The online coffee/espresso culture mirrors the subjectivist audio crowd.

[thecheapseats]

without coffee, there is no life...

...A good Coffee grinder, that will not heat (cook) the beans during the grinding process...

yep - that ^^^ is singularly critical... ya don't want to trash/heat the oils in the bean - it ruins the crema yield...

...the best sub $500.oo for those barista with a Science bent and willing to experiment is the Gaggia Classica, around $450.oo. Well made and customizable ( DIY )...
Electronic scale: Around $50.oo.

somehow - I've managed to survive with a gaggia that I've modified and hot-rodded to perform well - not hard to do and well worth the effort... there are lots of guides online for tweaking them...

 

[Keith_W]

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Give the man a break, he's already high on coffee. If you play him at 1.5x speed he sounds even higher on coffee.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Excerpt from one of my former blogs concerning culture and lifestyle:

"...and the espresso today not from the Italian, but freshly roasted and spiced by coffee cooks from Eritrea.

Coffee is a delicacy for the Eritreans, and being invited for a coffee 'bun' is a very special honor and a sign of friendship. The incense burner is part of such a coffee ceremony. A few crumbs of incense resin are lit on a piece of charcoal and a wonderfully pleasant fragrance wafts around the nose."

 

[dfuller]

So... coffee is my hobby. Audio is work.

I currently have a Rancilio Silvia Pro (that I modded to use a rotary pump instead of a vibration pump, for noise reasons) and a Eureka Atom 75 for my espresso setup, and a Fellow Ode and a Hario V60 for brewing filter. I also bought a moccamaster one cup for work where I use a Kingrinder hand grinder.

In my experience, grinder matters more than machine... to a point. Which is to say, once the machine delivers water at a predictable temperature, and at the correct range of pressure (for espresso machines), the way the beans are ground will have a much larger effect on how the coffee tastes. But it turns out "what is good" is intensely difficult to characterize.

Espresso is wildly complex because of the pressure. Filter coffee... well, there's a book about that written by a guy named Jonathan Gagne, an astrophysicist and coffee geek.

 

[r042wal]

So... coffee is my hobby. Audio is work.

@dfuller , I currently have a Rancilio Silvia Pro (that I modded to use a rotary pump instead of a vibration pump, for noise reasons) and a Eureka Atom 75 for my espresso setup, and a Fellow Ode and a Hario V60 for brewing filter. I also bought a moccamaster one cup for work where I use a Kingrinder hand grinder.

In my experience, grinder matters more than machine... to a point. Which is to say, once the machine delivers water at a predictable temperature, and at the correct range of pressure (for espresso machines), the way the beans are ground will have a much larger effect on how the coffee tastes. But it turns out "what is good" is intensely difficult to characterize.

Espresso is wildly complex because of the pressure. Filter coffee... well, there's a book about that written by a guy named Jonathan Gagne, an astrophysicist and coffee geek.

I have a Rancilio Silvia, not the Pro. I'm wondering if the rotary pump you used would fit in my machine? There seems to be a fair amount of room where the current pump is. Could you send me a link to what you used? Thanks !

 

[Waxx]

Excerpt from one of my former blogs concerning culture and lifestyle:

View attachment 286076

"...and the espresso today not from the Italian, but freshly roasted and spiced by coffee cooks from Eritrea.

Coffee is a delicacy for the Eritreans, and being invited for a coffee 'bun' is a very special honor and a sign of friendship. The incense burner is part of such a coffee ceremony. A few crumbs of incense resin are lit on a piece of charcoal and a wonderfully pleasant fragrance wafts around the nose."

Coffee actually comes from the Ethiopian highlands, where it's a native plant an certainly cultivated and used to make drinks since at least the 12th century AC (and probally a few centuries before) in the region of Harar. It spread fast, and Eritria (also a part of the old Ethiopian/Axumite culture at that time) was probally also very early in the drinking of coffee. And from there it spread fast trough the Arab world (first Yemen) and from there to the rest of the world.

I've never been to East Africa, but i've been in Yemen and Oman, and the coffee that they drink there is another level, that no barista here can reach i have to say (and i know quiet a few "very good on world scale" barista's...). It may have been the beans, setting, their ritual and the snacks they serve with it, but it was something special. That coffee is made totally different, cooked in ceramic cans afterh the beans are stamped to powder in a mortar made of bronze and drinking it is a whole ritual you need to follow.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Der Kaffee, den sie dort trinken, ist ein ganz anderes Niveau, das kein Barista hier erreichen kann, muss ich sagen (und ich kenne ein paar „sehr gute“ Baristas im Weltmaßstab ...). ICH

Agrees with my experience!

By the way, I was surprised to be served very good coffee in Japan as well. Naively, I could not really imagine that before, because I saw the green tea and the tea ceremony rather in the context of Japan.

 

[robwpdx]

So, lately I've been venturing into the world of espresso, and I see no reason to overspend, much like how I approach my hifi hobby.

As any interest takes hold, I usually check out youtube to gain some insight into the whole thing, but I'm noticing a trend that leaves me frustrated.

Ask any espresso snob on social media, and you'll get the same "you need to spend at least $200 on a grinder" or "Any espresso machine under $1000 is garbage". Oh, don't forget to spend $150 on a fancy brass and stainless tamper when your included plastic tamper $1.50 does the EXACT same thing with NO ACTUAL BENEFIT.

So far, I've got a Delonghi Stilosa, a cheap-o conical burr hand grinder, and coffee. I'm still trying to get the crema to be more substantial like those nespresso's, but I don't want to go down that wasteful route. I've read a lot of it comes down to a good espresso roasted bean and a nice fine grind.

What are your thoughts on the snobbery? Have you noticed it?

Are you into espresso? What gear have you gotten? Thoughts on the fully automatic units?

Of course! I'm on the West Coast of the USA where a lot of coffee history started in the 1970s. I have many friends in the coffee business. There are known flavor determinants - what we might be able to measure if we had an Audio Precision for coffee.

The known flavor factors are coffee berries and handling at the farm which vary. Shipment varies. The roasting varies a lot. The time between roasting, grinding/control of grinding, and control of brewing/espresso steam pressing vary. There are difference between professional espresso makers with independently controlled heating reservoirs, you can get that in some of the more expensive home espresso makers.

One of our successful coffee companies trained a generation of baristas on professional machines with a very repeatable "Stumptown method."

What coffee has going for it economically is that it is a drug. So all kinds of mysticism and mystic machinery to fetishize it has a market.

The auditory cortex is trained from birth. There is a good argument that the olfactory and taste receptors and brain processing is more genetically determined.

People have all kinds of weird hobbies they spend time and money on. Personally I don't believe it is my business to worry about what other people do with their time and money within wide societal boundaries.

That being said, the history of the bean drug is fascinating. It is reported that Lloyds of London was a cafe where people became so consumed by caffeine that they started betting on disasters, leading to the reinsurance business of today.

 

[OldHvyMec]

Coffee is a better up you kiester than down your throat so I've been told. I have a grinder that grinds the bean and it doesn't get hot or self destruct.
Under 100.00 usd, mine is 8-10 years old. The HEAT of the water, the way the bean was prepared and the size of the grind.
If I really want to get picky I boil the water under pressure and poor it over all glassware without a filter. 1/2 an aged split Vera Cruz vanilla bean is added.
I keep 2 or 3 types of coffee beans. We have a local roaster. I keep 2 types of vanilla beans Madagascar and Vera Cruz. 2kg last about a 2 years.
A pretty good one is Moccamaster for heat. A pressure cooker is better though. I mean really HEAT the water.. and no plastic filter holders. Cooking GLASS
it makes a difference and it doesn't cost a fortune.

 

[dfuller]

I have a Rancilio Silvia, not the Pro. I'm wondering if the rotary pump you used would fit in my machine? There seems to be a fair amount of room where the current pump is. Could you send me a link to what you used? Thanks !

I'm going to go with maybe - the Pro is substantially larger than the original. It's a Procon 61R1FBF2ZAP, and because it uses a 24V DC motor I had to add a 24V DC power supply. I know somebody did manage it with a different Procon micro vane pump...

 

[r042wal]

I'm going to go with maybe - the Pro is substantially larger than the original. It's a Procon 61R1FBF2ZAP, and because it uses a 24V DC motor I had to add a 24V DC power supply. I know somebody did manage it with a different Procon micro vane pump...

I looked at the engineering drawing and the only way I could see that fitting in my machine would be to remove the water tank and plumb it in. That would be a lot of work for little gain in the long run. Thanks for the help

 

[computer-audiophile]

Humble Espresso-station in our kitchen.

 

[computer-audiophile]

... and in the afternoon also times a good tea.

 

[bodhi]

I have tried Aeropress, moka Pot, multiple pour over techniques with Hario and Chemex filters. Test drived middle priced espresso machine.

After a lot of preference tastings I concluded that there is not nearly enough improvement in the hobbyist methods to warrant the extra trouble. Given enough time I could probably condition myself to believe that a perfectly made cup is a truly wonderous experience worth of describing in detail where as a standard cup tastes like dirt, but why bother?

 

[LouB]

I have tried Aeropress, moka Pot, multiple pour over techniques with Hario and Chemex filters. Test drived middle priced espresso machine.

After a lot of preference tastings I concluded that there is not nearly enough improvement in the hobbyist methods to warrant the extra trouble. Given enough time I could probably condition myself to believe that a perfectly made cup is a truly wonderous experience worth of describing in detail where as a standard cup tastes like dirt, but why bother?

Since you asked, if you can't tell the difference you should not bother.

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm a bit of a coffee nerd myself, I use a Vario for my grinder but only do pour-over or aeropress, not willing to spend the $$ on a proper espresso machine. I used to roast my own but haven't in a while mainly due to lack of proper ventilation in my apartment. I weigh the beans, etc. etc.


I agree there's a lot of bullshit in the coffee world like any other hobby, but I would say the closest equivalent to ASR I've seen in coffee is https://www.home-barista.com/ ... like here, they also do measurements (of grind fineness and consistency, solids concentrations, etc.) and like here, they are absurdly interested in hobby gear.

 

[bodhi]

Since you asked, if you can't tell the difference you should not bother.

Question becomes then is my mouth not resolving enough? Or does controlled testing mask differences in coffee?

 

[ocinn]

I have a manual burr grinder and a manual Flair Espresso machine with a nice temp-controlled kettle. All in ~$400 and can make just as good coffee as a multi-thousand dollar machine, with just way more inconvenience. Happy to make that tradeoff since I only make one drink a day.

I think this argument is pretty flawed anyways. Coffee quality is subjective. Audio performance, even as a complete system and room can be objectified.

 

[Soniclife]

Spoiler: a blind test using cheapo grinders vs the very best could not be discerned by acclaimed espresso afficianados.

Do you have a link to that?

One of the interesting things about coffee is it's assigned a quality grade by blind testing, by qualified graders, some basic info at the link below. It's not easy to pass the exam.

What is the Q Arabica Grader Exam? | Little City Coffee Roasters

This past January I hit a milestone when I taught my 100th CQI course. I have had the pleasure of helping many people on their coffee journey and I can only ...

littlecity.com

 

[antcollinet]

Audio performance, even as a complete system and room can be objectified.

Phwoar! Look at the humps on that sinewave.