Jose Hidalgo
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Hi, please bear with me if you're willing to help. Thank you.
As some of you know, my GF and I have recently bought 2 Topping E30 USB DACs + 2 Topping L30 headphone amps (apologies if I repeat myself, this is for the people who don't know yet). All that equipment is meant to power our small collection of headphones (Nighthawk Carbon, HD600, Sundara, MDR-CD1000, plus some minor stuff). We often listen to music together, i.e. same song playing on two different headphones at the same time.
So far all the hardware works perfectly, with our Windows 8.1 laptop as source...
... except for a little software detail : we can't yet EQ our headphones individually when listening to them together, like planned in this nice diagram.
We can EQ them individually and listen to one of them at a time (works great), but we can't EQ them individually when listening to them together.
That is only due to an unexpected software bug : ASIO4ALL doesn't seem to detect USB Topping DACs, at least in our Windows 8.1 laptop.
We have tried everything : unplugging/replugging the DACs, rebooting the PC, uninstalling/reinstalling (both ASIO4ALL and Topping ASIO driver)... It doesn't work. ASIO4ALL only detects our motherboard audio, not our DACs.
Now that we're facing that unexpected software bug, we still have different scenarios and time to choose the best one :
1. Get a new, corrected, ASIO4ALL version
3. Upgrade to Windows 10
4. Have Topping add a "DAC aggregation option" to their drivers
5. Sell the 2 Topping E30 DACs and replace them with a single multichannel DAC
Bottom line : could any of you please help with any of these 5 points ? Thanks in advance !
As some of you know, my GF and I have recently bought 2 Topping E30 USB DACs + 2 Topping L30 headphone amps (apologies if I repeat myself, this is for the people who don't know yet). All that equipment is meant to power our small collection of headphones (Nighthawk Carbon, HD600, Sundara, MDR-CD1000, plus some minor stuff). We often listen to music together, i.e. same song playing on two different headphones at the same time.
So far all the hardware works perfectly, with our Windows 8.1 laptop as source...
... except for a little software detail : we can't yet EQ our headphones individually when listening to them together, like planned in this nice diagram.
We can EQ them individually and listen to one of them at a time (works great), but we can't EQ them individually when listening to them together.
That is only due to an unexpected software bug : ASIO4ALL doesn't seem to detect USB Topping DACs, at least in our Windows 8.1 laptop.
We have tried everything : unplugging/replugging the DACs, rebooting the PC, uninstalling/reinstalling (both ASIO4ALL and Topping ASIO driver)... It doesn't work. ASIO4ALL only detects our motherboard audio, not our DACs.
Now that we're facing that unexpected software bug, we still have different scenarios and time to choose the best one :
1. Get a new, corrected, ASIO4ALL version
I've filed a bug report by email, aimed at ASIO4ALL developer, Michael Tippach, but he hasn't replied yet.
We don't know if he will reply or not. We don't even know if he's still active, since the latest ASIO4ALL release is from 2017.
BTW, to those who think ASIO4ALL won't work for whatever reason, let me tell you this : IT WORKS. Other people have already tried this same setup successfully with other DACs (and that includes dealing with clock sync issues, so let's not talk about it here). The only problem we're facing here is the non-detection of our Topping DACs. Once ASIO4ALL can detect them, everything will be instantly solved.
2. Find an ASIO4ALL alternative
If we don't get a reply from ASIO4ALL's developer, we'd need an alternative software that would be able to detect our Topping DACs, while performing the same function (receive 4 channels, send 2+2 channels).
Possible alternatives include :
- Free software : JACK Audio, Voicemeeter Banana, Equalizer APO...
- Commercial software : Ploytec USB Audio driver, Virtual Audio Cable, Virtual Audio Stream, JRiver...
But I don't know if any of them can perform the required function. At least ASIO4ALL is known to work and be relatively stable.
Maybe some of you are familiar with some of these software and could tell us about it.
3. Upgrade to Windows 10
The ASIO4ALL issue may be due to the fact that our laptop is under Windows 8.1. It's a possibility, but it hasn't been proven yet.
Some people on ASR (e.g. @Veri ) have suggested that we upgrade to Windows 10. I guess it makes sense : latest version, latest drivers, etc..
It could work, but nobody knows yet if it would work. So before buying an expensive software upgrade and performing it (which would take hours, not to mention saving all data just in case), we'd need at least to be pretty sure that ASIO4ALL will detect our DACs under Windows 10.
For that purpose, since we don't have any Windows 10 PC, we'd need at least one of you to be kind enough to perform this test :
- Install ASIO4ALL on a Windows 10 PC, checking the "offline settings" option during install (it won't hurt your PC, that's guaranteed),
- Launch the ASIO4ALL offline settings,
- Check if it detects your Topping DAC (try plugging/unplugging it from an USB port - the test must be performed with USB, not SPDIF),
- Uninstall it.
We have already asked twice in the E30/L30 threads, but so far nobody has answered our call. Maybe third time's the charm ?
Come on guys, it's only a couple minutes and we desperately need that answer...
4. Have Topping add a "DAC aggregation option" to their drivers
I've already made a formal request to Topping's Tech Service, hoping for the best. Other DAC manufacturers such as Mytek have provided such feature in the past. ASR member @Kal Rubinson has already tried aggregated Mytek DACs with Roon (see here ).
On the tech side, ASIO 2.3 added CanTimeInfo and CanTimeCode queries to the driver and also allowed for internal buffering, so it'd be possible to write an aggregate wrapper. This would only require a little work from Topping : basically implementing timecode info in their drivers.
Maybe people like @JohnYang1997 could support this idea, but I don't know if he will read this message, so it's a shot in the dark.
5. Sell the 2 Topping E30 DACs and replace them with a single multichannel DAC
This may be a more radical solution, but why not, only if nothing else works.
The multichannel DAC would need to be at least as transparent to the ear as the E30, which limits possible choices.
Okto Research dac8 Pro comes to mind, but not only does it cost 989 € : it's also overkill for our use (8 channels when we only need 4, XLR outputs...).
Are there any cheaper (and yet good enough) DAC alternatives with 4 channels or more ?
I'd like to avoid the usual "home studio audio interfaces" that aren't intended for hi-fi use : they provide lots of useless functions, and their measurements aren't generally nearly as good as the E30's.
Bottom line : could any of you please help with any of these 5 points ? Thanks in advance !
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