Topping a90discrete

[staticV3]

@nonnyno looking at Topping's specs:


Could it be that you're using the A90D's SE output? Because that has less gain and less max power than the L50 with either of its outputs.

 

[nonnyno]

Ok thank you. I accept I'm not providing the info necessary. I am not an engineer and not particularly technical. I accept that different units will have different volume curves but I am slightly surprised to find such variation within a manufacturer. That said I suspect that the volume curve differential is the answer. The unit can go loud At 60 its already becoming loud. I haven't taken it to 70 yet as its quite uncomfortable.

The driver is the Topping 5.3 usb driver.

So perhaps it is fact simply down to the different volume behaviors characteristics on the machine and I just have to get over a built in aversion to turning the volume controls right up for normal listening.

Oh and yes I am using the single ended output. I didnt realise it was that much less powerful that the L50's

 

[staticV3]

Oh and yes I am using the single ended output. I didnt realise it was that much less powerful that the L50's

For high gain, high power SE output, the Topping A30Pro is the best they currently offer.

 

[nonnyno]

For high gain, high power SE output, the Topping A30Pro is the best they currently offer.

Well like I said previously. I bought the "90 stack" with a view to using the dca stealths balanced on them. The aim was an end game setup. I had previously listened to the dca aeon 2 noires and the beyer dt 770 32 ohm on the e50/l50 stack and was wowed by the dca aeon 2 noires. Even the Beyers sounded pretty impressive on it. I'm just waiting for the Stealth which is in the post. I was just a bit disappointed when I heard the Beyers at moderate volume settings SE on the a90d in comparison. The d90se on the other hand is detailed as all hell (sorry not objective language I know) but it really takes things apart even more so than the e50 to my ears anyway. As you turn up the a90d it starts to get pretty loud and you really hear stuff but I'm just not used to turning amps up that far to get what I want out of them. I was somewhat twitched as a result.

 

[nonnyno]

I'm excited to see what the improvement is from the Aeon 2 Noire to the Stealth is in your new found experience. I reallly like lots of treble and not so much bass unless the headphone has some extraordinary abilities. So if you can post your impressions between the two headphones that would be sooper.

Hi, Well I sent the d90se and A90d back. Sure they were good and I thought I could hear marginally more detail from the d90se than from the E50 (though that was only from recent memory). Turns out I couldn't. Basically the objectivists are right. If you think you can hear improvement you probably can't!

So my new E50/L50 turned up (I had previously listened to the DCA Aeon 2 Noires on the E50/L50 stack and was totally happy with them). For £477 they are a bargain. Sure they might not look quite as sexy as the D90se/A90d combo but they sound so close as to make one question spending the extra £1000 to get the theoretical improvement.

The Stealths turned up yesterday. So I eagerly plugged them in and of course the L50 has no problem driving them whatsoever.

Are they better than the Aeon 2 Noires?

Yes I think so (again it was from recent memory so can't be 100% sure but I do tend to note things that stand out and remember them on specific tracks). There were several places where stuff stood out which I do not remember hearing on the Noires out of the box. That said I suspect you could peq the Noires to get some of it and perhaps more tellingly whilst I love detail which adds to the musical experience much of the extra I heard was at a level where it didn't bring anything to the table
They are an easier headphone to listen to without fatiguing than the Noires, not that the Aeon 2 Noire was bad.

Generally they provided more clarity but it wasn't always the case. In some cases there was a confusing presentation where a vocal on the Noires, I was impressed by because it was so clear, was somewhat obfuscated by Stealth. When it happened the Stealth really messed it up. On the other hand the word Cambric in Simon and Garfunkel Scarborough fair was clearly more clear on the Stealth than on the Noires (could equalisation close the gap?).

The base is so controlled I would describe it as almost being anal (this is a complement). The complainers are mad. To try out base I played AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kajagoogoo, Cassius, Abba Voulez Vous (the toms toms were really impressive). Quite a lot of electronic music and wasn't disappointed with any of it bass wise. You vill get precisely ze amount and type of base recorded and absolutely no extra. I think the people who complain about slam are all bonkers. How much do they need? Any more and in my view it would be entirely unrealistic. The Noires impressed me here too but I think the Stealth is more capable (its not a huge difference though). By and large I was very impressed with the base.

Most instruments sounded incredibly realistic to me, then again none sounded that unrealistic on the Noires. Piano was sublime. Harps were amazing.

The Stealth certainly mildly tamed harshness that one can hear with some vocalists (Duffy for example). I think it did this better than the Noires.

Soundstage was prob where I noticed the biggest difference out of the box

I would agree with the headphones.com review which said the following:

At first I was a bit thrown off by the Stealth’s presentation of space and stage because of how well separated all the images are in the mix. However, after spending more time with it and doing more comparisons, I find the Stealth to occasionally have a somewhat intimate presentation. In particular, it seems to have a unique range of image placement from near to far. Quite often I would hear vocal lines very close to me and intimate, while the rest of the mix would be farther away in the background for example. So this is an interesting depth quality that some may like but others may find a bit distracting. Additionally, the Stealth seems to have quite a good sense of depth presence, making it very easy to look forward into the various layers and instrument lines in the mix.

I do wonder if this is what caused the occasional lack of clarity in vocals on certain tracks. The sound stage definitely seemed to be wider than the Noires but then again when I had the Noires, occasionally I played with the headphone equalizer settings for creating greater space and it could occasionally be very effective. In some cases that actually produced a better effect than the Stealth presentation. I tried the same thing with the Stealth and it made things worse.

To me the Headfonia review which said the below was bang on the nail:

The Noire does have a slightly more rich and ‘fun’ overall sound compared to the more clinically-minded Stealth, but it does hang in there pretty well in terms of delivering an impressive performance. Sure, the Stealth does pip it in just about every category (barring comfort), but is it four times better than the Noire as the price might suggest? Not in a million years. Either the Stealth makes the Aeon 2 Noire feel like a stone-cold bargain, or the Aeon 2 Noire makes the Stealth feel like an expensive special performance edition of an already superb sports car that has some fancy badging and paint on the outside.

The one caveat from me is dont read too much into the "clinical comment". I would not describe the Stealth as being clinical. I did think the Noires were more fun. I enjoyed my time with them more plus to me they were more comfy. At no point with the Stealth did I think this is dull. Of course I want a hi fidelity experience and I do differentiate hi-fidelity from fun or good sound. I listen to music for enjoyment though so if I had to award a score to the Stealths I'd give them a 9.5 out of 10. They are the best headphones I've ever heard. The trouble is that I'd probably give the Noires a score only marginally lower but give them an extra 0.1 for enjoyment. I'd give them an extra 5 points for price though.

Ultimately the Stealth is going back. I'm lucky in that I can afford expensive headphones but I don't spend money because I can. I spend it to get enjoyment. The additional capabilities of the Stealth are simply not worth the £2,689 difference from the Aeon 2 Noire to me. This isn't a criticism of the Stealth (in my view they're wonderful) but rather a recognition of just how good the Aeon 2 Noires are (they're also wonderful). Perhaps a 21 year old or someone with golden ears would benefit more but at 54 even with relatively good hearing, the additional benefits of the Stealth are simply not enough for me. Disappointing and a hassle (as I need to return them) but I'm ordering up another pair of DCA Aeon 2 Noire's and am going to put my quest for end game to bed for the moment. The Stealths weak point is very definitely diminishing returns for price when compared with its cheaper sibling. I had to really concentrate to appreciate the additional capabilities of the Stealths. It was not night and day. 95% of the wow factor was given to me by the Noires.

This is obviously a personal opinion rather than an objectivist review. I would say that I had made up mind within 15 minutes and then stayed up all night listening to try and prove to myself that I hand't heard the right tracks. At no point did I feel the need to revise my opinion. The Noires instantly wowed me. The Stealth having heard the Noires couldn't convince me to justify the extra spend. There are many who will disagree with me and all enjoyment and happiness to them. If the Stealths make them happy then thats great. I did say they were the best headphones I'd ever heard.

 

[Doodski]

Hi, Well I sent the d90se and A90d back. Sure they were good and I thought I could hear marginally more detail from the d90se than from the E50 (though that was only from recent memory). Turns out I couldn't. Basically the objectivists are right. If you think you can hear improvement you probably can't!

So my new E50/L50 turned up (I had previously listened to the DCA Aeon 2 Noires on the E50/L50 stack and was totally happy with them). For £477 they are a bargain. Sure they might not look quite as sexy as the D90se/A90d combo but they sound so close as to make one question spending the extra £1000 to get the theoretical improvement.

The Stealths turned up yesterday. So I eagerly plugged them in and of course the L50 has no problem driving them whatsoever.

Are they better than the Aeon 2 Noires?

Yes I think so (again it was from recent memory so can't be 100% sure but I do tend to note things that stand out and remember them on specific tracks). There were several places where stuff stood out which I do not remember hearing on the Noires out of the box. That said I suspect you could peq the Noires to get some of it and perhaps more tellingly whilst I love detail which adds to the musical experience much of the extra I heard was at a level where it didn't bring anything to the table
They are an easier headphone to listen to without fatiguing than the Noires, not that the Aeon 2 Noire was bad.

Generally they provided more clarity but it wasn't always the case. In some cases there was a confusing presentation where a vocal on the Noires, I was impressed by because it was so clear, was somewhat obfuscated by Stealth. When it happened the Stealth really messed it up. On the other hand the word Cambric in Simon and Garfunkel Scarborough fair was clearly more clear on the Stealth than on the Noires (could equalisation close the gap?).

The base is so controlled I would describe it as almost being anal (this is a complement). The complainers are mad. To try out base I played AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kajagoogoo, Cassius, Abba Voulez Vous (the toms toms were really impressive). Quite a lot of electronic music and wasn't disappointed with any of it bass wise. You vill get precisely ze amount and type of base recorded and absolutely no extra. I think the people who complain about slam are all bonkers. How much do they need? Any more and in my view it would be entirely unrealistic. The Noires impressed me here too but I think the Stealth is more capable (its not a huge difference though). By and large I was very impressed with the base.

Most instruments sounded incredibly realistic to me, then again none sounded that unrealistic on the Noires. Piano was sublime. Harps were amazing.

The Stealth certainly mildly tamed harshness that one can hear with some vocalists (Duffy for example). I think it did this better than the Noires.

Soundstage was prob where I noticed the biggest difference out of the box

I would agree with the headphones.com review which said the following:

At first I was a bit thrown off by the Stealth’s presentation of space and stage because of how well separated all the images are in the mix. However, after spending more time with it and doing more comparisons, I find the Stealth to occasionally have a somewhat intimate presentation. In particular, it seems to have a unique range of image placement from near to far. Quite often I would hear vocal lines very close to me and intimate, while the rest of the mix would be farther away in the background for example. So this is an interesting depth quality that some may like but others may find a bit distracting. Additionally, the Stealth seems to have quite a good sense of depth presence, making it very easy to look forward into the various layers and instrument lines in the mix.

I do wonder if this is what caused the occasional lack of clarity in vocals on certain tracks. The sound stage definitely seemed to be wider than the Noires but then again when I had the Noires, occasionally I played with the headphone equalizer settings for creating greater space and it could occasionally be very effective. In some cases that actually produced a better effect than the Stealth presentation. I tried the same thing with the Stealth and it made things worse.

To me the Headfonia review which said the below was bang on the nail:

The Noire does have a slightly more rich and ‘fun’ overall sound compared to the more clinically-minded Stealth, but it does hang in there pretty well in terms of delivering an impressive performance. Sure, the Stealth does pip it in just about every category (barring comfort), but is it four times better than the Noire as the price might suggest? Not in a million years. Either the Stealth makes the Aeon 2 Noire feel like a stone-cold bargain, or the Aeon 2 Noire makes the Stealth feel like an expensive special performance edition of an already superb sports car that has some fancy badging and paint on the outside.

The one caveat from me is dont read too much into the "clinical comment". I would not describe the Stealth as being clinical. I did think the Noires were more fun. I enjoyed my time with them more plus to me they were more comfy. At no point with the Stealth did I think this is dull. Of course I want a hi fidelity experience and I do differentiate hi-fidelity from fun or good sound. I listen to music for enjoyment though so if I had to award a score to the Stealths I'd give them a 9.5 out of 10. They are the best headphones I've ever heard. The trouble is that I'd probably give the Noires a score only marginally lower but give them an extra 0.1 for enjoyment. I'd give them an extra 5 points for price though.

Ultimately the Stealth is going back. I'm lucky in that I can afford expensive headphones but I don't spend money because I can. I spend it to get enjoyment. The additional capabilities of the Stealth are simply not worth the £2,689 difference from the Aeon 2 Noire to me. This isn't a criticism of the Stealth (in my view they're wonderful) but rather a recognition of just how good the Aeon 2 Noires are (they're also wonderful). Perhaps a 21 year old or someone with golden ears would benefit more but at 54 even with relatively good hearing, the additional benefits of the Stealth are simply not enough for me. Disappointing and a hassle (as I need to return them) but I'm ordering up another pair of DCA Aeon 2 Noire's and am going to put my quest for end game to bed for the moment. The Stealths weak point is very definitely diminishing returns for price when compared with its cheaper sibling. I had to really concentrate to appreciate the additional capabilities of the Stealths. It was not night and day. 95% of the wow factor was given to me by the Noires.

This is obviously a personal opinion rather than an objectivist review. I would say that I had made up mind within 15 minutes and then stayed up all night listening to try and prove to myself that I hand't heard the right tracks. At no point did I feel the need to revise my opinion. The Noires instantly wowed me. The Stealth having heard the Noires couldn't convince me to justify the extra spend. There are many who will disagree with me and all enjoyment and happiness to them. If the Stealths make them happy then thats great. I did say they were the best headphones I'd ever heard.

Very interesting. For me that was a great read and conclusion because I like the price of the Aeon 2 Noire much more too. Now I hope the Schiit Magni Heresy headphone amplifier that I bought this morning can power them well. Thanks for the write up/review!

Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amp Reviews

This is a review, detailed measurements and comparison of Schiit Magni 3+ and Heresy Headphone Amplifiers. It was kindly sent to me by the company. They both cost US $99 plus shipping from Schiit. The Magni 3+ is a discrete amplifier implementation whereas the Heresy uses integrated circuits...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[nonnyno]

I'm glad I could be helpful. As I said, Dan Clark ought to be commended for what they've done.

I heard the Sennheiser hd820's and Beyer t1's recently too and they're nowhere near as good as either DCA headphone. I cant speak for the Focal Stellias but I've come to the conclusion that to justify a spend increase of the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stealths or the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stellias you have to be getting a smack you in the face wow factor somewhere. I was impressed by the sheer competence of the Stealth but 95% of the wow I had already experienced with the Noires which are also highly competent. I suspect I'd probably also be impressed by the Focal Stellias If I could find some to listen to, but probably not enough to justify the extra £1800 pounds. As a result I'll stick with the Noires which according to Oratory carry less deviation from the Harman curve than do the Stealths and which are highly equalisable and whose presentation I enjoyed more.

I can buy a lot of music for the price difference or indulge other sins.

I'm also pleased because whilst I don't place the same value on the Stealths as Amir. His reviews have proved to be utterly accurate in terms of competence of items he's reviewed. I'd be interested to see how he rates the noires. His review of the Topping E50/L50 were right too as was his review of the D90se and a90d. Again the only thing wrong for me was diminishing returns.

Its been a fun journey. Now if someone could produce a single small box with the DAC capabilites of the d90se, the amplification capabilities of the A90d or the l50 (the price tag of the E50/L50 combo) and a headphone with the stealth's capabilities and Noires presentation with the Noires price tag I'll be convinced that the time to jump in again has arrived. A man can dream :->

 

[Doodski]

I'm glad I could be helpful. As I said, Dan Clark ought to be commended for what they've done.

I heard the Sennheiser hd820's and Beyer t1's recently too and they're nowhere near as good as either DCA headphone. I cant speak for the Focal Stellias but I've come to the conclusion that to justify a spend increase of the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stealths or the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stellias you have to be getting a smack you in the face wow factor somewhere. I was impressed by the sheer competence of the Stealth but 95% of the wow I had already experienced with the Noires which are also highly competent. I suspect I'd probably also be impressed by the Focal Stellias If I could find some to listen to, but probably not enough to justify the extra £1800 pounds. As a result I'll stick with the Noires which according to Oratory carry less deviation from the Harman curve than do the Stealths and which are highly equalisable and whose presentation I enjoyed more.

I can buy a lot of music for the price difference or indulge other sins.

I'm also pleased because whilst I don't place the same value on the Stealths as Amir. His reviews have proved to be utterly accurate in terms of competence of items he's reviewed. I'd be interested to see how he rates the noires. His review of the Topping E50/L50 were right too as was his review of the D90se and a90d. Again the only thing wrong for me was diminishing returns.

Its been a fun journey. Now if someone could produce a single small box with the DAC capabilites of the d90se, the amplification capabilities of the A90d or the l50 (the price tag of the E50/L50 combo) and a headphone with the stealth's capabilities and Noires presentation with the Noires price tag I'll be convinced that the time to jump in again has arrived. A man can dream :->

I'll budget for and purchase the Aeon 2 Noire for my Christmas present. I'm excited. I use the Sennheiser HD 598SR right now and they sound OK with prodigious use of the EQ but it's near time to invest in something better because I use them for several or more hours per day and would really appreciate a better headphone. I'll keep the HD 598SR as a second set of cans for when peeps come over to watch me frag baddies on my pooder.

 

[majingotan]

I'm glad I could be helpful. As I said, Dan Clark ought to be commended for what they've done.

I heard the Sennheiser hd820's and Beyer t1's recently too and they're nowhere near as good as either DCA headphone. I cant speak for the Focal Stellias but I've come to the conclusion that to justify a spend increase of the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stealths or the amounts seen between the Noires and the Stellias you have to be getting a smack you in the face wow factor somewhere. I was impressed by the sheer competence of the Stealth but 95% of the wow I had already experienced with the Noires which are also highly competent. I suspect I'd probably also be impressed by the Focal Stellias If I could find some to listen to, but probably not enough to justify the extra £1800 pounds. As a result I'll stick with the Noires which according to Oratory carry less deviation from the Harman curve than do the Stealths and which are highly equalisable and whose presentation I enjoyed more.

I can buy a lot of music for the price difference or indulge other sins.

I'm also pleased because whilst I don't place the same value on the Stealths as Amir. His reviews have proved to be utterly accurate in terms of competence of items he's reviewed. I'd be interested to see how he rates the noires. His review of the Topping E50/L50 were right too as was his review of the D90se and a90d. Again the only thing wrong for me was diminishing returns.

Its been a fun journey. Now if someone could produce a single small box with the DAC capabilites of the d90se, the amplification capabilities of the A90d or the l50 (the price tag of the E50/L50 combo) and a headphone with the stealth's capabilities and Noires presentation with the Noires price tag I'll be convinced that the time to jump in again has arrived. A man can dream :->

Ironically, the Aeons (doesn't matter which version RT/X/2/Open/Closed/Noire) are the most engaging DCA headphones in their whole lineup. Also, to my subjective taste is that the Aeon X Open at $345 (if on sale heavily, and I haven't heard the Aeon 2 Closed and Noire) COMPLETELY BLOWS AWAY the Focal Clear OG (I'm thoroughly impressed with the Focal Utopia however)

 

[nonnyno]

I'll budget for and purchase the Aeon 2 Noire for my Christmas present. I'm excited. I use the Sennheiser HD 598SR right now and they sound OK with prodigious use of the EQ but it's near time to invest in something better because I use them for several or more hours per day and would really appreciate a better headphone. I'll keep the HD 598SR as a second set of cans for when peeps come over to watch me frag baddies on my pooder.

I will of course let you know what I think of the Aeon 2 Noires again when the new ones arrive given that I returned the originals I heard to get the Stealth. It'll be a bit sad if I hear them and go meh wheres the wow having heard the Stealths (I'll laugh at myself then). I am slightly worried that several people who've had the stealth s said they're a bit weird. You're aware they're very good but they don't jump out at you but then when you listen to something else you suddenly feel somethings missing but cant put your finger on it.

I do know one thing for certain though. There was always this niggle for me whilst listening to them that these thngs cost £3,555 and I'm not hearing £2,600 of extra from my point of view. To give a context generally I rate food by value. I don't care what it costs, but if I walk out of a restaurant feeling my word that was amazing, the food, the experience etc. then it really was good. I have had 5 pound meals where I've had that feeling and I've had £500 pound meals where I've had that feeling. You can always find something to complain about a meal mentally (I very rarely complain in restaurants as most try really hard) regardless of price, but the question is ... was the whole expeirnece good enough that you overlook the tiniest downsides. Its obviously relative because a £500 meal needs to deliver to higher standards across the board to avoid you feeling could have done something better. A good experience creates good memories. I've had £500 meals where I've walked out thinking yeah it was good but its a shame that they didn't do x or y was slightly chewey or or.

With the Stealths I had that same impression. Yeah this really is of a incredibly high standard but there something that just isn't wowing me.

I would say to you though, please please please try to audition Noire's before you take my word for it. My ears aren't your ears. My values aren't your values and I had to start with the Noire's to see if I even liked the Dan Clark house sound because the Aeon RT's weren't available in the UK.

 

[nonnyno]

Ironically, the Aeons (doesn't matter which version RT/X/2/Open/Closed/Noire) are the most engaging DCA headphones in their whole lineup. Also, to my subjective taste is that the Aeon X Open at $345 (if on sale heavily, and I haven't heard the Aeon 2 Closed and Noire) COMPLETELY BLOWS AWAY the Focal Clear OG (I'm thoroughly impressed with the Focal Utopia however)

Interesting to see your comments. I can believe it. My only experience with Focals was in a local Richer Sounds store (UK Hifi chain store catering to more mainstream audio visual tastes - a chain with excellent service to be sure but generally not the higher end or esoteric stuff). I scuttled away to a listening room for an enjoyable 2 hours (albeit with a rotten selection of music - theirs). The amplifier I had access to in the room was some relatively nasty Marantz AV thing with an amplifier which I suspect smsl, Topping or Sabaj could have walked all over with a $50 device. Not exactly a like for like comparison with sitting at home with my E50/L50 stack and the DCA's. It was an impromptu audition but as I hadn't heard any other headphones recently, I wanted to audition a few just to see if I could equate what I heard with any reviews I'd read and to see whether I even liked the house sound or thought they bettered the Beyer DT770's (HC equalized or unequalised) I had at home by a margin.

What follows below is my reaction to the headphones rather than a review and I apologize for all the impressions given in these threads to ASR as I realize its all subjective and not at all in the spirit of the site. Ultimately though I see the measurements and reviews as a means to an end. I have to spring hard cash for a headphone and If I stick it on my head and think meh I'm not going to buy it - then I'm not going to part with cash regardless of the reviews. Unless I've misunderstood Amirs philosophy I think that falls within his parameters. Use the reviews to identify quality gear which can sound great either eq'd or uneq'd and which ideally can stand considerable eq'ing without falling to pieces. Avoid total snake oil. Don't bluff yourself. Buy according to your criteria. My criteria are sound first, comfort second, looks third. That said if the item looks like the back end of a bus to me then Its not going on my desk. I have to look at it all day and ultimately, if it doesnt feng my shui I'm not paying for it. I do want hi-fidelity in its classic sense as far as possible but I also want to enjoy life. Whilst I do consider myself to be an objectivist, ultimately, like it or not, we all end up as subjectivists in the final decison process.

The headphones listened to were the HD820's, the Sundaras, the Focal Elegias and Beyer T1's. Playing with EQ was out of the question.

• There is no doubt that the HD820's were pretty good. I liked the way they looked too and they were comfortable - really comfortable. I still find them a little flat, much as I did my old Sennheiser HD800's (equalised or unequalised) but they were good. A little sibilant to my ears. Would love to try them on the E50/L50. I actually think Sennheiser have been quite smart with their price point too. Its a lot but half the DCA Stealths and Empyrean's and even a considerable wedge cheaper than the Focal Stellias. They cannot be easily eliminated if you don't like the sound but want something closed at the higher end. Their sound stage was wide.
• The Sundaras I thought needed a better amp and might just buy some to try (they're only £299) at home and see how they sing with a decent DAC and amplifier as with a reversion to the Noires it leaves a goodly wodge of cash free and would give me an open back to listen to when I want the change, in the odd moment where its feasible for me to do so. I thought they were very good and the review impressions I'd read were pretty accurate.
• The T1's were at best patchy. On some things they sounded awesomely sweet though never quite matched any of the others. On some tracks I felt they justified the price and on others I just felt like the phones were playing in a bucket - no other way to describe it.
• The Elegias looked awesome and were comfy but were all over the place. I didn't find them offensive. On some tracks they were just amazing. I mean really really staggeringly good and on others, it was a case of "what in gods name went wrong there!!! Sorry is this the same headphone I heard a moment ago". I did hear a sort of metallic overtone to many tracks but that disappeared completely on the ones which blew me away.
• The ones that felt the least robust inc construction were the T1's and the Sundaras. Not sure about real world reliability though as looks can be deceiving

Clearly also the Sundaras were the odd man out as they were open back. I really really need closed backs, but wanted to hear them anyway as I'd heard so many good things about them. If i wanted to buy a set of open backs (Just so I had a pair) and could experience the closed back/open back difference they struck me as a quality equalisable choice.

For my ears I'd have to have ranked them

• HD820's/Sundaras joint equal for some things I preferred the presentation of the 820's and for some the Sundaras. With the music available and in the environment I was in, I really didn't hear the things the HD820's cause people to complain about. Again I found myself with the occasional thought "are they £1,800 good?" but that was far less so than I felt with the Stealths.
• Elegias (intrigued me enough to make me want to hear other Focals)
• Beyer last. (If I had to find a description it would just be its old and needs a serious update). It was very comfortable though.

I would love to hear the Focal Celestee, Clears, Stellias and Empyreans but they would have to be seriously amazing to blow away the Noires or the Stealths. The noires ahve killed my need for an upgrade right now. Hearing the Focals would be more for interest.

 

[Snoopy]

• Elegias (intrigued me enough to make me want to hear other Focals).

I would love to hear the Focal Celestee, Clears, Stellias and Empyreans but they would have to be seriously amazing to blow away the Noires or the Stealths. The noires ahve killed my need for an upgrade right now. Hearing the Focals would be more for interest.

I got the noire and the elegia (with Dekonis sheepskin stellia Pads). And I like them both with amirms EQ settings. But the noire are way more comfortable. And I can't imagine I will ever buy a headphone again with that traditional headband style.

I feel the same way about all the TOTL headphones. I got the noire for 777€ (660 GBP) during black Friday.

For a TOTL headphone I would have to add another 2000-2300€.. that headphone would have to be seriously more impressive in every way to justify that.

 

[Rottmannash]

Hi, Well I sent the d90se and A90d back. Sure they were good and I thought I could hear marginally more detail from the d90se than from the E50 (though that was only from recent memory). Turns out I couldn't. Basically the objectivists are right. If you think you can hear improvement you probably can't!

So my new E50/L50 turned up (I had previously listened to the DCA Aeon 2 Noires on the E50/L50 stack and was totally happy with them). For £477 they are a bargain. Sure they might not look quite as sexy as the D90se/A90d combo but they sound so close as to make one question spending the extra £1000 to get the theoretical improvement.

The Stealths turned up yesterday. So I eagerly plugged them in and of course the L50 has no problem driving them whatsoever.

Are they better than the Aeon 2 Noires?

Yes I think so (again it was from recent memory so can't be 100% sure but I do tend to note things that stand out and remember them on specific tracks). There were several places where stuff stood out which I do not remember hearing on the Noires out of the box. That said I suspect you could peq the Noires to get some of it and perhaps more tellingly whilst I love detail which adds to the musical experience much of the extra I heard was at a level where it didn't bring anything to the table
They are an easier headphone to listen to without fatiguing than the Noires, not that the Aeon 2 Noire was bad.

Generally they provided more clarity but it wasn't always the case. In some cases there was a confusing presentation where a vocal on the Noires, I was impressed by because it was so clear, was somewhat obfuscated by Stealth. When it happened the Stealth really messed it up. On the other hand the word Cambric in Simon and Garfunkel Scarborough fair was clearly more clear on the Stealth than on the Noires (could equalisation close the gap?).

The base is so controlled I would describe it as almost being anal (this is a complement). The complainers are mad. To try out base I played AC/DC, Aerosmith, Kajagoogoo, Cassius, Abba Voulez Vous (the toms toms were really impressive). Quite a lot of electronic music and wasn't disappointed with any of it bass wise. You vill get precisely ze amount and type of base recorded and absolutely no extra. I think the people who complain about slam are all bonkers. How much do they need? Any more and in my view it would be entirely unrealistic. The Noires impressed me here too but I think the Stealth is more capable (its not a huge difference though). By and large I was very impressed with the base.

Most instruments sounded incredibly realistic to me, then again none sounded that unrealistic on the Noires. Piano was sublime. Harps were amazing.

The Stealth certainly mildly tamed harshness that one can hear with some vocalists (Duffy for example). I think it did this better than the Noires.

Soundstage was prob where I noticed the biggest difference out of the box

I would agree with the headphones.com review which said the following:

At first I was a bit thrown off by the Stealth’s presentation of space and stage because of how well separated all the images are in the mix. However, after spending more time with it and doing more comparisons, I find the Stealth to occasionally have a somewhat intimate presentation. In particular, it seems to have a unique range of image placement from near to far. Quite often I would hear vocal lines very close to me and intimate, while the rest of the mix would be farther away in the background for example. So this is an interesting depth quality that some may like but others may find a bit distracting. Additionally, the Stealth seems to have quite a good sense of depth presence, making it very easy to look forward into the various layers and instrument lines in the mix.

I do wonder if this is what caused the occasional lack of clarity in vocals on certain tracks. The sound stage definitely seemed to be wider than the Noires but then again when I had the Noires, occasionally I played with the headphone equalizer settings for creating greater space and it could occasionally be very effective. In some cases that actually produced a better effect than the Stealth presentation. I tried the same thing with the Stealth and it made things worse.

To me the Headfonia review which said the below was bang on the nail:

The Noire does have a slightly more rich and ‘fun’ overall sound compared to the more clinically-minded Stealth, but it does hang in there pretty well in terms of delivering an impressive performance. Sure, the Stealth does pip it in just about every category (barring comfort), but is it four times better than the Noire as the price might suggest? Not in a million years. Either the Stealth makes the Aeon 2 Noire feel like a stone-cold bargain, or the Aeon 2 Noire makes the Stealth feel like an expensive special performance edition of an already superb sports car that has some fancy badging and paint on the outside.

The one caveat from me is dont read too much into the "clinical comment". I would not describe the Stealth as being clinical. I did think the Noires were more fun. I enjoyed my time with them more plus to me they were more comfy. At no point with the Stealth did I think this is dull. Of course I want a hi fidelity experience and I do differentiate hi-fidelity from fun or good sound. I listen to music for enjoyment though so if I had to award a score to the Stealths I'd give them a 9.5 out of 10. They are the best headphones I've ever heard. The trouble is that I'd probably give the Noires a score only marginally lower but give them an extra 0.1 for enjoyment. I'd give them an extra 5 points for price though.

Ultimately the Stealth is going back. I'm lucky in that I can afford expensive headphones but I don't spend money because I can. I spend it to get enjoyment. The additional capabilities of the Stealth are simply not worth the £2,689 difference from the Aeon 2 Noire to me. This isn't a criticism of the Stealth (in my view they're wonderful) but rather a recognition of just how good the Aeon 2 Noires are (they're also wonderful). Perhaps a 21 year old or someone with golden ears would benefit more but at 54 even with relatively good hearing, the additional benefits of the Stealth are simply not enough for me. Disappointing and a hassle (as I need to return them) but I'm ordering up another pair of DCA Aeon 2 Noire's and am going to put my quest for end game to bed for the moment. The Stealths weak point is very definitely diminishing returns for price when compared with its cheaper sibling. I had to really concentrate to appreciate the additional capabilities of the Stealths. It was not night and day. 95% of the wow factor was given to me by the Noires.

This is obviously a personal opinion rather than an objectivist review. I would say that I had made up mind within 15 minutes and then stayed up all night listening to try and prove to myself that I hand't heard the right tracks. At no point did I feel the need to revise my opinion. The Noires instantly wowed me. The Stealth having heard the Noires couldn't convince me to justify the extra spend. There are many who will disagree with me and all enjoyment and happiness to them. If the Stealths make them happy then thats great. I did say they were the best headphones I'd ever heard.

It's a shame you didn't listen to the D90SE/A90D in XLR/balanced mode...may have been just what you were expecting, especially on the 5V setting on the SE.

 

[FrST]

Hi all,

I'm going nuts.

I decided to buy a topping a90d and D90se. The A90d turned up. The d90se arrives tomorrow. I decided to try an old smsl m500 with it using balanced interconnection. Plugged everything in and it worked. I'm waiting for the Dan Clark Stealths to arrive as well so plugged in a set of beyer dt770's single ended. I've got windows volume turned up to full. Jriver turned up to full. The smsl dac volume turned up to 40 (full). I'm having to turn the a90d up to 50 (50% volume) to get only moderate volume. Its set to high gain. What have I done wrong. The topping e50/l50 combo I tried got really loud at less than a half of this.

Any ideas. No options I choose are fixing this. The volume levels are much lower than the smsl can turn out on its own internal amp with the volume control set at much lower levels.
I've clearly missed something.

Any ideas?

My solution posted (wrongly) here

I had the same issue with my topping A90d. Your description sounds like what I experienced. The topping A90d has five different volume curve settings which can be changed by pressing B on the remote control. Full volume is only feasible with curve setting 1. See attached images.

Sorry for posting this twice on ASR.

 

[FrST]

The volume curve functionality was added with firmware version V2.3 (see here). It's actually quite nice when knowing about it! I also appreciate the functionality to change the gain without the remote. Didn't know that either ;-) all functions can be operated without the remote now. Finally, all this might not be related with the actual topic of this thread but has definitely confused myself quite a bit!