Which DIY speakers would you like to see reviewed?

[ta240]

Companies like Rythmik Audio, headquartered here in Austin, design and specify the speaker (in this case, subwoofer) design, source the various component parts globally, direct the parts to go to one place or another, and then either (1) do assembly and packaging overseas for a ready-to-ship product or (2) customize some assembly in Austin for more unusual (or large) subs. I personally found that I couldn't put the same quality together for the same price.

However, I am considering copying the enclosure but in a nicer material, like walnut-veneered plywood to match other things in the room. But that will take gobs of time plus a $100 sheet of expensive plywood.

For the better DIY kits, if the DIY'er does the woodwork, that is a huge factor in getting the price of the kit down.

That is true, for a good quality enclosure, rather than just a slapped together one, DIY could save a fair amount.

 

[maltux]

Speaker kits I have built from best to worst:

HiVi - DIY 2.2A – 2-Way Bookshelf Speaker Kit $249 HIVI
Overnight Sensations MT Speaker Kit Pair $138 Overnight Sensations
TriTrix MTM TL Tower Speaker Components and Cabinet Kit Pair $299 TriTrix
GR Research (Danny Ritchie) X-LS Encore Kit $249 XLS

The first two I can heartily endorse.
The Overnight Sensations were $100 when I built them and I believe are still a great deal. The HIVI are my prime stereo speaker and by far my favorite. I paid @239 for the TriTrix and use them in my surround sound TV setup. I believe you can get better for the money. The X-LS; I paid $100 for 10 years ago and use them in my den hooked up to my computer. All but the last include knockdown cabinets. I would not buy the kit for $100 even now.

 

[617]

If someone near Amir has them, a Linkwitz open baffle design: LX521, LX mini, even the old ORION or Phoenix.

Or alternatively the Nao open baffle designs from John K.
I'd like to see one of Jeff Bagby's designs such as the Kairos, which uses the SB Satori drivers with a very shallow crossover.

 

[Ron Texas]

The bigger the reputation, the more interesting a test of the speaker will be.

 

[617]

The bigger the reputation, the more interesting a test of the speaker will be.

I mean the purpose of ASR is not to destroy reputations, DIY designers don't have fancy measurement rigs, and many of them come from an era where off axis modelling was pretty simplistic. The solutions that they came up with using off the shelf drivers on flat baffles required a lot of creativity and expertise.

The 'interesting' tests will be of speakers that did unusual things, like special crossover slopes, open tunnel midranges, dipole stuff, etc.

Dipoles are a really interesting case since they are really easy for a diyer to make (easier than a waveguide certainly) and fix many of the issues with box speakers which even big waveguide speakers don't address, namely the steady attenuation of reverberant high frequency energy in the room. If I had the space, I would absolutely own a pair of dynamic driver dipoles along with other speakers.

 

[jlucas]

I'd really like to see the LXmini that others have mentioned as well.

 

[amirm]

I'd really like to see the LXmini that others have mentioned as well.

It would be tricky to balance that on the measurement platform. Is the main tube closed at the bottom or open? And how top heavy is it?

 

[jlucas]

I don't have one so I can't answer those questions but it's one of the ones I'm considering building.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

I don't have one so I can't answer those questions but it's one of the ones I'm considering building.

You're aware there's a complete 360 degree measurement on the LXmini speaker on the Linkwitz design page?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Design.htm
During the development phase these speakers were measured outdoors on an elevated platform, as was the standard design practice of Siegfried for many years.

Dave.

 

[617]

It would be tricky to balance that on the measurement platform. Is the main tube closed at the bottom or open? And how top heavy is it?

It's a closed transmission line. You might need to stick it down with something but assuming your platform is level it shouldn't be a problem. It's a very, very interesting radiation pattern.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Companies like Rythmik Audio, headquartered here in Austin, design and specify the speaker (in this case, subwoofer) design, source the various component parts globally, direct the parts to go to one place or another, and then either (1) do assembly and packaging overseas for a ready-to-ship product or (2) customize some assembly in Austin for more unusual (or large) subs. I personally found that I couldn't put the same quality together for the same price.

However, I am considering copying the enclosure but in a nicer material, like walnut-veneered plywood to match other things in the room. But that will take gobs of time plus a $100 sheet of expensive plywood.

For the better DIY kits, if the DIY'er does the woodwork, that is a huge factor in getting the price of the kit down.

Companies like Rythmik Audio, headquartered here in Austin, design and specify the speaker (in this case, subwoofer) design, source the various component parts globally, direct the parts to go to one place or another, and then either (1) do assembly and packaging overseas for a ready-to-ship product or (2) customize some assembly in Austin for more unusual (or large) subs. I personally found that I couldn't put the same quality together for the same price.

However, I am considering copying the enclosure but in a nicer material, like walnut-veneered plywood to match other things in the room. But that will take gobs of time plus a $100 sheet of expensive plywood.

For the better DIY kits, if the DIY'er does the woodwork, that is a huge factor in getting the price of the kit down.

I have a comparable experience, but only subwoofers seem to be where there is some question. I have salvaged many mass market commercial speakers (ads, advent, HTD, several rs minimus and others) and have never seen them have better drivers, crossovers or cabinets than a comparable speaker from a respectable DIY designer.

Most DIY drivers are produced in volume so no major advantage to commercial ones there. Commercial crossovers are often borderline junk. Cabinets are often thin wood or plastic. The cast metal cabinets were an exception, but then the drivers and crossovers were traded off. There some potential for newer active stuff to break out, but will see. IMO, the temptation of better profits often drives most budget commercial speakers to significant compromises. I hope the future offers some improvements but am confident DIY is a better value for now.

 

[Rick Sykora]

You're aware there's a complete 360 degree measurement on the LXmini speaker on the Linkwitz design page?
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/LXmini/Design.htm
During the development phase these speakers were measured outdoors on an elevated platform, as was the standard design practice of Siegfried for many years.

Dave.

Little doubt Linkwitz was a great engineer. His measurements are an example of exemplary effort. However, they are difficult to compare to anything else as his measurement conditions are not readily reproduced. I think this is where ASR has an opportunity to offer comparisons in a consistent environment.

 

[bluefuzz]

That said, his use of expensive boutique crossover components kinda puts me off. I were to built one of his designs,

Well, as he has stated several times, if he wasn't sponsored by Jantzen et. al. then most of his designs would never see the light of day. He usually does several versions of the kits at different price points. I have looked at sourcing some of his designs elsewhere but Jantzen's prices almost always come out cheaper in the end. That may be different if you're not in Denmark/Europe.

I'd definitely use components that are better with regards price/performance.

How do you know they are better? As Troels also says with regard to 'boutique' caps and coils 'if you can't hear the difference then the rest of your gear isn't good enough'. But that may be a thing Amir could test at some point. Can people hear the difference between 'ordinary' caps and coils in a crossover and 'boutique' ones? Can they hear the difference between a digital crossover and an analogue one ...?

 

[Severian]

I'm glad to see this effort. I have three SEAS Idunns and am scouting my next project (looking at the DIYSG Helix MTMs or perhaps the Vortex coaxials if the flat packs ever show up), so I could soon be in the position to send one in.

FWIW I think the SEAS DXT tweeter is excellent but overall the Idunn has very anemic bass given the size of its cabinet. It needs a crazy amount of power to hear any thump at all. I think the crossover could be better. I would not recommend it without subwoofers. I've always wanted to hear another DXT design for comparison.

 

[Rick Sykora]

Here is my promised update on criteria for submission of DIY builds from members. Remember we are only initially accepting speakers that are commercially available and a half a cubic foot or smaller (see my OP for details). Note that the built speaker should not be modified from the supplied kit (or designer specs if not purchased in kit).

I am requesting the following:

1. Pictures of the finished unit (front and back). Also some info on the age of the speaker just to know that it is representative of a currently available one for others to purchase.
2. An on-axis SPL frequency response (FR) graph from REW (or equivalent measurement system) with known conditions stated (usual stuff like equipment used, distance, etc.). Vertical axis scale range should be no more than 60 dB. If gated measurement...
3. IR graph to demonstrate how your determined gating and how it affected your FR measurement.

I think we all want reasonable assurances that the results of a DIY build could be readily reproduced. This should also reduce iterations that might otherwise slow Amir’s more comprehensive testing.

Please request any modifications to these requirements by February 8, 2020.

Thanks!

 

[Biblob]

Here is my promised update on criteria for submission of DIY builds from members. Remember we are only initially accepting speakers that are commercially available and a half a cubic foot or smaller (see my OP for details). Note that the built speaker should not be modified from the supplied kit (or designer specs if not purchased in kit).

I am requesting the following:

1. Pictures of the finished unit (front and back). Also some info on the age of the speaker just to know that it is representative of a currently available one for others to purchase.
2. An on-axis SPL frequency response (FR) graph from REW (or equivalent measurement system) with known conditions stated (usual stuff like equipment used, distance, etc.). Vertical axis scale range should be no more than 60 dB. If gated measurement...
3. IR graph to demonstrate how your determined gating and how it affected your FR measurement.

I think we all want reasonable assurances that the results of a DIY build could be readily reproduced. This should also reduce iterations that might otherwise slow Amir’s more comprehensive testing.

Please request any modifications to these requirements by February 8, 2020.

Thanks!

For the Heißmann designs, you will find all information you need in the links I provided.

 

[Deleted member 2944]

Little doubt Linkwitz was a great engineer. His measurements are an example of exemplary effort. However, they are difficult to compare to anything else as his measurement conditions are not readily reproduced. I think this is where ASR has an opportunity to offer comparisons in a consistent environment.

I don't think a consistent environment is the variable here. Interpretation of the results could be.
The Linkwitz design philosophy is quite different than many other "traditional" speaker design approaches.

As you might know, I have a long history of listening to the LXmini system. I don't need a $100k Klippel system to tell me these are extremely well-engineered speakers that provide enjoyable music playback of all types.

That said, I probably have sufficient parts/pieces kicking around to put together another set of LXmini's to offer as a donor speaker for Amir's testing efforts. I live only about 30 minutes drive from him.

Dave.

 

[RickSanchez]

I've been tinkering with my own DIY speaker design for several months now and I've got a solid prototype built. I'd be curious to see what the Klippel NFS system measures for these ...

 

[mhardy6647]

...
How do you know they are better? As Troels also says with regard to 'boutique' caps and coils 'if you can't hear the difference then the rest of your gear isn't good enough'. But that may be a thing Amir could test at some point. Can people hear the difference between 'ordinary' caps and coils in a crossover and 'boutique' ones? Can they hear the difference between a digital crossover and an analogue one ...?

The emperor's new clothes line of reasoning, as I like to call it. If you can't hear the difference, the problem is with you -- your system's not resolving enough.

Now, I am not quite as objectivist as all y'all. OK, that's an understatement -- but I am a scientist, not an engineer, and by and large, the two breeds do think, or at least approach problems, somewhat differently. I've definitely detected differences aurally (shall we say) between different passive components in a crossover... but, if and when I can't, I don't think too highly of the "not resolving enough" response. I do figure that any audible difference should be measurable, even if one doesn't know how to measure it (or, perhaps, one's measuring equipment isn't resolving enough... that is possible).

Which is my long-winded way of saying "yeah, it's a testable hypothesis" indeed.

 

[maltux]

I could submit these...
$30 Speakers