Is it possible to use EQ and have bitperfect output at the same time?

[bloodevil]

Hi all, I'm trying to get the best out of my Topping E30, I'm using it with foobar and I'm also using Peace to apply EQ.
Now the problem is that in order to apply EQ on foobar I need to select Wasapi-shared as my output, however this doesn't allow me to have bit-perfect playback. Is there a way to sort this out? Cause if I select Wasapi-event it gives me bit-perfect playback but it doesn't allow any DSP.
Thanks in advance

 

[DVDdoug]

Not with digital EQ... If you are changing the sound (digitally) you are changing the bits!

 

[antcollinet]

Well, no.

Bit perfect means the data is sent to the dac - totally unchanged - bit perfect.

EQ - by defintion - means you want to change the data.

 

[bloodevil]

Not with digital EQ... If you are changing the sound (digitally) you are changing the bits!

Makes sense, ahaha total newbie

 

[antcollinet]

Makes sense, ahaha total newbie

No problem - we were all newbies once.

 

[theREALdotnet]

“Bit-perfect” is an audiophile buzzword, it means nothing, certainly not “better quality”.

 

[DVDdoug]

Makes sense, ahaha total newbie

"Bit perfect" is somewhat "overrated". It's more like "insurance" that nothing is accidently changing digitally, or in that part of the digital path/process. . If you rip a CD to WAV it's nice to know that the WAV is bit identical to the original CD, etc.

Simply changing the volume digitally changes the data. Modern studio production involves a LOT of digital alteration.

But as listeners, the concept of high-fidelity is accurate reproduction of the recording/production so sometimes it's nice to know that the data is not altered or corrupted (beyond what was done during production).

If you are using EQ to compensate for speaker or headphone frequency response variations you are making the sound more accurate. Or if you happen to like a little (or a lot) of bass boost, EQ can be an improvement even if it's not accurate. Or maybe you just don't like what the mixing or mastering engineer did and you want to make it better.

 

[AnalogSteph]

"Bit perfect" is somewhat "overrated". It's more like "insurance" that nothing is accidently changing digitally, or in that part of the digital path/process. . If you rip a CD to WAV it's nice to know that the WAV is bit identical to the original CD, etc.

It's a buzzword that originates from the times when 16-bit output was the norm. You had to be more careful back then. These days OS audio stacks are float32 and DACs will accept 24-bit data at least, so it's all become a lot more flexible.

 

[bloodevil]

No problem - we were all newbies once.

Another newbie question: So what should i select here? Does it make sense to select the higher option?

 

[staticV3]

Another newbie question: So what should i select here? Does it make sense to select the higher option?

Use the highest available bit rate and the sample rate that matches your content. If you want automatic sample rate switching, use an application that supports either Wasapi Exclusive, or ASIO output.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Another newbie question: So what should i select here? Does it make sense to select the higher option?

If the content is 44k, select that. Bit depth the same or greater than the content is fine. If you select a higher or lower sample rate than the content, something somewhere has to do sample rate conversion, and that can be quite messy!

 

[Ken Tajalli]

Another newbie question: So what should i select here? Does it make sense to select the higher option?

On your player, setup the output device as WASAPI.
This ensures, the bits from your player go directly to your sound card, without Windows operating system to interfere.
Also, it makes sure your bitrates and bitdepths are changed automatically.
Now, that's what I call bit-perfect!

 

[AnalogSteph]

You wouldn't want to use WASAPI exclusive mode output when Equalizer APO is supposed to be doing something though, as it bypasses a large part of the audio stack including all APOs.

Selecting the right output format can get into philosophical terrain. Either 24 or 32 bits per sample generally is more than enough, so you might just as well go with 32 and forget about it.

If the majority of your content is 44.1 kHz with a lot of YouTube and whatnot, you could use the SoX resampler DSP (which does its job about as well as it gets) in Foobar and resample to that. Some concern should be given to the filter choice in the E30 then. The "sharp" filter (#1 I think) would be the best compromise overall.

If you are more comfortable with 48 kHz for recording and communications but don't watch much YT, that's another option. This also is the upper limit for a number of DSP APOs, including Equalizer APO.

It would be quite possible to upsample to as high as 352.8 or 384 kHz (it's not a super big load on a modern CPU, certainly not with the SoX resampler DSP) and have a super clean ultrasonic spectrum, but unless the amplifier following is super sensitive to ultrasonics that would have more to do with peace of mind than actual necessity. I have a 10yo Dell laptop where I suspect the DAC digital filter may be a bit crap, that was a good candidate.

Speaking of Foobar, make sure to use ReplayGain (both scanning and in playback). I have reduced levels in YT and Amazon Music to match. That keeps fiddling with the volume control to a minimum. When your collection spans 4 decades of CD material, playback volume normalization is a killer feature.

 

[krabapple]

“Bit-perfect” is an audiophile buzzword, it means nothing, certainly not “better quality”.

mmm, no, in at least one case (if the file is DTS/AC3), bit-perfect output is *required* unless you want to listen to white noise.

(admittedly it's a tossup if you're trying to play the AC3 surround version of Metal Machine Music.)

 

[BeerBear]

I need to select Wasapi-shared as my output, however this doesn't allow me to have bit-perfect playback. Is there a way to sort this out?

Wasapi shared is still bit perfect, unless the audio is getting resampled or is hitting the limiter.
Hitting the limiter is easy to avoid, by simply not playing audio at max volume. Resampling is harder to avoid, but the negative effects of resampling are vastly overblown IMO. Especially with Foobar, where you can select a high quality resampling method.

Unless you can hear the effects of resampling (which I strongly doubt), there's no problem. And the usefulness of a system wide EQ is very valuable.

Another newbie question: So what should i select here? Does it make sense to select the higher option?

Bit depth is easy: choose 24bit or more. Avoid 16bit, unless you have a very specific reason to use it.
Sample rate is more complicated. If you know that your soundcard performs better at some specific rate, use that. But generally speaking, I would avoid extreme values like 300+kHz, because you can run into compatibility issues and whatnot. I don't see the point of going above 88.2/96.

 

[androidbrick]

Yes you can. In Foobar use exclusive mode for output and use MathAudio's Headphone EQ plugin.

 

[antcollinet]

Yes you can. In Foobar use exclusive mode for output and use MathAudio's Headphone EQ plugin.

What do you think the headphone EQ plugin is doing to the bits? Leaving them unchanged? If so, how does it apply EQ?

 

[Sokel]

What do you think the headphone EQ plugin is doing to the bits? Leaving them unchanged? If so, how does it apply EQ?

Agreed,we don't know.
What is good about MathAudio is that is dead easy and works with ASIO and WASAPI exclusive,shuts up when you play DSD and otherwise follows sample rate,etc.

 

[antcollinet]

Agreed,we don't know.
What is good about MathAudio is that is dead easy and works with ASIO and WASAPI exclusive,shuts up when you play DSD and otherwise follows sample rate,etc.

No. We know that if it doesn’t change the bits it is not doing eq. It it does then it is not bit perfect. You cant have both.

 

[Ken Tajalli]

What do you think the headphone EQ plugin is doing to the bits? Leaving them unchanged? If so, how does it apply EQ?

I don't think the reply was to the title collection, but rather a later question as to how to setup the player.
Ofcourse any changes, would cut into "perfect" of bit-perfect .
I think it has already been established that there is no way to be bit-perfect and apply any DSP , what so ever.