Musetec Audio (LKS Audio) MH-DA005 Review (DAC)

[Walter]

That's an interesting point. I am not a follower of this forum so I didn't know that. I will try to get to my bottom line point later. Gotta go now.

Since you seem sincere, some info: Quite a few of the members here are electrical engineers, and a significant subset of those have actually designed audio equipment, including at least one of the ones who replied to you. Certain things are taken as a given for the simple fact that they have been tested repeatedly with the same outcome each time.

 

[muslhead]

So you can't explain it but just "know" it's real?

Let's say that I've never heard of "break-in" before. Regardless of what knowledge I might (not) have of electronics (or science in general), basic logic leads me to ask, "OK, so if the performance improves over a few hours of use, why doesn't the manufacturer do this before shipping the product? Why send out a product that they know is not performing at its best and shows the brand in a bad light? Who would be that stupid?"

ohhh, stop with the common sense thing. Jeeesh, i hate when logic is used

 

[RHO]

I understand. Since the concept is totally rejected here with absolute certainty, I assume, break-in/burn-in is a laughable notion.

I'm not likely to make any progress here. I will say this. The issue is not what you know but what you don't know. It is epistemological. Science progresses by considering data that conflicts or challenges what is currently believed to be true. Dogma is not science.

We (I work at a semiconductor manufacturer) test burn-in on our products on a very regular basis. It's to see if they degrade over time and if so, when and by how much some parameters become out of spec. (we put them in an oven to simulate 10 a year lifespan in normal operating conditions).
I do not know of any device getting actually better over time.
So I would say it has been tested quite rigorously.
Burn-in in the conditions audiophiles use it has no positive effect on the performance of (semiconductors inside) a device if it has any effect at all.

edit: typo

 

[Koeitje]

Since you seem sincere, some info: Quite a few of the members here are electrical engineers, and a significant subset of those have actually designed audio equipment, including at least one of the ones who replied to you. Certain things are taken as a given for the simple fact that they have been tested repeatedly with the same outcome each time.

Its like dropping an apple a billion times and doing it once more "because it might not fall to the ground this time!".

 

[YSC]

sadly it's quite common in the Chinese market, too many competition there and most can earn enough using high spec components with a great looking internals to promote itself. there are some really class leading ones like Holo Audio (I am enjoying the spring 2 a lot for 2 years) and Topping, SMSL, but also quite some cloning the high end feel pouring together high end components and never dare/know how to optimize. too slim a chance for someone to really measure it and even when that happened, few of their target in domestic market reads english or able to browse outseide, plus they can claim it's biased, evil plot from the west... so really, I think the most a lot of these invested into are the look and feel of high end, SINAD wise as long it's better than, say a vinyl record during a blind listening would likely be unnoticed anyway

 

[AudioSceptic]

What data? In order for data to conflict or challenge there must be data.

Hint - someone listening now, then listeing again 6 weeks later and saying it got better - is not data.

Break in, in solid state electronics is not a thing. If you think it is, you have to point to the physical penomena that is actually happening (and can be measured), and explain how the signal is changed/improved by that phenomena.

And don't come back with:



That is just magical thinking. it would not be possible to design all the stuff we do with modern day electronics if we didn't understand how it works.

[pedant]
singular phenomenon
plural phenomena
[/pedant]

 

[Luca_]

@amirm

have you tried with the drivers provided by the manufacturer?
MH-DA005 USB drivers

应用服务

have you also updated the firmware according to the manufacturer's instructions?
MH-DA005 USB firmware update notes

应用服务

if you have not performed the above, I believe the measurements need to be repeated.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Such a shame ... they have invested a lot into components without measurable success.
Maybe they need some AP unit or at least decent soundcard?
View attachment 207326

A lot of bling but little bang.

 

[sns109]

Well, I'm happy owner of 005 for a bit over two years now. I had in house Okto Dac8, LKS 004, Auralic Vega and 005 all within weeks of each other, 005 superior based solely on listening. Okto, Vega and 005 directly compared. I know at least the Okto measures far superior. So, at this point one must assume 005 under test malfunctioning, 005 functioning correctly, or subjective listening and measurements undertaken here have little correlation in perceived sound quality. I"m not here to argue the latter. I'd only suggest procuring another 005 to confirm measurements, otherwise component may be unfairly judged.

Again, I'm not here to argue subjective vs objective. I find it concerning unit measured so poorly while I find sound quality to be fine, assume I'd hear some sins of commission with these measurements. Versus Okto dac8, superior measured unit, I also heard no sins of commission, only sin of omission for Okto, less resolving than 005.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@amirm

have you tried with the drivers provided by the manufacturer?
MH-DA005 USB drivers

应用服务

have you also updated the firmware according to the manufacturer's instructions?
MH-DA005 USB firmware update notes

应用服务

if you have not performed the above, I believe the measurements need to be repeated.

Really. A 3000 USD box not performing SOTA let alone not meeting the majority of the published specs.

And we are now talking that the „sound“ of a trivial USB driver has to save the day.

 

[Luca_]

Really. A 3000 USD box not performing SOTA let alone not meeting the majority of the published specs.

And we are now talking that the „sound“ of a trivial USB driver has to save the day.

firmware update!!!

 

[RHO]

solely on listening.

AKA biased impressions.

 

[57gold]

Biased by listening?

 

[RHO]

firmware update!!!

So they just released the product, when they knew its performance was quite underwhelming? At this price point ... unacceptable.

 

[Lupin]

@amirm

have you tried with the drivers provided by the manufacturer?
MH-DA005 USB drivers

应用服务

have you also updated the firmware according to the manufacturer's instructions?
MH-DA005 USB firmware update notes

应用服务

if you have not performed the above, I believe the measurements need to be repeated.

USB driver and/or firmware is not going to do anything for the high distortion. Same distortion is measured with both USB and AES input, so seems more an implementation issue than interface issue. Same goes for the terrible jitter measurements using both USB and AES interfaces. it also is not going to fix the output saturation.

That update is also not going to fix the horrendous ES IMD hump, which is clearly a sign of laziness during the design phase as they apparently didn't bother to measure en reduce the effect as much as possible. There are other brands that do spend the time and effort to reduce the IMD hump as much as possible and at the same time costs less then 1/4 of this paperweight, no excuse possible.

USB driver and firmware update might solve some connection errors but it it not magically solve all the design and implementation faults which they don't seem to care about as they totally push all the audiophile snake oil as much more important.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Really. A 3000 USD box not performing SOTA let alone not meeting the majority of the published specs.

And we are now talking that the „sound“ of a trivial USB driver has to save the day.

Not much better isn’t it.

At this price point I would expect a firmware update to fix a typo in the UI maybe but not fundamentally „fix“ any difference to published specs.

Or did you see the manufacturer publicly apologizing on their website that due to an unfortunate firmware problem the specs could not be met and the new firmware fixes this. Maybe I am overlooking sth.

 

[RHO]

Biased by listening?

You cannot listen unbiased. Impossible.
Only in blind tests you can verify if your bias is founded or not. If there is no difference you fail the test. If there is a difference you can pass the test or you can get an inverse result (pointing to A while it is B or vise versa).

 

[Luca_]

USB driver and/or firmware is not going to do anything for the high distortion. Same distortion is measured with both USB and AES input, so seems more an implementation issue than interface issue. Same goes for the terrible jitter measurements using both USB and AES interfaces. it also is not going to fix the output saturation.

That update is also not going to fix the horrendous ES IMD hump, which is clearly a sign of laziness during the design phase as they apparently didn't bother to measure en reduce the effect as much as possible. There are other brands that do spend the time and effort to reduce the IMD hump as much as possible and at the same time costs less then 1/4 of this paperweight, no excuse possible.

USB driver and firmware update might solve some connection errors but it it not magically solve all the design and implementation faults which they don't seem to care about as they totally push all the audiophile snake oil as much more important.

well, thanks for the comments, but your claims are all presumed. in fact you always speak in the conditional.
would repeat the tests cost too much time and effort?
why don't you let the recipient of my observation respond?

 

[sns109]

Well, in the case of Okto, my listening impressions correlated with measurements. Was I also biased here?

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Well, in the case of Okto, my listening impressions correlated with measurements. Was I also biased here?

Every human is (unconsciously) biased in sighted, uncontrolled tests.

So unless you are super human - you were too. Sorry for the tough news.