Interesting. I have identified sounds/situations which aggravate my tinnitus and need to avoid, but no issues with my SR225e. Knock on wood.
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Why the hate for Grado?
- Thread starter NiagaraPete
- Start date
Peterinvan
Senior Member
I damaged my ears about 10 years ago playing with some DIY tweeters that I forgot to attenuate.
I live with low level tinnitus at around 7 Khz. Luckily, I can ignore it when listening to speakers or headphones/earphones.
The only phones that exacerbated my tinnitus was a pair of Senn HD800. I returned them and the tinnitus returned to my normal level after a couple of weeks.
I modified my Grado SR325is by punching two holes in the backing felt. This warmed them up a bit and I got more bass.
I listen to these more than any other pair that I own. No impact on my tinnitus.
Hi everyone, I have lurked accountless for a while but want to give back a little. I've been making some flat-plate coupler (FPC) measurements with a small selection of different pads which I wanted to share with you all. I'm using the SR80i for the experiments, with a Sennheiser HD6XX as reference. The usual disclaimers about FPC apply: I find the plot of my HD6XX to match what I hear up until about 5-6kHz, and from then on the amplitude is broadly correct but any peaks, dips, or nulls I hear aren't reflected at all.
Here is the SR80i with stock S cushion against HD6XX as baseline:
Second, 'velvet' pads from aliexpress:
Large excess between 2-3kHz is completely eliminated, but there are now enormous peaks in the treble, an odd little one between 1-2kHz, and increased much increased bass.
Adding a ring of 3ply tissue before the driver (the sort you blow your nose with):
This calms the 10kHz+ region to more palatable levels but the 5-7kHz region is still horrible to listen to. Attempts to EQ it out with a -10dB peaking filter of Q=2 at 6kHz lends a muffled quality to the treble. I will put this down to my FPC not reflecting the true interactions with the ear at those frequencies, thereby making EQ very difficult. My hypothesis is the treble is not quite as bad as it looks on a FPC by the time it passes the concha and ear canal, but there is obviously something amiss there nonetheless.
Thirdly the 'velvet protein skin' version from the above aliexpress seller:
I listened to these before measuring (for about 3 seconds). They sound as bad as the graph looks. Proof Grados can do sub-bass perhaps? No point even trying to modify these.
Next, third party G cushions also from aliexpress:
Nothing surprising here, although not official G cushions this reflects what others have shown, such as Tyll in his SR225i pad experiments from back in the day: 2-3kHz excess is somewhat reduced or at least narrowed, but in exchange for much increased treble above 4kHz.
Adding some 3ply tissue as before:
This is a bit more like what I want to see. At this point they sound more neutral and you'd be forgiven for not noticing how excessive the treble still is if you didn't first refer to something like the HD6XX, though it is pretty obvious with tracks you are familiar with.
I wanted to try these pads partly to see if some change in 'soundstage' could be induced; especially those velvet pads which bring the drivers 45mm from your ear. Trying out some studio recorded rock, metal, even jazz produced no discernible change to me, however. With the velvet pads there was some sense that the sound was originating from further sideways but if anything this made the sense of space worse because it created the artificial sense that the music was panned even harder left and right than it really was.
With the G cushions things were generally more positive. They are quite deep, about 35mm, but because they are so wide and flat the drivers sit much closer to your ears. The way the treble is quite uniformly increased compared to the velvet pads is much less unpleasant. At first it appears like detail and I enjoyed the unique sound but it becomes fatiguing extremely quickly, even with tissue to dampen. Again, soundstage differences weren't perceived besides a few very specific scenarios: solo piano e.g. Chopin recordings, some Django Reinhardt tracks, and hard-panned studio recordings such as early Beatles. The Django Reinhardt in particular I really dislike listening to on headphones but the Grados with G cushions brightened it up and brought it out my head to a point where it was not so bad. Similar effect with piano and hard-panned recordings but to a lesser extent, although I still can't listen to things like Beatles without a little cross-feed which I was still using here.
Bringing down the treble with EQ, as I mentioned before, pretty much ruined the effect, however. This makes me think this added sparkle and airiness you get is really what brings the sound out the center of your head with the G cushions.
Overall I enjoyed playing around with these affordable pads and would recommend anyone else with Grados perform similar explorations. I'm not sure I would go out and buy a pair of Grados just to do so, or if you really want to, get the cheapest pair you can. To partially address the initial question this thread posed: I personally am glad Grados exist as the SR80i was the first headphone I bought seeking better audio quality. I moved onto the HD6XX a few years later, which is better in almost every way, but I'm not sure I would have done so without first being exposed to the Grados. The potential for changing the sound just by swapping pads is probably unmatched as well. I feel some Grado models qualify as Veblen goods, which I don't personally agree with, but is more palatable when they produce models all the way down to what many would classify as 'cheap'.
N.B. I also have a set of the original SR60 heaphone (flat cup before the mushroom-cup 'i' version) which I was going to post measurements of but it has the most ridiculous 5kHz peak. It's a shame as everywhere else it's better than the later SR80i: lower in the 2-3kHz range and better extended treble above 10kHz. Can anyone confirm this is a typical feature of the early Grado models, or just my copy (I got it second hand only recently).
Here is the SR80i with stock S cushion against HD6XX as baseline:
Second, 'velvet' pads from aliexpress:
Large excess between 2-3kHz is completely eliminated, but there are now enormous peaks in the treble, an odd little one between 1-2kHz, and increased much increased bass.
Adding a ring of 3ply tissue before the driver (the sort you blow your nose with):
This calms the 10kHz+ region to more palatable levels but the 5-7kHz region is still horrible to listen to. Attempts to EQ it out with a -10dB peaking filter of Q=2 at 6kHz lends a muffled quality to the treble. I will put this down to my FPC not reflecting the true interactions with the ear at those frequencies, thereby making EQ very difficult. My hypothesis is the treble is not quite as bad as it looks on a FPC by the time it passes the concha and ear canal, but there is obviously something amiss there nonetheless.
Thirdly the 'velvet protein skin' version from the above aliexpress seller:
I listened to these before measuring (for about 3 seconds). They sound as bad as the graph looks. Proof Grados can do sub-bass perhaps? No point even trying to modify these.
Next, third party G cushions also from aliexpress:
Nothing surprising here, although not official G cushions this reflects what others have shown, such as Tyll in his SR225i pad experiments from back in the day: 2-3kHz excess is somewhat reduced or at least narrowed, but in exchange for much increased treble above 4kHz.
Adding some 3ply tissue as before:
This is a bit more like what I want to see. At this point they sound more neutral and you'd be forgiven for not noticing how excessive the treble still is if you didn't first refer to something like the HD6XX, though it is pretty obvious with tracks you are familiar with.
I wanted to try these pads partly to see if some change in 'soundstage' could be induced; especially those velvet pads which bring the drivers 45mm from your ear. Trying out some studio recorded rock, metal, even jazz produced no discernible change to me, however. With the velvet pads there was some sense that the sound was originating from further sideways but if anything this made the sense of space worse because it created the artificial sense that the music was panned even harder left and right than it really was.
With the G cushions things were generally more positive. They are quite deep, about 35mm, but because they are so wide and flat the drivers sit much closer to your ears. The way the treble is quite uniformly increased compared to the velvet pads is much less unpleasant. At first it appears like detail and I enjoyed the unique sound but it becomes fatiguing extremely quickly, even with tissue to dampen. Again, soundstage differences weren't perceived besides a few very specific scenarios: solo piano e.g. Chopin recordings, some Django Reinhardt tracks, and hard-panned studio recordings such as early Beatles. The Django Reinhardt in particular I really dislike listening to on headphones but the Grados with G cushions brightened it up and brought it out my head to a point where it was not so bad. Similar effect with piano and hard-panned recordings but to a lesser extent, although I still can't listen to things like Beatles without a little cross-feed which I was still using here.
Bringing down the treble with EQ, as I mentioned before, pretty much ruined the effect, however. This makes me think this added sparkle and airiness you get is really what brings the sound out the center of your head with the G cushions.
Overall I enjoyed playing around with these affordable pads and would recommend anyone else with Grados perform similar explorations. I'm not sure I would go out and buy a pair of Grados just to do so, or if you really want to, get the cheapest pair you can. To partially address the initial question this thread posed: I personally am glad Grados exist as the SR80i was the first headphone I bought seeking better audio quality. I moved onto the HD6XX a few years later, which is better in almost every way, but I'm not sure I would have done so without first being exposed to the Grados. The potential for changing the sound just by swapping pads is probably unmatched as well. I feel some Grado models qualify as Veblen goods, which I don't personally agree with, but is more palatable when they produce models all the way down to what many would classify as 'cheap'.
N.B. I also have a set of the original SR60 heaphone (flat cup before the mushroom-cup 'i' version) which I was going to post measurements of but it has the most ridiculous 5kHz peak. It's a shame as everywhere else it's better than the later SR80i: lower in the 2-3kHz range and better extended treble above 10kHz. Can anyone confirm this is a typical feature of the early Grado models, or just my copy (I got it second hand only recently).
Victor Martell
Active Member
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As a member of ASR I have the full understanding that the following comment is probably related to my own hearing, specially my probably own personal kind of hearing loss - all of us are different, might perceive the cans differently.
Thanks said, got curious. My sr80x were boxed and stored away. Did not like them: too harsh, piercing mids and highs, no bass. Some success with chamber music, but decided to put it away. Again, got curious and decide to try again. As you know, madness is trying the same thing expecting different results, so decided to try something new. Changed the pads! Went from the stock S pads, which cover the driver and give you some distance to it, to the F pads, which do not cover the driver, are thinner, so they get your ear closer to the driver and they are slightly more rigid than the extremely soft S pad.
That did the trick for me. Of course I still hear the Grado sound, sharp mids and highs, but the new pads also let enough bass thru that it addressed my complaints. Basically, bass guitars are now back for sounding like, well, bass guitars!
The S pads made them sound like just guitars! . All in all, now, with the F Pads, I like the sr80x. The added bass also makes it sound more balanced.
Again, all it could mean is that the new pads jive better with my own kind of hearing loss - maybe the original pads jive better with Mr. Grado's OWN hearing loss! Well, fortunately they offer the other option. YMMV, and sound is subjective, of course. But at least, for ME, I feel like I recovered $125 that I was resigned to having lost, having hated the stock sr80x.
thnx!
v
Thanks said, got curious. My sr80x were boxed and stored away. Did not like them: too harsh, piercing mids and highs, no bass. Some success with chamber music, but decided to put it away. Again, got curious and decide to try again. As you know, madness is trying the same thing expecting different results, so decided to try something new. Changed the pads! Went from the stock S pads, which cover the driver and give you some distance to it, to the F pads, which do not cover the driver, are thinner, so they get your ear closer to the driver and they are slightly more rigid than the extremely soft S pad.
That did the trick for me. Of course I still hear the Grado sound, sharp mids and highs, but the new pads also let enough bass thru that it addressed my complaints. Basically, bass guitars are now back for sounding like, well, bass guitars!
The S pads made them sound like just guitars! . All in all, now, with the F Pads, I like the sr80x. The added bass also makes it sound more balanced.Again, all it could mean is that the new pads jive better with my own kind of hearing loss - maybe the original pads jive better with Mr. Grado's OWN hearing loss!
Well, fortunately they offer the other option. YMMV, and sound is subjective, of course. But at least, for ME, I feel like I recovered $125 that I was resigned to having lost, having hated the stock sr80x.thnx!
v
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I have never heard any of the Grado headphones.
I am put off because they look like something that was knocked together in the garden hut by a hobbyist.
They may well be superb, but I cannot get over this.
I use Senn HD800s and Sony MDR Z1R as well as some TOTL in ear.
I am put off because they look like something that was knocked together in the garden hut by a hobbyist.
They may well be superb, but I cannot get over this.
I use Senn HD800s and Sony MDR Z1R as well as some TOTL in ear.
CausualListener
Member
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because they are ear-piercingly bright to some people. Grado drivers are fairly close to the ear canal so everyone's different ear gain properties might work very differently.
D
Deleted member 21726
Guest
I have had my first Grados, Hemps about a month now. Best headphone for enjoying music of those which i have owned.
There's nothing that draws attention away from music, you can just sit down and relax and enjoy of music.
That is what good headphone should do. Nothing else.
There's nothing that draws attention away from music, you can just sit down and relax and enjoy of music.
That is what good headphone should do. Nothing else.
I find it extremely perplexing describe a Grado as relaxing. I have owned several Grado headphones, in my early years, and not a chance any could ever be described as relaxing. It takes experiencing enough other design approaches to reveal what a relaxing signature is, and of course, even then there will never be a universal definition of what relaxing signatures are like. For me, without a doubt, Grado designs that I have heard are not even remotely close to relaxing.
D
Deleted member 21726
Guest
Have you heard Hemps?
And it's all about personal preferences. Also we all have different ears and taste.
No, and I will. I heard a recent issue, had it on hand for a while. The model that they made from some special tree on their property, some story like that. Anyway, it was better, but Grado loves thin bass and forward midrange. Not the best combination in my opinion, but yes as you said, we all have different preferences.Have you heard Hemps?
And it's all about personal preferences. Also we all have different ears and taste.
Cote Dazur
Addicted to Fun and Learning
I read a few comments in this thread and I do not understand why EQ is not recommended to make those Grado headphones more enjoyable, as beside comfort, FR seems to be the issue.
In any other headphone thread, EQ seems to be the main subject, even on head phone with almost perfect FR in a natural state.
In any other headphone thread, EQ seems to be the main subject, even on head phone with almost perfect FR in a natural state.
D
Deleted member 21726
Guest
Dunno. In my opinion Hemp does not need EQ, not at all.
Music takes you attention, no need to "stare" FR or any other dump stuff.
That's doesn't make any sense, you can dislike few things about them but "dull and lifeless " is pure madness. I have them and I love them and they are full of life and character.
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This like many others comments here totally lack of honesty, they sound snobbish and hardly helpful. I've few headphones and I had the chance to listen many others. Grado are different and in a way unique. I just purchased 325x and are fantastic headphones, I'm probably still young enough to not fall apart listening some headphones
i also love my 325Xs. as much as my 6XX but less than my focal clears and hifiman HE500s.
I also love my HD600 (real love for them) and my personal best for classic music. I bought Grado to complete my collection because of the so unique sound and because they are fantastic for Rock and Metal. What pisses me off is when people labels things as "garbage" just because they don't like something. It would be like if I say that are idiots because they don't share my taste, on the contrary I simply say that I disagree. I can't stand the dumb arrogance
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Untrue. The rest I won’t argue with.
Clears are the "clear" winner in resolution. I think you have look at Grado models that are much more expensive than the 325X in order to match it.
Peterinvan
Senior Member
My experience is that the Meze 109 Pro was like adding a good quality sub-woofer to a pair of Grados.
Sold 325 OG and 325X.
Sold 325 OG and 325X.
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