Welcome New Members to ASR, introduce yourself here.

[Freddy]

Hi, in the process of relocating back after a long stint overseas. I am mainly interested in classical music and have a large collection of records, and a lot of opera. I asked for advice on purchasing a Dac and so far have found most of the replies, (not all), to be rude and dismissive. It is almost as if one is not allowed to purchase equipment that sounds good to one. I doubt this is the site for me.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Hi, in the process of relocating back after a long stint overseas. I am mainly interested in classical music and have a large collection of records, and a lot of opera.

Never liked opera myself, hard to understand the plot. It's a bit like some kind of heavy metal. Who knows what they are singing about?

I asked for advice on purchasing a Dac and so far have found most of the replies, (not all), to be rude and dismissive.

Yeah, that's how it goes, around here. Newbie comes along, uses his hearing as a reference, and get's a shock seeing that there is a completely different school of thought, where the reference is not yourself.

Younger people too, many of them engineers, they don't have time to waste and come straight to the point. they have trained their arguments on hundreds of newbies before you. I can see how this comes across as hostile, but it's not against your person. Just one belief of yours.

It is almost as if one is not allowed to purchase equipment that sounds good to one. I doubt this is the site for me.

You got that wrong, 100%. Stick around for a few weeks, lurk and read. I'm sure you see the value in this forum eventually.

Welcome and remember that this is all just a hobby, the differences amongst us don't diminish the enjoyment of music at all

 

[Freddy]

@TheBatsEar
"Never liked opera myself, hard to understand the plot. It's a bit like some kind of heavy metal" Great post. I love this. May I steal it? It is part of my job, so I need to like opera.
Here is what I do not understand. As I said, it seems no one has heard the Emm or the Playback designs, so how on earth can they suggest an $#@ sounds at least as good or better? This is illogical and like saying a 2019 Chateau Margaux is better than a 2019 Lafitte without having tasted them.
Wo in Deutschland bist du? Habe mehrere Jahre in Berlin gelebt.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Here is what I do not understand. As I said, it seems no one has heard the Emm or the Playback designs, so how on earth can they suggest an $#@ sounds at least as good or better?

It's an assumption based on experience i would say. And i think it's a fair assumption too.
We have seen, through measurements, time and time again, that there is no dependable relationship between price and performance in amps, DACs, phono preamps and so on. Worse, we have DACs that are perfect, better than our ability to differentiate and even better than the medium. These can be had for 150€.

Also, we don't have measurements for those devices you mention. It's likely they are bad, otherwise the manufacturer would submit them to someone for independent measurement. The claim to be the best is just a claim, you have to have proof. You can help by sending your stuff to @amirm if feasible, he can measure it, then we know for sure

This is illogical and like saying a 2019 Chateau Margaux is better than a 2019 Lafitte without having tasted them.

The problem here is that "better" is judged by tasting it. That might work for wine, or oil paintings or music. Logic can not be applied to music, a track can not be logically superior, nor can a wine. Taste is no metric that is repeatable.

But DACs, amps and so on are supposed to be engineered to be neutral, without sound, not adding distortion or tonality. Once they do that, they become interchangeable and you can buy using price, optics or features. We believe we have, in most device classes, reached that level of perfection.

You can not apply taste to an engineering problem.

Well, there are plenty of threads that discuss exactly that. It's at the core of this forum, the fight between subjectivism (judge a DAC by ear and music by taste) and objectivism (judge a DAC by measurement and music by taste).

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Hi, in the process of relocating back after a long stint overseas. I am mainly interested in classical music and have a large collection of records, and a lot of opera. I asked for advice on purchasing a Dac and so far have found most of the replies, (not all), to be rude and dismissive. It is almost as if one is not allowed to purchase equipment that sounds good to one. I doubt this is the site for me.

Sorry about how you’ve been treated on this site and it’s the same many others, you need a thick skin when posting anything not following the overall site bias. If you claim to hear a difference between any piece of kit it’s showtime. If you mention cables make a difference the abuse will come down from on high. When you mention DACs and say they don’t sound the same ‘blasphemy.’ Yet so many of the people who claim there is no difference buy a Topping DAC for around $1000 when a much cheaper IFI DAC measures as well if not better at a lower cost + it doesn’t look as if it was made in someone’s shed. The first world in this sites name is Audio they seem to forget that. Audiophiles are sinners and must repent their sins or face the wrath of the mob.
Best Wishes,
Ron

 

[nikosidis]

Hi ASR!
I love music and played guitar in many bands and still do.
Home audio been a hobby of mine for a long time. I really like to listen to music from a nice system.
Since I'm not that technical I have tried a lot of equipment and learned the hard way.
Thanks to Amir and others I'm no longer in doubt about what matters.
All the snakeoil is bullshit and what matters is how things measure and the base for a great audio system.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Audiophiles are sinners and must repent their sins or face the wrath of the mob.

Not gonna lie, that sounds a bit bitter. We are not different tribes, you know. We share the joy we find in music.

I love music and played guitar in many bands and still do.
Home audio been a hobby of mine for a long time. I really like to listen to music from a nice system.

Welcome, my dude

All the snakeoil is bullshit and what matters is how things measure and the base for a great audio system.

That sums up the overall opinion of this site.

 

[JayGilb]

Hi, in the process of relocating back after a long stint overseas. I am mainly interested in classical music and have a large collection of records, and a lot of opera. I asked for advice on purchasing a Dac and so far have found most of the replies, (not all), to be rude and dismissive. It is almost as if one is not allowed to purchase equipment that sounds good to one. I doubt this is the site for me.

Ignore the assholes, it's the internet and ASR is not immune from them. Expect a thread to diverge into bullshit after 2 pages and do your best to find the wheat in all of the chaff. It takes a while, but you will soon find certain members who usually offer sage advice, but can still be an asshole.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

Not gonna lie, that sounds a bit bitter. We are not different tribes, you know. We share the joy we find in music.


Welcome, my dude


That sums up the overall opinion of this site.
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Think some of you could have been more gentle with Freddie, from what I read he’s fairly new to the cut and thrust of Internet forums. If you want bitter try reading the replies to his post. It is a hobby not life and death you can offer advice without biting chunks out of them. Freddie has now said as much himself and is leaving ASR, shame because ASR has a lot to offer but it’s not infallible. Having a different take isn’t a threat to someones Manhood although with many it seems that way!

 

[TheBatsEar]

If you want bitter try reading the replies to his post. It is a hobby not life and death you can offer advice without biting chunks out of them.

True, but like i said, many of the guys are young and some are engineers. They don't have time for nonsense. Their arguments are sharpened by hundreds similar threads.

Freddie has now said as much himself and is leaving ASR, shame because ASR has a lot to offer but it’s not infallible. Having a different take isn’t a threat to someones Manhood although with many it seems that way!

It's a choice to take personal offense, when none was intended.
Besides, Freddie posted last a few hours ago, i have no reason to believe he will not lurk around for some times and then come back, either hardened against our arguments, or reformed into an objectivist.

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

True, but like i said, many of the guys are young and some are engineers. They don't have time for nonsense. Their arguments are sharpened by hundreds similar threads.


It's a choice to take personal offense, when none was intended.
Besides, Freddie posted last a few hours ago, i have no reason to believe he will not lurk around for some times and then come back, either hardened against our arguments, or reformed into an objectivist.

Hope you’re right about him not giving up on ASR. Let’s hope he doesn’t take the pledge of allegiance it’s a step too far, we subjectivists both of us need to keep the flag of truth and hearing justice flying. ‍‍‍
God save our ears!

 

[GD Fan]

True, but like i said, many of the guys are young and some are engineers. They don't have time for nonsense. Their arguments are sharpened by hundreds similar threads.


It's a choice to take personal offense, when none was intended.
Besides, Freddie posted last a few hours ago, i have no reason to believe he will not lurk around for some times and then come back, either hardened against our arguments, or reformed into an objectivist.

This is definitely a site where a lengthy lurking period can be very helpful. Or, in the case of a blockhead like me, it may only slightly diminish the initial ego damage!

 

[JSmith]

Sorry about how you’ve been treated on this site

I'm going to have to object to this post... Freddy was treated fine, myself and a number of other members attempted to provide information and inform him/her that members here are not going to give listening recommendations to choose a DAC.

Freddy chose not to listen to anyone, then started blaming others and taking simple advice as a personal attack. There is a large memo at the top of this forum that says;

Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously

I think maybe "Freddy" failed to see or grasp this.

To be quite frank, the whole event came across as another troll account, especially when the poster moved the discussion here to the welcome thread. The link posted to this thread was an invitation to introduce themselves, not troll a welcome thread with further $20K DAC subjective discussion.


JSmith

 

[Suffolkhifinut]

I'm going to have to object to this post... Freddy was treated fine, myself and a number of other members attempted to provide information and inform him/her that members here are not going to give listening recommendations to choose a DAC.

Freddy chose not to listen to anyone, then started blaming others and taking simple advice as a personal attack. There is a large memo at the top of this forum that says;

Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously

I think maybe "Freddy" failed to see or grasp this.

To be quite frank, the whole event came across as another troll account, especially when the poster moved the discussion here to the welcome thread. The link posted to this thread was an invitation to introduce themselves, not troll a welcome thread with further $20K DAC subjective discussion.


JSmith

Think you should heed the advice you quote in bold!

 

[Odorb]

Hi

I'm from Australia and have been lurking for a little while so I thought I'd post an intro and participate a bit more. I'm looking for knowledge to optimise a multi-purpose space as I love music, movies and TV. I love the scientific/measurements approach here and like the look of the Kef and Revel kit.

I thought I was intermediate as far as hifi knowledge went but, looking at the active equipment and processing/amplification reviews I realise I am just a noob. Using genelec in the home has piqued my interest in particular. So much to learn and looking forward to it.

Cheers

 

[JSmith]

I'm from Australia

... welcome.


JSmith

 

[TheBatsEar]

I thought I was intermediate as far as hifi knowledge went but, looking at the active equipment and processing/amplification reviews I realise I am just a noob. Using genelec in the home has piqued my interest in particular. So much to learn and looking forward to it.

Had a similar moment when i learned about DSP and what it can do in the home.

Only bad thing about this place is, if you buy into it, the whole attempt at rationality, and apply it to this hobby, other forums are hard to stick around.

 

[VXAce]

Hi, I'm VXAce, found this all through Amir's video on the Rokit 5 G4's.

Rather like measurements but until now I hadn't found somewhere that actually explains it in an understandable way.

 

[TheBatsEar]

Hi, I'm VXAce, found this all through Amir's video on the Rokit 5 G4's.

Welcome

Rather like measurements but until now I hadn't found somewhere that actually explains it in an understandable way.

No shame in asking, plenty of folk around that like to help.

 

[VXAce]

No shame in asking, plenty of folk around that like to help.

I'll need to do a lot more reading/watching before I can even formulate a relevant question!