System suggestions and brand valve assessment

[AudioNewbie]

I've had this starter system set up for about a month now:

WiiM Pro Plus streamer for Amazon Music -> Schiit Saga S PreAmp -> Fosi Audio V3 PowerAmp -> Emotiva B2+ speakers and RSL 12S Subwoofer.

I'm open to any suggestions for enhancements that might stand out to you, based on your experience or any notable poor ratings on ASR.

PS:
After delving into discussions on this forum, I've gathered that SMSL seems to be the go-to brand for DACs, while Topping appears to be the preferred choice for PreAmps, PowerAmps, and IntegratedAmps. However, their extensive product lines are quite bewildering to me. There's a vibe that these brands are more of a use-and-discard type with a rather tedious warranty service process.

On the other hand, Emotiva seems to have a solid reputation for US customer service, although it doesn't fare well on ASR measurements. Schiit, on the other hand, seems to be a reliable choice for US-manufactured products that measure well, coupled with decent (if not stellar?) US customer service. Would you concur with these assessments?

Thank you!

 

[Steven Holt]

Your rig sounds pretty good to me, but that Fosi is giving me trouble. Why don't u look at a nice Yamaha AS501 and pair it with a lovely Topping E series DAC? I believe that would be an honest upgrade.

 

[AudioNewbie]

Your rig sounds pretty good to me, but that Fosi is giving me trouble. Why don't u look at a nice Yamaha AS501 and pair it with a lovely Topping E series DAC? I believe that would be an honest upgrade.

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll definitely explore the Yamaha AS501 and delve into the Topping E series DAC. Do you have any insights regarding the post-purchase customer experience with Topping, particularly concerning warranties and returns? I'm a bit apprehensive about the possibility of having to ship the product to China and back for any warranty-related services. I hope it's not as tedious as I assume!

 

[radix]

I'm not sure how deep you want to go, but buying a UMIK-1 and learning to use REW to measure your system would be my first step. Establish a baseline. You might find tuning the sub integration or speaker position could make a large and audible difference. Upgrading DACs and amps will likely be minor differences. Though I don't know how the Fosi measures vs the Yamaha.

One you have measurements, you can decide how to prioritize. Maybe a 2nd sub to fill in a null. Or change the sub/speaker crossover frequency. Or DRC to flatten out room effects, or some room treatments. Or maybe that's all good and it's down to the dac and amp.

 

[Steven Holt]

Thank you for the suggestions. I'll definitely explore the Yamaha AS501 and delve into the Topping E series DAC. Do you have any insights regarding the post-purchase customer experience with Topping, particularly concerning warranties and returns? I'm a bit apprehensive about the possibility of having to ship the product to China and back for any warranty-related services. I hope it's not as tedious as I assume!

I have two pieces of Topping : the D30 DAC, and the PA3s. Both are very good at what they do. I have never had one problem with either. Some of our membership has a problem with Topping with regard to quality. That's not been my experience, and I don't believe that it is the experience of 90 pct. plus of Topping owners. As I have said before, any mass producted product can fail. I wouldn't hesitate to own Topping again (and I have my eye on the PA5 II, that may be a good one for you.)

Now, let's talk about that Umik. Radix is right, it will be helpful to you. But he's very serious about this hobby, as anyone who owns TWO AHB2's would be (may we all be so blessed). You're gonna have to pay $130 for the microphone (the software is free). What do u do after you measure your room? Put it in a drawer? My feeling is this : if you're into Home Theatre, room correction is essential, it's money well invested. If you just have a nice 2.1 system....well, you can get by without it -- as most do. In the end, you're the one who's going to have to decide how much money you want to put into this hobby.

PS You can ignore the advice about the DAC, the WiiM should have one built in. Remember what I said about the Yamaha and Topping. Best wishes on starting an amazing adventure!

 

[radix]

I do agree that one must want to get into the minutia to work with the mic + REW. Maybe for a modest prices rig, it's not worth it? And if you do not want to spend the time asking around the forum or learning REW from docs + youtube, then its not worth it either. But, you can get better integration of your sub into the system and maybe discover issues with your speaker and/or sub position that could make a big difference. It would also allow you to EQ your room, even if just in Roon or on your PC. There are cheaper measurement mics, but you need an audio interface for them -- if you happen to have one with phantom power, then you could get a mic for $50 or so.

I guess for me, being able to quantify a configuration is important, so I know when I make a change how it is affecting the system. Using one's ears is fraught with illusions.

Anyway, the most important thing is that you are happy with your sound and your gear. If you are happy EQ or tone control by ear, then that's OK for you.

P.S. You can always re-sell the umik once you are done measuring, so the cost is really (purchase - resale).

 

[AudioNewbie]

Thank you, Steven and Radix, for sharing your insights! I am keen on exploring and learning more about UMIX. If there is an informative YouTube video on UMIX that you particularly appreciate, I'd be grateful if you could share them with me. Thanks!

 

[radix]

If you do a google for "rew video site:audiosciencereview.com" you will see what other people have recommended. I don't have anything in specific.

REW is the free software to analyze your audio system (https://www.roomeqwizard.com/). They do have a series of videos linked on their web page, maybe start with those?

the UMIK-1 is the USB measurement microphone used to capture the sound. You can get it from amazon or other retailers. You will be able to download a calibration file for the mic that tells REW how to correct for the frequency response of your particular microphone.

It is fairly easy to capture data (basically hook up your computer to the system, adjust the volume, run a frequency sweep through the L and then through the R). It is a lot like running speaker calibration for an AV system, but a bit more manual. Making sense of the data is more complex. You can post your graphs on ASR and there are helpful people who will interpret them for you.

There are a few threads on using REW and looking at REW graphs on ASR. You could search for those too.

 

[JeremyFife]

Hi, and welcome.

Since you asked: my main thought really is have you auditioned those speakers? https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_b2plus/
(good site) throws up some concerns. Worth considering

The DAC in the WiiM is pretty good... why do you want a preamp in the loop? It's an expensive volume control if that's all you want it for.

WiiM is the no-brainer streamer choice (imo), Fossi v3 is a well regarded amp - those are good.

What do you want that needs a preamp (volume control is a very good answer).

Speakers are the most important part of your system (apart from Room interactions) ... pay attention to that.

Enjoy the music

 

[AudioNewbie]

Hi, and welcome.

Since you asked: my main thought really is have you auditioned those speakers? https://www.erinsaudiocorner.com/loudspeakers/emotiva_b2plus/
(good site) throws up some concerns. Worth considering

The DAC in the WiiM is pretty good... why do you want a preamp in the loop? It's an expensive volume control if that's all you want it for.

WiiM is the no-brainer streamer choice (imo), Fossi v3 is a well regarded amp - those are good.

What do you want that needs a preamp (volume control is a very good answer).

Speakers are the most important part of your system (apart from Room interactions) ... pay attention to that.

Enjoy the music

I truly appreciate you sharing Erin's link featuring a detailed, data-driven review. Just yesterday, I watched a video by Amir on speaker measurements, so diving into this read should be engaging. I'm looking forward to going through it! I've had the B2+ for over a month now, having purchased it based on some subjective reviews on YouTube. I discovered ASR after making the purchase and wish I had come across Amir/Erin much earlier.

Indeed, the pre-amp seems like a redundant device to me too. While it does a fine job with volume control, I'm not a fan of the cheesy remote designed by Schiit (no offense, Schiit!). I opted for the pre-amp as the idea of having separate components appealed to me, though there wasn't any scientific basis for this choice—just the allure of having another gadget . Thank you for all your insights; they affirm my thoughts on the pre-amp.

I also own the IOTAVX SA-3 and PA-3. Interestingly, it appears that the Fosi V3 has better measurements. Is it possible for a Class D amp to outperform a Class AB amp?

 

[JeremyFife]

Amps: at our level, don't worry about "class" , a good amp is a good amp. Class D's are highly efficient, and it's probably the way to go these days. No surprise that the Fossi measures better than alternatives.
Note though, that there will be no audible difference between good amps ... so it's not a massive thing to worry about.