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KEF Blade 2 Meta review by Erin's Audio Corner

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jhaider

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I ask would the appearance of these beautiful but very unusual looking loudspeakers satisfy over the long term or would the design become overpowering and unloved over time? I'm starting to think the later.

I think the bigger issue is they’re underdesigned in a way that all but guarantees driver damage at some point in any normal person’s home. Thin metal cone drivers and no grilles even available is just terrible design for longevity.
 

CleanSound

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but one thing that differentiates us from others competing for this audience is that our host didn't start this forum for the money, and doesn't need it to survive quite well.
That is a luxury to have but glad it is put into use for the greater good of the community. :)
 

Ciobi69

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Its going off topic in not a good way i appreciate a lot both amir and erin they are the only 2 in the world making this.
 

jhaider

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This is all optical/sighted bias in my opinion and something I consistently hear from pure subjectivist reviewers.

IMO that’s little different from your comments in your review of the big Genelec comparing them to Salon2 about how the bigger speakers sound bigger. I don’t think either is out of line.

Sure it’s optical/sighted bias, but it’s also pervasive and a fact of life when you’re using something that you pretty much have to look at.
 

dfuller

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I think the bigger issue is they’re underdesigned in a way that all but guarantees driver damage at some point in any normal person’s home. Thin metal cone drivers and no grilles even available is just terrible design for longevity.
That is an issue for sure, arguably more of an issue because the drivers are low to the floor.
 

MattHooper

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Real, live music never has such precision anyway. Instruments are in different locations and the overall experience in any large presentation space is dominated by reflections so it is diffused. Indeed, not having it diffused would be a bad thing as your brain notices this instrument is there, and another one in a different place than experiencing a holistic presentation.

Are we expecting our sound systems to mimic real sound sources to produce realistic sound? Or are we just trying to accurately reproduce the nature of the recording, which may well contain such exaggeratedly precise imaging?

I thought ASR generally tilted towards the latter.
 

Kal Rubinson

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In an attempt to redirect the discussion to the speakers in question I ask would the appearance of these beautiful but very unusual looking loudspeakers satisfy over the long term or would the design become overpowering and unloved over time? I'm starting to think the later.
What sort of time-span do you have in mind?
 

Blockader

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I agree with everything Amir has said. However, we are seeing the situation from a moral high ground and failing to understand Erin's circumstances or see things from Erin's perspective.

Erin does not have the economic freedom that Amir have. Amir has worked for Microsoft and has been an embedded engineer in the U.S. for a long time. He can afford to conduct these reviews purely to inform people. I don't think he cares about that but ASR serves as an unintentional, non-directional advertisement for Madrona Digital, given that he owns both entities.

In contrast, Erin does not have the financial freedom to conduct reviews solely as a hobby, to merely inform people, or to enhance rational thought within the audio community. He is obviously preparing reviews to make this his full-time job. (I know that he does not aim to make money out of YT ads but Amazon affiliated links) Recently He began his audio reviews focusing on the subjective aspect first because that's what his audience demands. In the past, he did not emphasize subjective analysis as much, but now he is responding to what his audience wants. Despite this, Erin manages to strike a balance between informed-subjectivity and objectivity so beautifully that, personally, I do not mind it 99% of the time. Most of the time, he builds bridges between perceived audio quality differences and measurements, teaching his audience how to predict the sound quality of speakers based on their measurements. I also believe that the subjective opinions of someone who understands measurements are always valuable. Let me provide a few examples where subjective opinions can be beneficial and can light few details that may be hard to see within measurements:

1- Preference ratings do not include dispersion pattern of speakers. Speakers with the same preference score, one with wide dispersion and the other with narrow dispersion, will sound very different. Narrow dispersion speakers may perform better with electronic music, which includes many clearly audible phase tricks between channels, while wide dispersion speakers will blend into the room more seamlessly with classical music. These nuances cannot be discerned through measurements alone because this depends on the music too. Someone needs to convey this information, or one must experience it firsthand. In such cases, subjective opinions can be beneficial for the audience.

2- Narrow vertical dispersion(or overall narrow dispersion) can increase the direct/indirect sound ratio, enhancing the detail in the presentation. This enhancement isn't readily visible in measurements, as the angle at which sound reflects off surfaces influences its Interaural Cross-Correlation(IACC in short), and thus the overall sound quality/perceived detail. It's possible to learn about how the directional characteristics of speakers affect reflections with varying IACCs and their contribution to sound quality. However, grasping the impact of these directivity characteristics on the perceived sound quality without actually hearing the speakers, or without a significant amount of experience with different speakers and an understanding of how their measurements relate to sound perception, can be a complex task. The subjective insights of someone who understands both the concept of IACC and speaker measurements, and how to relate these to perceived sound quality, can be very useful. This can allow you to experience speakers without hearing them better. Or better to say, this can allow the reader/listener to predict the sound quality of speakers without hearing them more accurately. Preference ratings do not factor the IACC of reflections.

I can list more points where subjective opinions of someone who knows how to relate measurements to the perceived sound quality can be beneficial. Subjective opinions can help us to conceptualize the things we haven't experienced yet. If subjective opinions are conveyed by someone who doesn't know a little bit of sound reproduction and audio science, they'll almost always be useless and misleading however someone like Erin or Amir's subjective opinions are always valuable for me.

In conclusion, Erin's financial dependence on his audience and published reviews frequently places him in challenging situations. To generate income, Erin needs to maintain the popularity and relatability, a constraint Amir is free from. I think, this freedom allows Amir to present his evidence-based approach to audio reviewing in a more blunt way than all other reviewers. Erin, on the other hand, encounters criticism from his viewers for not giving precedence to subjective opinions, and again, when he voices his skepticism regarding the audible differences between amplifiers that measure moderately well. This economic necessity has driven Erin to actively promote each of his reviews on ASR, aiming to attract new subscribers to his channel. It was not ideal but he did that. Despite a few instances, the way Erin handles these challenges, striking a balance between the objective truth and his audience's preferences, and how he guides people toward trusting measurements, showcases his integrity. I fail to understand why there is a campaign to dislike him or even to push his reviews out of these forums. In my view, he is one of 'us' — one of those who strive to correlate our experiences with measurements and recognize the value of deepening our understanding of audio science. This approach aids us in finding better paths to enjoying music more than before. There's more people to dislike in this community than Erin, Erin should be one of the last persons in the community that we should dislike and actually I enjoy supporting him and promoting him as much as possible. I think he is overall a decent person, his measurements have top notch quality and I like to talk about measurements and find a relation between them and how I experience things. Erin's measurements help me with that as much as Amir's measurements do. Why can't we like both?

My english is far from being native level, I may have reflected my opinions in a way different than how I feel. Please do keep that in mind.
 
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Triliza

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Why is Erin not allowed to be as subjective as he likes in the subjective part of his reviews yet people on here are subjective all the time?
It's more like how much value his subjective evaluation have and how should we interpreted them. Same is true for Amir's subjective comments, he seems to be very conscious about the limitations of the procedure, and has taken some steps to optimize the outcome as much as possible, single speaker, same position, room mode correction, room temperature, suitable music tracks for evaluation and so on.

Erin's strong preference for deep bass and wide soundstage affects his feeling for a speaker, that's something we should take into account to make sense of his opinion. I am thankful for his measurements, but on the other hand I can understand some people being skeptical about sponsors, affiliated links, patreon and all that, such things can burden a reviewer and spill into the outcome one way or another.
 

Somafunk

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Are we expecting our sound systems to mimic real sound sources to produce realistic sound?

I don’t think any of what I listen to consists of “real” sound, electronic music has some wicked 909 kick drum sounds - and a 303 does percussion rather good so I guess that counts ;)
 
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thewas

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Let me guess: you are the type that goes to a party, tells the host he didn't like the food at the end after eating a ton of it, and urinates on the way out on the lawn. :(
If you have that impression of me after all my contribution here and think that criticising the items often reviewed in an ironic reply to a post where I had been accused to be an agent is such a behaviour, well what can I say... :( By the way as I am sure you are aware of ASR not only lives from your well respected reviews but also from the donations and even more content contributions of its members, so its not a one way profit relation like a party where people just come to take advantage of it.

And you say this after I just got down reviewing two speakers? Another KEF and an Ascend? That didn't interest you either and we are supposed to give you a thumbs up for demanding I test what you want to see?
I wonder how someone can jump to such a conclusion. I honestly enjoyed those reviews :) and hope this path will be continued and didn't demand any test or thumbs up.

When Erin initially put copyright notices on his graphs, I had Adam specifically ask him if he is doing that to keep his content from being used here. He said not at all and so we have allowed that. We also have implied permission from stereophile to hot link to their measurements as long as a link is provided to the full review (US law allows hotlinking even without this but as a professional courtesy, I like to follow their suggestion). And keep in mind that neither I, nor the membership quotes entire set of measurements from stereophile.

Taking snapshots of his video though, is not covered by above. While some amount of this is covered by fair use, extracting every measurement he has and posting it here, may not be so. I highly suggest you get written permission from Erin for doing this. You are taking away views from his video this way and he may not be OK with it. When you have that permission, share that with me and moderators. Otherwise, I highly suggest you limit your quoting to minimum needed to convey a point in the review. Doing otherwise may subject you to sanctions as stated in our terms of service: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?help/terms/
The funny thing is that I did such so people don't necessarily need to go to his videos and because of the negative atmosphere of some here around his person to be not accused as an "Erin agent" like as happened in this thread.

But since your worry is well reasoned I just contacted him per text (had to find how as I never had a direct contact with him before) and he replied (also per text) that the entire purpose of him publishing data (in any format) is for public consumption, it’s important to him that people see data (and most importantly) have a way to correlate that with what they hear, so I am free to share wherever I want and thus have "his permission”. He added also that he would only ever have an issue with it if someone tried to make money off his work which so far has not happened, though.

I have sent proof of that per PM to you and your mods.

Happy Eastern holiday to all, although I really wonder about myself why I stay up late at night for such
 
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Vacceo

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At this point I've heard enough about Erin to last me for a while.

In an attempt to redirect the discussion to the speakers in question I ask would the appearance of these beautiful but very unusual looking loudspeakers satisfy over the long term or would the design become overpowering and unloved over time? I'm starting to think the later.
With a choice of peculiar anything (from dishes to speakers or furniture), it's a far better idea to actually like it because of the peculiarity, not in spite of it.

You can get plenty of incredibly performing, more conventional speakers that you will not eventually hate.

I'd get them both because I like the design and the performance is the kind I enjoy (narrow directivity and very linear).
 

mglobe

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If you have that impression of me after all my contribution here and think that criticising the items often reviewed in an ironic reply to a post where I had been accused to be an agent is such a behaviour, well what can I say... :( By the way as I am sure you are aware of ASR not only lives from your well respected reviews but also from the donations and even more content contributions of its members, so its not a one way profit relation like a party where people just come to take advantage of it.


I wonder how someone can jump to such a conclusion. I honestly enjoyed those reviews :) and hope this path will be continued and didn't demand any test or thumbs up.


The funny thing is that I did such so people don't necessarily need to go to his videos and because of the negative atmosphere of some here around his person to be not accused as an "Erin agent" like as happened in this thread.

But since your worry is well reasoned I just contacted him per text (had to find how as I never had a direct contact with him before) and he replied (also per text) that the entire purpose of him publishing data (in any format) is for public consumption, it’s important to him that people see data (and most importantly) have a way to correlate that with what they hear, so I am free to share wherever I want and thus have "his permission”. He added also that he would only ever have an issue with it if someone tried to make money off his work which so far has not happened, though.

I have sent proof of that per PM to you and your mods.

Happy Eastern holiday to all, although I really wonder about myself why I stay up late at night for such
Well said.
 

mj30250

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You never see such disclaims in Erin's videos. Heck, you don't even know where the product came from.
With respect, this is factually incorrect. He provides attribution to the party of origin in several videos, and in every written review that I've spot-checked at random.

For example, the first line of the Kef Blade 2 Meta written review:

"I was loaned these from the manufacturer."

Triangle Borea BR03 review:

"I was loaned these from a viewer for review."

JBL L52:

"I was loaned these from a viewer."

KEF LS60:

"Given I couldn’t find anyone to loan a pair but had so many requests for reviewing the LS60, I purchased these myself to review. "

Buchardt S400 MKII:

"I was loaned these from the manufacturer for review."

Neumann KH 80:

"I was loaned these from a Patron to review." He also provides attribution in the accompanying video.
 

MattHooper

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With respect, this is factually incorrect. He provides attribution to the party of origin in several videos, and in every written review that I've spot-checked at random.

For example, the first line of the Kef Blade 2 Meta written review:

"I was loaned these from the manufacturer."

Triangle Borea BR03 review:

"I was loaned these from a viewer for review."

JBL L52:

"I was loaned these from a viewer."

KEF LS60:

"Given I couldn’t find anyone to loan a pair but had so many requests for reviewing the LS60, I purchased these myself to review. "

Buchardt S400 MKII:

"I was loaned these from the manufacturer for review."

Neumann KH 80:

"I was loaned these from a Patron to review." He also provides attribution in the accompanying video.

Yup. As someone who watches Erin's videos that claim puzzled me too.
 

BrokenEnglishGuy

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The IMD from Blades looks better than the R metas, im not sure if this is wrong but the crossover region has kind of worse imd in the R case, may be the better complex crossover? the more aggresive slope in References and Blades ?

mton%2080.png



mton-80.png
 

tmtomh

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The criticism of Erin's subjective comments is just stupid. You can ignore his subjective comments as you wish, just as you can ignore Amir's listening-test section of his reviews. And in many of his videos - and all of the videos of his I've seen recently - he provides time stamps for the subjective comments and the objective/measurement section, So you don't even have to search around in the video to skip the subjective stuff.
 
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