic Full HD plasma (alas not the "last and greatest" series model.) Fantastic, but alas plasmas have reached obsolescence with the new HDR standards.
 

xr100

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Panasonic still makes TVs? I thought they only made nose hair trimmers and wireless home phone systems nowadays.

Panasonic Corp. revenue is ~USD70bn. (Source: Wikipedia, which I think will do for this.) Surely not due to impressive market share in nose trimmers and cordless phones...

Consumer electronics markets with razor-thin margins are not a good place to be. OLED production in China is about to be ramped up...
 

MattHooper

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3-chip DLP projection is standard in the commercial cinema (i.e. DCI-compliant) market. IMAX do have proprietary technologies but that's not one of them.

I was sensitive to the rainbow effect and watching 1chip DLP front or rear projection was brutal.

I thought 3 chip DLP was supposed to solve the issue but was totally surprised to detect rainbows when I viewed a consumer 3chip DLP projector.
Didn't make sense but when the technical aspects were hashed out on the AVSforum it turned out that it was indeed possible for the rainbow artifact to appear in some 3chip implementations. ETA: It wasn't exactly rainbow but a similar "breaking up image" effect.

I was always heavy in to black levels and overall contrast so I went the JVC projector route once I got in to projection.
 
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