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DEQX Premate 8 digital active crossover / DSP
- Thread starter Keith_W
- Start date
noiseangel
Active Member
Doesn't look like there are any cables connected to the new DEQX and the old ones underneath are powered up. So I am assuming DEQX still does not have a working model of the new one they could even demonstrate at the show. Why isn't there one with the top off to show people whats inside? This thread sounds like a promo for vaporware. DEQX keep on shifting the release date much like the the long awaited cyber truck.
I think when someone says they didn't start a thread to promote "said product" means they started thread to promote said product. Maybe trying to get a freebie? Or becoe a middle aged influencer?
I think when someone says they didn't start a thread to promote "said product" means they started thread to promote said product. Maybe trying to get a freebie? Or becoe a middle aged influencer?
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noiseangel
Active Member
After finding out the price of the DEQX, I think it is too expensive to recommend for anybody who wants to dip their toes into DSP. I am still going to recommend MiniDSP as a starting point, and then upgrade to something else (maybe DEQX, maybe software based) depending on their situation.
So you started the thread to criticise the product and not recommend their product after speaking to the owner? I bet the owner of DEQX is happy with that.
Did you tell him after speaking to him as the unofficial Stereonet HiFi show reporter that you would be posting on ASR that you would not be recommending his product and you would be criticizing him and recommending other products?
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OP
Keith_W
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #46
1. No, I did not start the thread to criticize the product. I started it to raise awareness of the product and explain its position in the market. This has to include recognizing what it does well, and what it does not, and I think I have provided a reasonably balanced commentary on this.
2. Yes, I told him I would post on ASR. I sent them the link to this thread via email. They may or may not drop in to comment themselves, but most likely not. I have never seen them participate in any forum anywhere.
3. I told Kim Ryrie "I would like to recommend DEQX as an alternative to MiniDSP. But I can't do that when it costs $12,000".
Accusing me of corruption and trying to get freebies from DEQX is unnecessary and over the top. I demand a retraction and an apology.
MiniDSP is perfectly open about their FIR implementation, which for the Flex series is 4096 total with a max of 2048 per channel. See https://docs.minidsp.com/product-manuals/flex/dsp-reference/fir-filtering.html. So half that of the DeqX
Realistically more taps cause more delay in the signal (2048/44.1k is 46mS already), which is why long FIR filters are really only useful for pure audio playback - they will mess with video lip-sync, live sound, monitoring or anything else requiring time synchronisation.
Do you actually own anything Australian made because I get the impression you look down on us aussie manufacturers as not being capable of competing with the imports ?
cheers
OP
Keith_W
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #50
Here we have in the same thread, one guy accusing me of being a shill for DEQX, and another accusing me of looking down on them for being Australian! FYI, I replaced the SEAS drivers in my speakers with Lorantz drivers. I have owned amplifiers made by SGR, ME, and Micrex (now Supratek). I owned Audio Definition speakers and kept them for 11 years. And as mentioned, I have owned a DEQX.
Now, I would like to ask you why you thought it would be relevant to drive the thread off-topic by attacking me personally instead of the points that I made? This kind of behaviour is the real reason you were banned from stereonet, and it will get you banned from other forums too. Stick to the discussion please, and if you want to attack something, attack what I have said about the DEQX and keep it on topic.
I really don’t understand who should buy the DEQX pre? What kind of a DIY speaker system would you even need to justify the cost? Even something with multi Purify woofers would dwarf the crossover in price. That just doesn’t make sense… and then you’ll still needs the amps. For about the same money you can get a pair of Genelec 8362As, throw in a streamer and your done for everything. That would be a way better deal.
OP
Keith_W
Major Contributor
- Thread Starter
- #52
Yep, I totally agree. the problem with MiniDSP's hardware is not with the quality of the DAC chips or its implementation, but its lack of processing power and limitations of its software. Having said that, I have said earlier in the thread that it is the user who makes the most difference and NOT necessarily the quality of the hardware, or even what DSP features are available. Well designed filters on a MiniDSP will outperform poorly designed filters on even the most high end platform. This is why I keep banging on about software, difficult software WILL make it harder to make good filters and increase the chance of user error. MiniDSP software is easy to use (as far as DSP software goes!), it's just limited for power users. MiniDSP is an excellent product at a compelling price point. But if you want something better, there are alternatives. This thread is about discussing one of the alternatives.
Yeah, I struggle to understand who their target market is. But I know they have already sold a hundred units (one of the DEQX guys let that slip) so the market is obviously out there.
(edit) and BTW I have put a couple of members on ignore and will no longer be replying to them. I have no need to defend myself.
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If it's diy just stick to mindsp. What's the problem ?? This is one of the reasons I am reluctant to get back into making this type of product because as soon as you mention DSP it automatically becomes a race to the bottom and there is just no satisfying some people no matter what you do and how many features and performance you add to it and because of that I have been working on other things in parallel and trying hard to decide whether or not I should release another one. Now I am starting to have second thoughts
noiseangel
Active Member
The above posts are the reason you shouldn't bother. I'm sure at least one if not both of the people who have had a go at you have approached you for cheaper cheaper cheaper.
If it's that easy then they can do it themselves. But it's not. So they don't because they can't. Instead they sling mud at those that do. You are still the only one who has a complete list of measurements on their forum about there products performance.
If it's that easy then they can do it themselves. But it's not. So they don't because they can't. Instead they sling mud at those that do. You are still the only one who has a complete list of measurements on their forum about there products performance.
JSmith
Master Contributor
First there are the people who have too much money. Price simply isn't an issue for them, appearance and ease of use will be. They will buy from a prestigious retail establishment.
Then there are those who aren't driven to build a DIY system at minimum cost or even at a performance/cost target. They may still look for some semblance of value, but are not all that price-sensitive. I know several people who reached an age where they bought a Jaguar because they thought it may be last last car they ever owned. Bear in mind that the US$12k figure is a retail sticker and will be part of a thoughtful pricing strategy. It's very hard to launch a product at $6k and then increase it to $12k, but much easier to launch at $12k and offer introductory discounts to see how sales progress. At $6k, the DEQX is not far from the Trinnov Nova once you've paid for all the extra channels of room EQ.
Then there are people like me. I'm a hobby woodworker who enjoys building speakers. Unfortunately, I'm completely incompetent at designing crossovers or anything else electrical, so DSP is the answer if I'm to build my own design. While a Flex Eight may well meet my needs, the DEQX surpasses them in style, and I would pay more for a product that I thought would last me to the end of my days. Sooner or later, I'll build another pair of speakers, because that's what I enjoy doing, and I'll be able to use the DEQX again.
Then there are the people who already have one or more pairs of passive speakers that they are very fond of and would like to try using with active DSP. Again, they may prefer something more up-scale than miniDSP.
Oh, and those Genelec's are pretty fugly!
I'm not saying that the categories I've suggested above are beyond criticism - just that it's different strokes for different folks.
It’s literally only half the FIR taps of the DeqX (2048 vs 4096 per channel). What other lacks would you point to?
There is no problem, or, at least I don’t have one
. I just don’t understand what exactly the target audience is? Passive speakers don’t need multichannel DSP, and active speakers come with everything included already. Multi-sub systems maybe? Why would you spend so much money on SOTA performance for a few subs?Would you pay that much more though? Just get a spare Flex
Sure, there are always these people. If that’s the market, fine, just don’t start complaining here that the DSP market is a race too the bottom of the barrel.
I think reality is way more nuanced. Fact is that there is either bottom of the barrel, or high-end. In between is a giant wasteland! Why not build a < $ 2000 DSP solutions. You’ll probably be able to get to 95% of the performance of a more expensive one, and I bet it would sell a whole lot better. I bet several people in this thread would seriously consider buying one.
Was a DEQX product ever discounted that much? How many years would you have to wait for that to happen? It would also destroy resale value.
And let’s just face it, this forum’s audience is not the kind of people that generally spend thousands of $€£ on these kinds of products.
Obviously the DEQX isn't aimed at the DIY market. The case alone, and which is very expensive to manufacture, tells us that.
The DIY market is generally not a lucrative market to aim for. I have had people contacting me about buying our midrange or midbass horn separately and they offer me often less than the building price of the horn alone .They have little understanding of the cost of developing and manufacturing. Only the software we're using cost several thousand dollars. And you spend years in development with several prototypes.
Plus DIYers will generally want assistance, and they expect you to do that for free.
The DIY market is generally not a lucrative market to aim for. I have had people contacting me about buying our midrange or midbass horn separately and they offer me often less than the building price of the horn alone .They have little understanding of the cost of developing and manufacturing. Only the software we're using cost several thousand dollars. And you spend years in development with several prototypes.
Plus DIYers will generally want assistance, and they expect you to do that for free.
Looking at it from a business perspective...the obvious and natural market for a new release of any product is your existing customer base (like me!!!)
So by going from $US 5K to $US 12K means you almost guarantee that these existing customers will not buy an upgrade.
Sure they have a super duper intro price of $US 6K but this is a beta product at that price... sure some % of your existing customer base might bite on this but I doubt many will (i.e. kick out your existing DEQX BUT dont sell it cause maybe the new beta product has issues so you need to stick the current DEQX back in while the dust settles).
Also this is such a niche part of the audiophile spectrum that selling your existing DEQX to fund the purchase of the new one (even at the intro price) will still need ~$US 5.
I wanted to upgrade but not into a beta and certainly not into the 12k full retail.
So its either camilla and a multichannel DAC or a MInidsp.
As other have noted, its a desert out there... maybe the pro market has stuff?
Peter
So by going from $US 5K to $US 12K means you almost guarantee that these existing customers will not buy an upgrade.
Sure they have a super duper intro price of $US 6K but this is a beta product at that price... sure some % of your existing customer base might bite on this but I doubt many will (i.e. kick out your existing DEQX BUT dont sell it cause maybe the new beta product has issues so you need to stick the current DEQX back in while the dust settles).
Also this is such a niche part of the audiophile spectrum that selling your existing DEQX to fund the purchase of the new one (even at the intro price) will still need ~$US 5.
I wanted to upgrade but not into a beta and certainly not into the 12k full retail.
So its either camilla and a multichannel DAC or a MInidsp.
As other have noted, its a desert out there... maybe the pro market has stuff?
Peter
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