What DAC to try in effort to see if a separate DAC improves music sound vs my Anthem STR preamp?

[MarcT]

I will be a newbie to separate DAC's, as I've never owned one. I'm thinking up to around $500 and intend to buy one that is returnable if I cannot discern any improvement. I will be using USB input on the DAC. I can connect the DAC to the STR via either rca or XLR cable(the DAC is connected to my power amp with XLR cables, if that matters).

I know the Anthem STR preamp is supposed to have a decent DAC but nothing state of the art, as far as I know. This is to plug into the STR via interconnect cables. Any recommendations appreciated.

 

[Dunring]

Keeping it under $200 is easy, so many to choose from, it's mainly down to connectivity and features. For balanced the Topping D10b is good if you just need balanced out. The E50 has both RCA and 1/4 inch balanced which need the right cable or XLR adapter.
I used the SMSL DL200 which is a 5 volt DAC with a nice amplifier to boot. $170 on sale at Amazon and with filter 2 it's excellent on my Topping A90 amplifier.

 

[MarcT]

Keeping it under $200 is easy, so many to choose from, it's mainly down to connectivity and features. For balanced the Topping D10b is good if you just need balanced out. The E50 has both RCA and 1/4 inch balanced which need the right cable or XLR adapter.
I used the SMSL DL200 which is a 5 volt DAC with a nice amplifier to boot. $170 on sale at Amazon and with filter 2 it's excellent on my Topping A90 amplifier.

Thanks, what about this Topping E70 Velvet? Yea or nay?

TOPPING E70 VELVET AK4499EX Desktop DAC (Digital-to-Analog-Convertor)

The Topping E70 Velvet AK4499EX Desktop DAC delivers a premium audio experience with its high-performance digital-to-analog conversion capabilities. Featuring the advanced AK4499EX DAC chip, the E70 Velvet ensures exceptional sound quality with precision, detail, and clarity. The device's...

apos.audio

 

[Norcal]

I will be a newbie to separate DAC's, as I've never owned one. I'm thinking up to around $500 and intend to buy one that is returnable if I cannot discern any improvement. I will be using USB input on the DAC. I can connect the DAC to the STR via either rca or XLR cable(the DAC is connected to my power amp with XLR cables, if that matters).

I know the Anthem STR preamp is supposed to have a decent DAC but nothing state of the art, as far as I know. This is to plug into the STR via interconnect cables. Any recommendations appreciated.

If you feed the Anthem an analog signal, will it still be able to do room correction, or would it have to re-digitize the signal first?

 

[MarcT]

If you feed the Anthem an analog signal, will it still be able to do room correction, or would it have to re-digitize the signal first?

Not sure. I haven't yet used the room correction.

 

[Norcal]

Not sure. I haven't yet used the room correction.

Ah, I see. It just seems like the value proposition of the Anthem (and it isn't cheap) is mostly in the DSP and room correction, so if you bypass all that stuff via the Topping, you wouldn't need the Anthem at all, unless you don't trust the Topping volume control?

 

[MarcT]

Ah, I see. It just seems like the value proposition of the Anthem (and it isn't cheap) is mostly in the DSP and room correction, so if you bypass all that stuff via the Topping, you wouldn't need the Anthem at all, unless you don't trust the Topping volume control?

The Anthem has home theater bypass, which I use with my AVR. Thus, my separate power amp drives the front L/R speakers.

 

[DVDdoug]

I wouldn't expect to hear a difference. I've never heard a difference or defect from a DAC, except once had a soundcard that would make nose through the speakers/headphones when the hard drive was accessed.

And if there is a defect/difference it will probably be noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Frequency response and distortion are almost always better than human hearing. (Those are the only 3 sound-characteristics that affect "sound quality" of a DAC or other electronics.)

and intend to buy one that is returnable if I cannot discern any improvement.

If you compare, do your best to match volume levels. Otherwise the louder one will usually be perceived as "better".

And if you want to be scientific about it, measure a test-tone with a multimeter to match the levels, and then get someone to help with the random switching and do a blind ABX test. If you don't already have a multimeter, it doesn't need to be an expensive-accurate one. All you need is repeatable measurements. If both signals measure 1 Volt (or whatever) you know they both match. Volume matching is required for an ABX test because if one is louder you'll always hear a difference between A & B, and the whole point of an ABX test is to determine if you can statistically-reliably hear any difference. It's not intended to tell you which one is better.

 

[MarcT]

I wouldn't expect to hear a difference. I've never heard a difference or defect from a DAC, except once had a soundcard that would make nose through the speakers/headphones when the hard drive was accessed.

And if there is a defect/difference it will probably be noise (hum, hiss, or whine in the background). Frequency response and distortion are almost always better than human hearing. (Those are the only 3 sound-characteristics that affect "sound quality" of a DAC or other electronics.)


If you compare, do your best to match volume levels. Otherwise the louder one will usually be perceived as "better".

And if you want to be scientific about it, measure a test-tone with a multimeter to match the levels, and then get someone to help with the random switching and do a blind ABX test. If you don't already have a multimeter, it doesn't need to be an expensive-accurate one. All you need is repeatable measurements. If both signals measure 1 Volt (or whatever) you know they both match. Volume matching is required for an ABX test because if one is louder you'll always hear a difference between A & B, and the whole point of an ABX test is to determine if you can statistically-reliably hear any difference. It's not intended to tell you which one is better.

Thanks, I don't expect to hear a difference, either. I just want to find out if there is any easily noticeable difference. I have an open mind. But it does beg the question as to why there are so many DAC's tested here, if there's not going to be a noticeable difference.

Can anyone provide any more recommendations to consider?

 

[Purité Audio]

Spend the money on beer.
Keith

 

[MarcT]

Spend the money on beer.
Keith

Lol, maybe some nice coffee. I'm not a beer drinker.

 

[Jimbob54]

But it does beg the question as to why there are so many DAC's tested here

Because (to a far lesser extent these days) people keep making bad ones, especially when integrating into other kit.

A better question is why are so many designed, built, bought/sold?

 

[MAB]

Can anyone provide any more recommendations to consider?

I recommend taking the Klippel listening test. It might help you set your expectations on if a potentially higher SINAD device. Are you thinking you can hear the difference between an Apple dongle or a Topping, or your Anthem? Unless the Anthem is broken, no way.
And use the room correction. That will actually make a difference, assuming the Anthem has a useful implementation. If not get a MiniDSP flex with DIRAC and you will have SOTA DAC plus SOTA DSP. Or an RME-ADI, for even more SOTA.

 

[BarryTone]

I hope to never own a separate DAC. I would try one of these instead that Amir just tested:

WiiM Pro Plus Streamer Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of the WiiM Pro Plus streamer, DAC and preamplifier with Bluetooth support. It was sent to me by the company and costs US $219. While the case is plastic, it still "looks the part" as the Brits would say relative to other more famous brands of...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Purité Audio]

Lol, maybe some nice coffee. I'm not a beer drinker.

Start.
Keith

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Not sure. I haven't yet used the room correction.

Then your are missing out on the best part.

As others have explained it is very very very unlikely that you will hear a difference with an external DAC when tested controlled even if it measures better.

However your room adds distortions (room modes) up to 20dB to the recorded signal especially at low frequencies. This is up to 10.000.000 more than a -120dB SINAD DAC roughly. If you correct those room modes you get an audible improvement for free. So try it out before spending money on an external DAC.

 

[TonyJZX]

i think this uses the AKM4450 type units which would be easily comparable with whatevers new now

this unit does have full passthru and so i would get any sub $500 smsl dac and see how it goes

and yeah the dsp room correction is the juice

 

[VintageFlanker]

@MarcT

These are some AP measurements of the STR Preamp :

Anthem STR Preamp and Power Amplifier Review

The Anthem STR preamp and power amplifier emphasize fidelity first armed with the latest in 32 bit DSP, ARC room correction, and oodles of power reserves on tap. More details in our review so read on.

www.audioholics.com

It's perfectly fine. Just save your money.

At the end of the day, keep in mind that its DSP features (muuuuuch more important to the actual sound) will come through an ADC and so, through its internal DAC anyway...

Save your money (twice).

 

[antcollinet]

Your pre-amp is already transparent. You will NOT be able to hear any difference to any other transparent DAC**. Then as pointed out above, you lose all the benefits of the DSP in your preamp. You may not be using it now, but you should.

In fact a far more worthwhile experiment - and cost free - would be to try out the room correction your kit already provides for you. This you should be able to hear, and the improvement should be dramatic.


**If you do it will only be from listening sighted, and will come from subconscious bias.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

@MarcT

These are some AP measurements of the STR Preamp :

Anthem STR Preamp and Power Amplifier Review

The Anthem STR preamp and power amplifier emphasize fidelity first armed with the latest in 32 bit DSP, ARC room correction, and oodles of power reserves on tap. More details in our review so read on.

www.audioholics.com

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It's perfectly fine. Just save your money.

At the end of the day, keep in mind that its DSP features will come through an ADC and so, through its internal DAC anyway...

Save your money (twice).

Thanks for sharing. This is an excellent preamp.