Reality Is Overrated When It Comes to Recordings (Article from music Engineer/Producer)

[Robin L]

Not so sure about that....

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Got an original Chess copy of "Moaning in the Moonlight" back in 1977 for $3. I have no idea why I got rid of it as soon as I did.

I should note that my playlist includes a lot more stuff that sounds better when there's a 15db boost @ 40hz.

 

[watchnerd]

Got an original Chess copy of "Moaning in the Moonlight" back in 1977 for $3. I have no idea why I got rid of it as soon as I did.

I should note that my playlist includes a lot more stuff that sounds better when there's a 15db boost @ 40hz.

That's what the "loudness" button is for!

 

[MattHooper]

Not so sure about that....

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There's certainly an obvious theme to your music taste

(And it seems like very good taste!)

My discogs record collection would be almost embarrassing in comparison, all full of "WTF is that?" stuff.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I think that the sense of being transported into an acoustic space is perhaps not as attractive to most audiophiles as having the feeling of musicians playing in one's room.
There is a lack of immediacy in "realistic-sounding" recordings which is less exciting in the way it presents the music.

Wider-dispersion speakers and/or more reflective listening rooms will make matters worse in my experience.

I wonder how audiophiles who never listened to an unamplified concert would react if they were to find out that live classical does not have the same level of presence and detail as close-mic'ed recordings.

I've also made recordings where each of 5 musicians were close miked. Then played that back by positioning each speaker where a musician was. So each musician had a real source in real space. No phantom images of sources. It was very successful in a they are here sound. And the musicians liked it too. Even without processing. Not very practical however.

 

[tuga]

I've also made recordings where each of 5 musicians were close miked. Then played that back by positioning each speaker where a musician was. So each musician had a real source in real space. No phantom images of sources. It was very successful in a they are here sound. And the musicians liked it too. Even without processing. Not very practical however.

That is how Acoustic Research made their Live vs. Reproduced demos:

 

[MattHooper]

I've also made recordings where each of 5 musicians were close miked. Then played that back by positioning each speaker where a musician was. So each musician had a real source in real space. No phantom images of sources. It was very successful in a they are here sound. And the musicians liked it too. Even without processing. Not very practical however.

That reminds me of a processing selection I have liked on my AV receiver. It's called, I think, "5 channel stereo" or something like that (been a while since I used it). It takes a stereo music signal and spreads it across the L/C/R home theater speakers (and some in to the surrounds, though it's a front-heavy sound). It creates a stereo effect just like listening to 2 channel, but really seamless wall of sound spread across the L/C/R speakers, and the fact there's a real speaker playing some of the sound in the middle seems to give a solidity and body to the sound that
is hard to get from just phantom images between regular 2 channel speakers.

 

[egellings]

Reality is for people who can't take science fiction.

 

[egellings]

I have placed a center speaker in my stereo setup and fed L+R to it to fill in the hole-in-the-middle effect. It worked quite well. Trick was getting the volume setting right on the center so it would seem to disappear while still adding its benefit.

 

[watchnerd]

I have placed a center speaker in my stereo setup and fed L+R to it to fill in the hole-in-the-middle effect. It worked quite well. Trick was getting the volume setting right on the center so it would seem to disappear while still adding its benefit.

One of the Klipsch speakers was originally designed to be a center fill speaker for a pair of Klipschorns.

I think it might have been the La Scala?

I should try your suggestion some time, as my amp has a set of 'B Speakers' outputs that I never use.

What did you use to sum the L+R channels?

 

[mhardy6647]

One of the Klipsch speakers was originally designed to be a center fill speaker for a pair of Klipschorns.

I think it might have been the La Scala?

I should try your suggestion some time, as my amp has a set of 'B Speakers' outputs that I never use.

What did you use to sum the L+R channels?

The Cornwall was specifically touted for that purpose, with flanking Klipschorns.




An early 1970s Klipsch brochure, although the room decor suggests its origins were in the 'sixties.

 

[formula 977]

Got an original Chess copy of "Moaning in the Moonlight" back in 1977 for $3. I have no idea why I got rid of it as soon as I did.

I should note that my playlist includes a lot more stuff that sounds better when there's a 15db boost @ 40hz.

I'm with you. I go with 10db at 30hz. If there was nothing there in the first place what could it hurt. Right?

 

[watchnerd]

The Cornwall was specifically touted for that purpose, with flanking Klipschorns.




An early 1970s Klipsch brochure, although the room decor suggests its origins were in the 'sixties.

You're right, thanks.

I got my Klipsches mixed up.

 

[tuga]

The Cornwall was specifically touted for that purpose, with flanking Klipschorns.




An early 1970s Klipsch brochure, although the room decor suggests its origins were in the 'sixties.

It also suggests that whoever produced that photo had no clue of what he was doing, putting a speaker in front of the double door…

 

[mhardy6647]

It also suggests that whoever produced that photo had no clue of what he was doing, putting a speaker in front of the double door…

That was long my assessment of that photo -- but I think that "door" is in fact not a door at all but rather an architectural element. I think we're in the realm of southern (US) design, which has a different aesthetic than that to which, e.g., yankees are accustomed.

You're right, thanks.

I got my Klipsches mixed up.

Unfortunately they all sounded pretty much the same.

 

[tuga]

That was long my assessment of that photo -- but I think that "door" is in fact not a door at all but rather an architectural element. I think we're in the realm of southern (US) design, which has a different aesthetic than that to which, e.g., yankees are accustomed.

Could be, if it weren't for the door handles.

 

[mhardy6647]

Could be, if it weren't for the door handles.

Hmm -- I always interpreted all that stuff atop the Corny as tchotchke -- could be recessed door pulls, though.
If that be the case, I think Klipsch must have shared ad designers with these folks...

 

[Blumlein 88]

Could be, if it weren't for the door handles.

Could be an equipment cabinet. Amp, preamp, tuner, TT etc could all be behind those doors. They also might be sliding doors.

 

[tuga]

Could be an equipment cabinet. Amp, preamp, tuner, TT etc could all be behind those doors. They also might be sliding doors.

They look like sliding doors. To another room.

 

[Blumlein 88]

They look like sliding doors. To another room.

How would you know? I know someone who lived in an early 1970's house and had it just this way. His double sliding doors were not quite this wide, but you slid it open to reveal shelves for the stereo gear, and some drawers for storing various accessories. He didn't have a center speaker, but he could have put one there.

 

[Jim Shaw]

Enjoyed this PTA piece very much. I especially embrace his analogy to images by Ansel Adams vs. Andy Warhol. (I own both.)

Being a degreed electrical engineer, a musician, and having spent years around recording studios, I find nothing to disagree with in this. It is nothing short of enlightened. And, it is well written.

I mostly listen to symphonic, chamber, and jazz music. In these genres, producers are likely to stick to the facts on a recording. Yet still, there are a hundred variables that are to be managed. They include studio acoustical environment, close vs. overall miking, talent virtuosity, and on and on. If I listen to a multi-dozen miked recording vs. a single Decca Tree, for example, each can sound good -- but they sound completely different. Just recording solo piano presents lots of options. (The piano, like a struck string instrument, must 'play the room' as a necessary acoustic. Even a Steinway can sound like a $500 electronic instrument without the 'room'.

To the isolated audiophile, "natural" sound is a goal. Yet, in practice, it isn't. Not even in classical music. In pop music, few want to hear the Rolling Stones as they sounded to a fly on the wall in the studio. And they probably wouldn't buy their albums. Older von Karajan/Berlin classical albums sound like they were recorded in a hollow acoustic. Just as in feeding your face, the flavor is largely in the seasoning. And the sauces.

-Just one man's view.