Why a completely flat response is what we all want in listening audio equipment

[FNQGuy]

I love this thread, I propose somebody does a survey of AK . Thread title should read, " Show us your curves" A simple smoothed to 1/6 or 1/3, at the listening position , the only other variable should be your age...LOL. Then someone correlate the responses on a decade by decade basis.. Genre of music is inferred be age...My kids say my highs are too much and prefer the doof.. people my age say its well balanced. Well that's because your deaf above 13k.. LOL... Just a thought...And no I wont do it... :<).. with enough data, you should be able to tell the listeners age within a week or two...

 

[cedd]

In the global competitive world of audio in all of its forms, any significant audio product manufacturer that aims it product at the audiophile only audience (apart from specialist boutique companies) needs its head read if they are going to make profits, compete rigorously and try to increase market advantage and size.

Well if we blame capitalism then we have to blame the consumer, us audiophiles, for proving them right by buying their sops at inflated prices; and being enthusiastic about it to boot! (though this community gives hope lol)

 

[cedd]

This isn't even wrong...it's misconceived from the start.

Funny, that's the working title of my biography!

 

[EJ3]

It is easier to EQ for preference from a known than an unknown. A flat frequency response would be a known. A Harmen curve (or some other curve) would be a known. So you get it to a known point and then adjust to taste. (perhaps adjust to your hearing). Kind of like cooking: spice to taste. Because I like it doesn't mean you like it. Or visa versa. But starting at a known reference point makes it easier. My outside deck in my 3/4 acre back yard is going to require vastly different EQing than my large living room with a ceiling that is 8 feet on one side and 12 feet on the other, with a curved bay window on the lower side. But, since the equipment can do a flat curve for a starting point, then you can add or subtract subs and make adjustments, per need and taste.

I love this thread, I propose somebody does a survey of AK . Thread title should read, " Show us your curves" A simple smoothed to 1/6 or 1/3, at the listening position , the only other variable should be your age...LOL. Then someone correlate the responses on a decade by decade basis.. Genre of music is inferred be age...My kids say my highs are too much and prefer the doof.. people my age say its well balanced. Well that's because your deaf above 13k.. LOL... Just a thought...And no I wont do it... :<).. with enough data, you should be able to tell the listeners age within a week or two...

There are still too many variables to infer age: do they: ride in convertibles, motorcycles (with helmet or without?), go to the race track? participate in un-muffled automotive sports?, ATV's, etc; work as a lawn maintenance person or in a machine shop?; born missing an eardrum? Work on computers in a clean room or in a library, etc. The average person where I live will have both genetic aging of their hearing and changes in hearing due to their daily activities. Mine has a completely different response in my left ear and my right ear. (These are just a few & don't include preferences [and many other things] such as my wife was born and raised in a culture that did not use western musical instruments and likes music that sounds completely different than music I like)

 

[Rock Rabbit]

To clarify things: Audio engineers use FLAT studio monitors (maybe some treble tilt) in nearfield conditions (forget the room!), equalization is about some balance in the mix (put forward some instrument or voice, bass vs drums etc). Then you can use non studio speakers in a reverberant room and fight with resonances, or use headphones that needs another kind of response curve to hear similar to "room" condition. More precisely, headphones needs a target response without EQ (generally EQ is limited by max excursion and distortion, so try to avoid it to meet the "target"), headphones need to be essentially non flat to sound "natural"

 

[Dj7675]

I'd like to point out this is a philosophical matter and not something that can be answered with science or numbers.

My reasoning is simple. We use listening audio equipment to listen to the waves encoded by recordings, not the waves encoded in our listening audio equipment. If the latter were the case there would be people listening to headphones without a recording playing; obviously no one does this... lol...

The Harman curve is imprecise. It is not ever going to be the same for everyone as everyone's ears are different. This means, by using it as a metric, we end up in the situation we're in now with a vast array of audio equipment that are all targeting slightly different curves, resulting in an infinite numbers of colorings and no fixed authority to say one more faithfully reproduces a recording than another. The end result is the diminishment of influence that any recording has over the listener's experience. At best, adherence to the Harman curve distorts the recorder's intentions, making their recordings more pleasing to hear by picking up the slack in their poor choices. At worst it stifles recording practice growth and maturity by hiding to the recorder their unadulterated choices, failing to give the honest feedback necessary to improve.

The Harman curve is extremely useful in sound engineering, particularly when making a pleasing song or soundscape. I don't deny this. But that is not an excuse to force it on every recording regardless of if the recording's intention is to sound pleasing or "balanced" to our ears or not. And certainly if someone just wants to listen to pleasing sounds they would probably benefit by tuning their listening equipment to this curve. But that doesn't make it a valid metric to judge the equipment's frequency response against.

A flat response is flat for everyone. It's the only sensible aim for listening audio equipment and it's what all equipment should be striving for.

One of my favorite posts on ASR is a collection of comments, explanation etc of a variety of things, but in particular the “HARMAN curve” by Floyd Toole from AVSForum. After reading all of his comments, quotes and explanations, you may have a different understanding of the HARMAN curve. It is nothing more than in room measurements of a good, well designed speaker in a normal room.

Some comments from Floyd Toole about room curve targets, room EQ and more

Room curve targets Every so often it is good to review what we know about room curves, targets, etc. Almost 50 years of double-blind listening tests have shown persuasively that listeners like loudspeakers with flat, smooth, anechoic on-axis and listening-window frequency responses. Those with...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[kongwee]

If you assume flat response will be closer to studio mix. Yes and no. Producer may have the mix version base on 8361A. Yes you will be very happy to own one! But producer mix very likely to send master in those JBL, B&W..... Etc, like all those audiophile has. Of course, you can eq 8361A to mimic these speaker too.