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Today is exactly 40th anniversary of CD in EU/US. Is that a reason to celebrate? How many have you collected? And how do you store your treasures?

DAC

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Actually, Philips' introduction of the Compact Disc system was on 8 March 1979. So that would make this Wednesday the 44th anniversary ;)

 
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Keith_W

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View attachment 269509I have all of them in our living room :)

I considerably more albums as downloads on my server .
( I have the dvd’s Blue rays in our HT room)

I can’t play them without ripping anymore as I discovered that my MeridianG98DH is broken otherwise I used that to play discs directly.

IKEA Billy! I noticed you are in Sweden, so I am guessing you have IKEA's everywhere :) I have exactly the same bookshelves in my house in the same finish. You also have a taste for science fiction and horror I see :)
 

Zgrado1970

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I went to college in the late 80s, and I remember the big deal when a few friends added cd players to dorm room stereos. I also remember making “clean” mixtapes with 2 players plugged into a mini mixing board with cross fade - the pre-streaming version of gapless playback. My nostalgia is all about that clean/quiet sound. The thrill was getting a new CD, popping it in the player, hearing the little motor hum of the drive mechanism, and then the music just comes at you. The thrill was usually heightened because you were wound up after trying to remove shrink wrap plastic and other packaging.

On the downside, jewel cases were terrible for cleaning stems and seeds.
 

restorer-john

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Actually, Philips' introduction of the Compact Disc system was on 8 March 1979. So that would make this Wednesday the 44th anniversary ;)


Hardly. Their system was not remotely ready for prime time in any way.

Philips love to re-write the narrative to suit themselves. Their 'system' didn't work, was grossly inadequate and had no hope of commercialization. In fact, even after all the help from the Japanese, they still couldn't bring a product to market that hit the working group's standards. So much so, the world wide release of the actual compact disc system was delayed by SIX months to enable philips to get their house in order.

Sony released the CDP-101 in October 1982. Philips had nothing to sell until March 1983. Japanese manufacturers had 1st gen machines being peddled to OEMs while Philips screwed around trying to get even one machine capable of working enough to actually sell.

Philips let the entire side down. They were an embarrasment from day one and Sony ( and the other CD working group members) should have cut them loose in 1978.
 

DAC

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Hardly. Their system was not remotely ready for prime time in any way.

Philips love to re-write the narrative to suit themselves. Their 'system' didn't work, was grossly inadequate and had no hope of commercialization. In fact, even after all the help from the Japanese, they still couldn't bring a product to market that hit the working group's standards. So much so, the world wide release of the actual compact disc system was delayed by SIX months to enable philips to get their house in order.

Sony released the CDP-101 in October 1982. Philips had nothingto sell until March 1983.

While it is true that Sony released the first commercial compact disc player, the CDP-101, in October 1982, it was Philips who was in the lead in the development of the compact disc. Philips played a pivotal role in the development of the compact disc technology. They collaborated with Sony to create the standard for the compact disc in 1980 but it was Philips that had been working on digital audio disc technology since the 1970s, and had already produced a prototype in 1979.

While there were some technical issues with the initial prototypes, Philips and Sony worked together to resolve these issues and bring the technology to market. Philips also contributed significantly to the development of the compact disc format, including the decision to use a diameter of 120mm and the use of a 16-bit digital audio format.

While it is true that Philips faced some challenges in bringing their product to market, they ultimately succeeded and released their first compact disc player, the CD100, in March 1983, just a few months after Sony's release. In fact, Philips went on to become one of the leading manufacturers of compact disc players and discs, with a market share of around 20% by the late 1980s.

Overall, while Sony may have been the first to release a commercial compact disc player, Philips played a crucial role in the development of the technology and was certainly a major player in the market.
 

Adi777

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Anyway, no matter what medium, the most important thing is music. Music was, is and will be. Do I listen to computer Edifiers, will I listen to JBL M2 or loudspeakers in the listening room. Music first :D
 

restorer-john

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While it is true that Sony released the first commercial compact disc player, the CDP-101, in October 1982, it was Philips who was in the lead in the development of the compact disc. Philips played a pivotal role in the development of the compact disc technology. They collaborated with Sony to create the standard for the compact disc in 1980 but it was Philips that had been working on digital audio disc technology since the 1970s, and had already produced a prototype in 1979.

While there were some technical issues with the initial prototypes, Philips and Sony worked together to resolve these issues and bring the technology to market. Philips also contributed significantly to the development of the compact disc format, including the decision to use a diameter of 120mm and the use of a 16-bit digital audio format.

While it is true that Philips faced some challenges in bringing their product to market, they ultimately succeeded and released their first compact disc player, the CD100, in March 1983, just a few months after Sony's release. In fact, Philips went on to become one of the leading manufacturers of compact disc players and discs, with a market share of around 20% by the late 1980s.

Overall, while Sony may have been the first to release a commercial compact disc player, Philips played a crucial role in the development of the technology and was certainly a major player in the market.

Look, you have a great website and clearly have a lot invested in the entire Philips is the 'king' of CD etc. But the truth is quite different and not pumped full of BS.

I deal in facts.

Philips fell down in many ways. They couldn't even produce a 16 bit D/A converter. Their 14 bit TDA-1540D (ceramic pack) was all they could do. It was already committed to silicon and they had no place to go. 16 bit requirement shocked them. So, along comes 'over sampling' to dig them out of the hell-hole of THD they had dug themselves into. Sony had 16 bit D/As for several years and the CX-20017 blew the 1540 (even with OS) clean out fo the water. Look at low level THD in a Philips 1540 vs and CDP-101. Not even close. I have them all, in my collection. Take a Philips 1st gen anything and compare it.

A CDP-101 has low level THD numbers nearly 10 times better than anything Philips produced in a player for nearly 3 years afterwards. It's only when the TDA-1541 (selected versions) came along that their D/As became competitive. By then, the mainstream had already moved on from 16 bit (PCM-56) to 18bit (PCM-58) and PCM-63 etc with 8x OS.
 
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restorer-john

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I thought 16 bit was due to Sony? Philips wanted to run with 14 bit?

Philips only ever wanted incremental improvements. No massive game changers that would wreck their income stream. Typical, and a playbook they had used for ever.

Thank goodness for Sony and the CD working group for pushing for SOTA aspirational goals as they won and re-scaled the narrative*.

*(I hate that word)
 

DAC

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Ultimately, it's not a matter of Philips vs Sony, but rather a recognition that both companies played important roles in the development of the compact disc technology, and that their contributions were essential to the success of the format.
 

Mnyb

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IKEA Billy! I noticed you are in Sweden, so I am guessing you have IKEA's everywhere :) I have exactly the same bookshelves in my house in the same finish. You also have a taste for science fiction and horror I see :)
I tried to mix it up with different kind of interesting furniture, new and old . But the billy bookcase series is so versatile and comes in some many variations and colours and being cheap at the same time so it’s kinda unavoidable unless you hire carpenters to build something bespoke for you or get something 10 times more expensive.
 

restorer-john

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Ultimately, it's not a matter of Philips vs Sony, but rather a recognition that both companies played important roles in the development of the compact disc technology, and that their contributions were essential to the success of the format.

Yes, that is true. :)

Here is a transcript/excerpt you may not have read, of an interview with Heitaro Nakajima (of Sony) regarding the joint work with Philips:

Can you outline the joint work?

Nakajima:

We began a series of regular meetings, once every three months. For the first one we all went to Eindhoven, to Philips' headquarters. Two months later they came here to Japan. One thing can be said about the process of development in digital, and similarly analog: it's very much a step-by-step process. One person thinks, "This is the way to do it." Then somebody improves on that, and somebody else then improves on that. This was the process that was taking place. We realized that if we didn't draw the line somewhere and say, "This is where we stop," we would not achieve a standard. That was when we decided on a joint 50/50 contribution. I think on both sides the feeling was, "Why on earth have we signed to a 50/50 cooperation agreement?" I think Philips felt that as well. There was a certain amount of anger within Sony about that. The reason, obviously, was that each side felt it was ahead in technological development.

Aspray:

What was the division of labor on the development?

Nakajima:

The process was basically one of constant discussion and exchange of views. The people involved in various aspects of development would all bring their ideas to the table, and then the discussions would begin. Because I don't speak English very much, I tended to take a back seat, listen very carefully to what was going on, and just let the experts on each different technology go to work, as it were. Not only between Philips and Sony as such, but also between the hardware and software people within each organization, i.e. between Polygram and Philips, and between Sony and CBS-Sony. There was also argument concerning aspects of the optical pickup and the optical pickup in relation to the disc. Obviously there was a lot of discussion, and it was hard going at times. But I'm very happy with the system decided upon, and I feel we were able to reach an agreement on a very good system.
 

Mart68

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Philips only ever wanted incremental improvements. No massive game changers that would wreck their income stream. Typical, and a playbook they had used for ever.
my uncle knew one of the Philips engineers, retired, who was his neighbour in Spain. He claimed that Philips had invented flat screen plasma TV in the early 1980s but sat on it since the market for CRT wasn't fully saturated. No idea if that is true or not.

I also read that the record companies were quite resistant to the CD as they thought it would be giving away their master tapes. Not something they were at all concerned about with compact cassette and vinyl ofc.
 

F1308

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40 years, you said ?

I thought it was last week...

I have around 2500.

Most turned into FLAC.

And I keep a SACD player, but rests unpowered, although undasted.

For the times, they are a-changin'.
 
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Suffolkhifinut

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Hardly. Their system was not remotely ready for prime time in any way.

Philips love to re-write the narrative to suit themselves. Their 'system' didn't work, was grossly inadequate and had no hope of commercialization. In fact, even after all the help from the Japanese, they still couldn't bring a product to market that hit the working group's standards. So much so, the world wide release of the actual compact disc system was delayed by SIX months to enable philips to get their house in order.

Sony released the CDP-101 in October 1982. Philips had nothing to sell until March 1983. Japanese manufacturers had 1st gen machines being peddled to OEMs while Philips screwed around trying to get even one machine capable of working enough to actually sell.

Philips let the entire side down. They were an embarrasment from day one and Sony ( and the other CD working group members) should have cut them loose in 1978.
If my memory isn’t too hazy, think Phillips needed Sony’s technology to increase the bit count from 14 to 16. Phillips also had set the maximum play time at 1 hour and the Chairman of Sony was having none of that. He was a great fan of Beethoven and Beethoven’s ninth needed a minimum play time of 74 minutes, and Phillips complied with his wishes.
My first CD player was a small Toshiba, mains powered couldn’t be played on the move sounded pretty good. Listening to a playlist of my ripped CDs, still have most of them play them most days. Went back to vinyl for a while now consider it a waste of money, several grand not doing much.
 

restorer-john

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my uncle knew one of the Philips engineers, retired, who was his neighbour in Spain. He claimed that Philips had invented flat screen plasma TV in the early 1980s but sat on it since the market for CRT wasn't fully saturated. No idea if that is true or not.

I also read that the record companies were quite resistant to the CD as they thought it would be giving away their master tapes. Not something they were at all concerned about with compact cassette and vinyl ofc.

Philips were one of the main companies involved in the Phoebus cartel...


I actually have some imagery showing flat screen products/techology from the very early 1970s. Whether it was buried for commercial or practical reasons, I have no idea.
 

DAC

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Nice, this is a report on the s
Yes, that is true. :)

Here is a transcript/excerpt you may not have read, of an interview with Heitaro Nakajima (of Sony) regarding the joint work with Philips:

Can you outline the joint work?

Nakajima:

We began a series of regular meetings, once every three months. For the first one we all went to Eindhoven, to Philips' headquarters. Two months later they came here to Japan. One thing can be said about the process of development in digital, and similarly analog: it's very much a step-by-step process. One person thinks, "This is the way to do it." Then somebody improves on that, and somebody else then improves on that. This was the process that was taking place. We realized that if we didn't draw the line somewhere and say, "This is where we stop," we would not achieve a standard. That was when we decided on a joint 50/50 contribution. I think on both sides the feeling was, "Why on earth have we signed to a 50/50 cooperation agreement?" I think Philips felt that as well. There was a certain amount of anger within Sony about that. The reason, obviously, was that each side felt it was ahead in technological development.

Aspray:

What was the division of labor on the development?

Nakajima:

The process was basically one of constant discussion and exchange of views. The people involved in various aspects of development would all bring their ideas to the table, and then the discussions would begin. Because I don't speak English very much, I tended to take a back seat, listen very carefully to what was going on, and just let the experts on each different technology go to work, as it were. Not only between Philips and Sony as such, but also between the hardware and software people within each organization, i.e. between Polygram and Philips, and between Sony and CBS-Sony. There was also argument concerning aspects of the optical pickup and the optical pickup in relation to the disc. Obviously there was a lot of discussion, and it was hard going at times. But I'm very happy with the system decided upon, and I feel we were able to reach an agreement on a very good system.
Yes, those meetings were a struggle. I spoke to Hans Mons and Kees Schouhamer Immink about these meetings.

The Japanese were dominant on audio in the 70s/80s. Philips knew they had a good basis for a digital audio carrier and wanted to avoid debacles like with the VLP and video2000. They needed a good partner to make the compact disc system a global standard, so they looked for a suitable partner in Japan. Eventually -just before Philips wanted to travel back to the Netherlands empty-handed- Sony called that they wanted to join in.

Perhaps also good to see how Sony tried to gain control. The story of the diameter of the compact disc. Initially, Philips had set the diameter at 11.5cm (this size corresponded to the diagonal length of a compact cassette). Sony wanted to move to 12cm at the last minute, in order to fit more playing time on the CD that way. Immink indicated that increasing playing time was nonsense. Philips was already in the starting blocks with Polygram to produce CDs. The change in the dimensions of the compact disc set Philips back.

So it was a game of give and take.

In the end, you could say that Sony played a big role in the digital part (error correction, d/a conversion) and that Philips had the lead in the optical.

Perhaps of interest to you: a report of the meetings by Francois Dierckx. At the time head of Audio at Philips and gives a detailed account of the 6 meetings here:

Here is an article about the 6 meetings, when they took place and what was discussed in them:

All in all, I think this was a tremendously great time. :)
 

Ricardus

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I have about 1000, and I celebrated their 40th anniversary by buying another. Protocol V by Simon Phillips.
 

Ricardus

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Follow up question.

Who can still play a CD and what equipment would you use if Rip Van Winkle shows up at the door with some CDs he would like to share?
I have a bunch of Sony transports that I have kept over the years. Two are CD only, one is CD/DVD, and one is a BluRay player. They all work fine, and I still have the remotes.
 

dadregga

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I don’t have an intel base computer but a Mac. So I am not sure these will work?

I heard there was a company that used to do it for you for a very modest fee?
It will work just fine on a Mac, Intel or not.
 
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