Very Budget DACs

[Seysin]

Lately I have found out about the MBQuart MB21P Dongle DAC/HPA. It has great measurements (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/measurements-of-mbquart-mb21p-usbdac-hpamp/) and apparently just costs ~15$.
That made me wonder if by now there are some very cheap simple (like USB digital in, unbalanced out) standalone DACs with SINAD > 110db etc. at such a bottom price point.

 

[threni]

Lately I have found out about the MBQuart MB21P Dongle DAC/HPA. It has great measurements (https://www.l7audiolab.com/f/measurements-of-mbquart-mb21p-usbdac-hpamp/) and apparently just costs ~15$.
That made me wonder if by now there are some very cheap simple (like USB digital in, unbalanced out) standalone DACs with SINAD > 110db etc. at such a bottom price point.

Apple do one for £9/$9:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

(Edit: Almost 110db, anyway! You're not going to hear the difference)

 

[Seysin]

Apple do one for £9/$9:

Review: Apple vs Google USB-C Headphone Adapters

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Apple's USB-C adapter to the current and last version of Google Pixel headphone adapters. The Apple adapter costs just $9 including one day shipping for free. The Google dongle costs $12. Not that any of these are large by any stretch...

www.audiosciencereview.com

(Edit: Almost 110db, anyway! You're not going to hear the difference)

Sorry if my post was not clear enough. I know that there are some good measuring dongles, but I wanted to know about standalone DACs with unbalanced stereo output. The dongle I named was just meant as an example for very good measurements at a very low price.

My thoughts were like: Why pay 100+$ for something like the Topping D10s if this tiny cheap dongle that has a HPA in addition kind of matches this performance today and if there were such good products as standalone DACs. Enclosure + connectors might add a little to the cost, but this performance for like 30$ or something would seem plausible.

 

[Berwhale]

Sorry if my post was not clear enough. I know that there are some good measuring dongles, but I wanted to know about standalone DACs with unbalanced stereo output. The dongle I named was just meant as an example for very good measurements at a very low price.

You mean a DAC in a nice box that can sit on your desktop and is cheap? You realise that you'd just be paying for the box, right? Then it's just a matter of taste and personal preference.

If 'cheap' is under $100, then the Topping D10s fits the bill... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-d10s-usb-dac-and-bridge-review.14859/

 

[Berwhale]

Dedicated DACs, recommended by Amirm, with SINAD over 100 and price at or under $100...

 

[Seysin]

You mean a DAC in a nice box that can sit on your desktop and is cheap? You realise that you'd just be paying for the box, right? Then it's just a matter of taste and personal preference.

If 'cheap' is under $100, then the Topping D10s fits the bill... https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...topping-d10s-usb-dac-and-bridge-review.14859/

Topping D10s has additional features, therefore the connectors + the enclosure must be bigger. So I'd think there is enough room to cut cost.
In addition the D10s is kind of old by now. Of course that doesn't make it bad, but I think these little dongles prove that technology is able to reduce size much further by now, which would also reduce needed enclosure size and therefore price.

 

[threni]

You mean a DAC in a nice box that can sit on your desktop and is cheap? You realise that you'd just be paying for the box, right? Then it's just a matter of taste and personal preference.

I put the Apple dongle and the player in a box!

 

[Seysin]

Dedicated DACs, recommended by Amirm, with SINAD over 100 and price at or under $100...

View attachment 268596

I know this list and just had a look at it before i've made the post. Most results are old and like I said I'm searching for super budget DACs. I don't think that one of such has been measured here, but I thought maybe forum members knew of such products if they were released lately and/or covered on other sites.

 

[Berwhale]

I know this list and just had a look at it before i've made the post. Most results are old and like I said I'm searching for super budget DACs. I don't think that one of such has been measured here, but I thought maybe forum members knew of such products if they were released lately and/or covered on other sites.

What you are asking for is the dongle you linked to.... in a box. Like I said (and @threni humorously illustrated). I don't think there is much of a market for the device you imagine, why wouldn't you just buy the dongle + 3.5mm to RCA cable and hide it all behind your PC or monitor?

 

[Seysin]

What you are asking for is the dongle you linked to.... in a box. Like I said (and @threni humorously illustrated). I don't think there is much of a market for the device you imagine, why wouldn't you just buy the dongle + 3.5mm to RCA cable and hide it all behind your PC or monitor?

Here seems to be a misunderstanding. Maybe it's my fault for using words that may have a double meaning. With standalone I meant a unit that just is a DAC, so has no headphone amplifier. With unbalanced stereo output I didn't mean 3.5mm but 2x RCA line-level.

These dongles are all combo-units with DAC/HPA.

Also I never said that I wanted a shiny box or something. I guess a commercial product would come in a box, but if it's the cheapest plastic or full stainless steel, I seek only for the very budget.

 

[Seysin]

So something super basic like this:

World's Cheapest DAC Review

This is a review and detailed measurements of what has to be the world's cheapest DAC. It is so cheap it doesn't even have a name! It is literally called "Digital To Analog Audio Converter." Actually, it is also available under many other names on various sites (Amazon, Ebay, AliExpress...

www.audiosciencereview.com

But with good measurements and maybe with USB (digital in + power).

 

[threni]

Here seems to be a misunderstanding. Maybe it's my fault for using words that may have a double meaning. With standalone I meant a unit that just is a DAC, so has no headphone amplifier. With unbalanced stereo output I didn't mean 3.5mm but 2x RCA line-level.

These dongles are all combo-units with DAC/HPA.

Doesn't the Apple dongle with its very lower power output qualify as line-out / line-level DAC?

 

[DVDdoug]

Most DAC chips are cheap. At one time I was looking-up prices and one of the "best" high-end chips was something like $5 USD. Things may have changed, but it's mostly the "other stuff"... The power supply, the box, the circuit board, the connectors & knobs, and the support circuitry, and the engineering required to make it all work well when put together. And the marketing & distribution costs and all of the other overhead. And... A higher price makes it more appealing to "audiophiles"!

I've never owned a stand-alone DAC. I've just used the soundcard in my computer or my AVR. I have had a couple of noisy soundcards. But it's probably not just the soundcard or soundchip. I'm sure it's related to power supply noise and the other electrical noise inside the computer. If there is an audible difference, usually it's noise.

so has no headphone amplifier

A headphone-output is very similar to a line-output and it can be used into a line-input. Of course it usually has a different connector, and some line outputs are not volume controlled. They are about the same voltage and the main difference is that a headphone output is capable of driving a lower impedance load and some headphone outputs are capable of higher voltage..

 

[Berwhale]

These dongles are all combo-units with DAC/HPA.

My understanding is that the HPA capability of these dongles is usually just a capability of the DAC chip itself...

 

[Seysin]

It's not so much about really needing line-level (correct voltage etc.), but I have a Topping L30 so I don't need further amplification beforehand and a cheap amplifier will rather reduce the performance in this setup.

Furthermore this thread is not really about purchase advice (whereby I would probably buy a device that fits my question), but about what the market has to offer. Out of curiosity. If L7Audiolab hadn't covered the MB21P I would have guessed that it's another mediocre el cheapo chinese mass product. Of course there is a great market for dongles (now that almost every smartphone maker has removed the 3.5mm jacks from there top-of-the-line phones, shame on them).
That's why they get more coverage but that's also why I have to ask this question, as you don't have problems to find a very good DAC with lots of additional features if you are willing to spend <1000$ (looking at you all the Toppings and SMSLs) but I feel like it's hard to find measurements on these very basic devices at low price tiers. At the other hand I feel like there must be a few good ones of them if modern dongles achieve so much for so little.

 

[Jeromeof]

I have this Headphone Amp + DAC in one room and it is fine https://www.aiyima.com/products/dac...fier-digital-optical-coaxial-pc-usb-converter

It wasn't measured here but it was on this site a year or so ago: https://www-ixbt-com.translate.goog...l=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp

Mostly pretty happy with it - but I did change the power supply - so I guess companies will try and save ever little bit of money they can to lower the price.

 

[julian_hughes]

Specific to the Topping D10 series: as well as USB input and line out, they also have SPDIF and Coax *out*. For some people this is really useful. For example I have the line out going to my headphone amp but coax digital out going to a coax input on another device (a "full" or "pure" digital amp i.e. pcm to pwm amplifier) which drives some bookshelf speakers. You can't do this with a dongle and being able to do it meant I could set up my desktop audio as I preferred. The money spent of the Topping D10 was money well spent.

 

[Deleted member 58865]

MBQuart MB21P is optimal for efficient low-impedance headphones or earphones. However, since its output is not line-out, if it is paired with a power amplifier that has analogue volume knob, you may find it difficult to control the volume. If its output is stronger than line-out and the volume knob has channel imbalance below 9'o clock, you may need a pair of -20dB or -12dB RCA attenuators to compensate for the stronger output. Channel imbalance drives me crazy. If the left speaker is noticeably louder than the right or vice versa, you will be driven crazy, too.

If you want a cheap DAC for power amplifiers, at least, look for one that has line-out.

On top of that, MB21P is a USB-C device. My old desktop computer doesn't have a USB-C port.

It is cheap and good because it is optimal only for efficient low-impedance headphones/earphones. It lacks versatility. You are paying less for less versatility and less functionality.
If you know what you are getting for the price, then good.

 

[Deleted member 58865]

Specific to the Topping D10 series: as well as USB input and line out, they also have SPDIF and Coax *out*. For some people this is really useful. For example I have the line out going to my headphone amp but coax digital out going to a coax input on another device (a "full" or "pure" digital amp i.e. pcm to pwm amplifier) which drives some bookshelf speakers. You can't do this with a dongle and being able to do it meant I could set up my desktop audio as I preferred. The money spent of the Topping D10 was money well spent.

Does Topping D10 let you switch between line-out and Coax out through software volume control or a hardware switch?

 

[Tom C]

The problem with the OP question is that the answer does not depend only on whatever may be on offer at a particular point in time. In order to qualify, it has to have been on the test bench. That takes time and money.
The list of sites offering test results of the caliber Amir provides here is quite short, so the quick answer to your question is, that if you didn’t find it in the ASR list, there is only a very slim chance it exists. Do the world a favor and find and test the device yourself.