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Notice how the contrails in the clouds form a perfect T which points directly at the Entreq headquarters. I wonder if his devices somehow cause that to be a permanent feature there?
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Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements
- Thread starter amirm
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Since the measurement methodologies aren't developed enough, as yet, to measure the lack of distortion which is key, subjective listening is the answer. System generated distortion locates, subjectively, at the surface of the driver, so "good enough" is when the speaker driver is not detectable as a source of sound, when listening. A related effect is that a true mono source always tracks one's position in front of the stereo speakers, irrespective of location - these are easily "measured" parameters, behaviours that I have used for 3 decades, and that I'm using right now for my current NAD project ... and what I would use if I were to listen to any of the systems of the members here.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #183
Other than the bottom of the line, they run in thousands (especially if you get all the accessories with them like earthing wires and interconnects). The Entreq Olympus Minimus that I tested retails for $2,600 by itself.
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So how do you know a given speaker is capable of that if everything else is up to snuff?
That was one of the major insights I acquired from playing with so many different setups - like most people I thought that having an excellent speaker would be absolutely key, but the, to me, most remarkable result is that the speaker "quality" is a relatively low order requirement. Provided that it is fundamentally sound, that the internal wiring is properly sorted - meaning that all connections are soldered, that the wiring is tied down securely so that it doesn't just flop around with the carcase vibrating, that the parts on the crossover are of decent quality, and are well secured - all, sensible engineering considerations are taken care of - then the speakers should be "good enough". Then, I stabilise the speaker carcase, by mass loading it sometimes, and giving the vibrations of the carcase a path to drain the energy to a much larger mass. This is the "secret" of the Wilson type speakers, having so much mass and damping is a critical part of getting the subjective performance.
Detlof
Member
Why Keith?
Do " changes over time" not exist in this universe here or if they do are but the figments of a conveniently conjured up " unconscious " that has muddled up the sensory perceptions of the unfortunate listener?
Do " changes over time" not exist in this universe here or if they do are but the figments of a conveniently conjured up " unconscious " that has muddled up the sensory perceptions of the unfortunate listener?
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Detlof
Member
Wow!
Keith, what is a barrowmaster? Please enlighten
Keith, what is a barrowmaster? Please enlighten
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Please focus on the subject at hand and/or on having fun with each other at least. I don't want to see members calling for bannings in public. We do have a comprehensive ignore feature, I advise those distressed by others posting content to utilise this excellent feature.
Please focus on the subject at hand and/or on having fun with each other at least. I don't want to see members calling for bannings in public. We do have a comprehensive ignore feature, I advise those distressed by others posting content to utilise this excellent feature.
How can you argue against what Frank does, he never tells you how he actually modifies equipment, it is meant to be the Audio Science Review, not Franks LaLa land.
Keith
Keith
Yea I agree Keith , discourse with Frank on these issues are rendered inane by the circular nature of discussion combined with the startling lack of substance offered.
We are a evidence based forum, franks been given latitude by me as all I asked him for was pictures of his various 'techniques ' so we could see what he was doing at least but alas this was met with evasion as you know.
However is not your place to stomp round the forum making demands for members to be banned in multiple threads.
Just ignore frank or highlight his posts as nonsense..
Back to the op now please...,
D component specifications can drift over time, until they eventually fail, but unless the components are being unnecessarily stressed by por design this process takes tens of years.
Burn in for the art doesn't exist, and it is purely your ears becoming accustomed to the new sound.
Keith
OP
- Thread Starter
- #192
There are likelihood of both: equipment sound audibly changing and one being mistake in hearing the same. We have a way of adjudicating that here which is to determine what you think you are hearing without knowing the identity of what is there. Lacking that, we have to rely on objective data that says a) this device is not making an audible improvement per measurements in the OP and b) human listeners are routinely wrong about hearing such differences. Hence Keith's comment.
Detlof
Member
Thank you Amir for taking the time to respond. I have no trouble at all to accept the validity of both your central points. Only I would suggest, that if objective data are not forthcoming, so many folks here as well as in other places jump to point b, in fact making a dogma out of it, as if it were an unshakable truth. I would rather put it more carefully, that there is a certain probability that point b could apply. Research points into that direction, but each case should, if possible, be examined more closely for its merits. Not that it is always possible, and in the case of " magic clocks " et al ridiculous and a waste of time of course. But I think there is enough empirical evidence around that jumping to point b should not in every case be quasi automatic in spite of all the improbabilities which our hobby is inundated with.
Detlof
Member
This one is tricky. To my mind it can be nothing but subjective. We all hear differently, have different preferences, different rigs. Ever try to measure happyness? It is impossible. To me, what Frank is telling is like a traveloge. I enjoy the story, can perhaps imagine the landscape, would perhaps like to go there myself, but would of course be disappointed if I had expected a geological or geographic or even a socioeconomic treatise of the region visited. I like it, because it is storytelling, intelligent storytelling, so it seems to me, no more, no less.
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How about looking at the Room Recordings Two thread. I have replied to the above there as discussing speakers seems more on topic there than in a thread about grounding devices.
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Plenty of places to read audiophile stories. I wouldn't turn to Scientific American expecting travelogues. I don't think such story telling is the focus of this forum. Even then if this is an audiophile's journey I expect some coherent real pay off in the end or would wonder why this stuff is posted.
I think most posters here are well past being intrigued by those saying they have the secret sauce to good sound. Just trust me I'll dribble it out to you and in the end you have to believe or you won't get it. If you have the secret sauce it will work if it is real so just spill the beans. We have seen all too much of such stuff before and it disappears into the mist with any investigation just like the myth most of it is.
Next your going to tell me Harry Potter and the philosophers stone was not a documentary
Blumlein wouldn't dare...Next your going to tell me Harry Potter and the philosophers stone was not a documentary
Detlof
Member
That makes sense to me, seeing it from your perspective.
The "secret sauce" is near fanatical attention to detail, and worrying about the impact of everything. Since this is not trivial to apply, nor purchasable from a website at silly prices, it doesn't make sense to many - however, it is extremely reliable, IME - long-winded, fiddly and frustrating, yes; but extremely satisfying when it comes together.
In Olympic terms this is not 100 metres sprint stuff - it's putting in the effort, and using the right tactics, to come first in the marathon ...
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