Stereo is f**ked.

[tomtoo]

What do you think?

Lets have some discussion. Maybe one day we will get 24 channel recordings? And have 10 omnis in the room?

What do you think?

 

[Killingbeans]

What do you think?

That the dude sounds like he has smoked half of the weed the world has ever grown.

And now he has "discovered" the concept of an omnidirectional speaker

 

[tomtoo]

That the dude sounds like he has smoked half of the weed the world has ever grown.

And now he has "discovered" the concept of an omnidirectional speaker

He always sounds like that.
But he is a well known live engineer.

Its not real omnidiractional couse the backfacing speakers get the recordings from the back of the musician.

 

[Blumlein 88]

He should have also recorded a real guitar playing in the same spot using his stereo Tascam to compare to the two versions of the speaker.

I've done similar recordings that were multi-miked and each musician got a speaker. Worked much better than most recordings for a they are here effect. I literally put several speakers where the original musicians were. Obvious limitations to that approach.

 

[Andysu]

toilet tubing simply cheap speakers cheap
also dayton exciters why not glue them onto a guitar and everyone will think someone is playing it
i think i see bog toilet tubing used for was it , orion speaker , no pulto plastic tubing linkwitz speaker
^ so many designs ideas around

dave rat is far out there and willing to share in this small world in this vastness of the expanding universe

 

[tomtoo]

He should have also recorded a real guitar playing in the same spot using his stereo Tascam to compare to the two versions of the speaker.

I've done similar recordings that were multi-miked and each musician got a speaker. Worked much better than most recordings for a they are here effect. I literally put several speakers where the original musicians were. Obvious limitations to that approach.

What are the limitations if we forgett at the moment the needet hardware? I mean lets play a littel with that aproach.

 

[Andysu]

That the dude sounds like he has smoked half of the weed the world has ever grown.

And now he has "discovered" the concept of an omnidirectional speaker

lol he always talks like that , dave rat is cool and willing to share

 

[Blumlein 88]

What are the limitations if we forgett at the moment the needet hardware?

You have to move speakers for each recording. Or create a configuration of the musicians that never existed. Which might not be so bad as you are hearing them as if they were in your own room more so than where they really were. You could have maybe a two row grid of 9 speakers across the front of your room. Or some such.

 

[tomtoo]

You have to move speakers for each recording. Or create a configuration of the musicians that never existed. Which might not be so bad as you are hearing them as if they were in your own room more so than where they really were. You could have maybe a two row grid of 9 speakers across the front of your room. Or some such.

I think that aproach is not inherently wrong, it would just be a enourmus need for hardware.

 

[Blumlein 88]

What are the limitations if we forgett at the moment the needet hardware? I mean lets play a littel with that aproach.

BTW, it isn't a new idea. Some of those early 60's demos where they had live musicians and replaced them with speakers were done like that. One, maybe the one by Acoustic Research speakers, they recorded each musician on a quiet open hilltop so there were no reflections. Then played the recording on a speaker where the musician would be. It fooled everyone. Some other similar live or recorded demos were done in a similar manner.

One of the things in this video. Of course it sounded more the same all the way around his half-way omni. You may have noticed it sounded pretty good right in front of the Infinity speaker. That does not mean the omni would be a better speaker to use. Musicians and instruments are not omni either. They probably are closer to cardioid though with more uneven and complex directionality depending upon the instrument. So even if you created each musician in one speaker an omni isn't the best choice. If the omni is near a wall or corner rather than in the middle of a space it likely is worse.

 

[AdamG]

What do you think?

He’s not wrong and he is correct in some respects about the current SOTA music reproduction system. These dissimilarities are why we can’t/don’t accurately reproduce the actual sound of live Music when more than one artist/instrument is performing. Multichannel formats get closer than Stereo but are still flawed. We have become accustomed to 2ch sound. But it’s not accurate reproduction of live sound. Cool dude!

Plus when he’s done experimenting with music,he will have a whole bunch of new crazy Bongs to try out! Even cooler dude.

 

[tomtoo]

BTW, it isn't a new idea. Some of those early 60's demos where they had live musicians and replaced them with speakers were done like that. One, maybe the one by Acoustic Research speakers, they recorded each musician on a quiet open hilltop so there were no reflections. Then played the recording on a speaker where the musician would be. It fooled everyone. Some other similar live or recorded demos were done in a similar manner.

One of the things in this video. Of course it sounded more the same all the way around his half-way omni. You may have noticed it sounded pretty good right in front of the Infinity speaker. That does not mean the omni would be a better speaker to use. Musicians and instruments are not omni either. They probably are closer to cardioid though with more uneven and complex directionality depending upon the instrument. So even if you created each musician in one speaker an omni isn't the best choice. If the omni is near a wall or corner rather than in the middle of a space it likely is worse.

Yes record without room. I want to get fooled. . Its not a omni, its two directional speakers that get different signal. A omni would get only one signal.

 

[tomtoo]

He’s not wrong and he is correct in some respects about the current SOTA music reproduction system. These dissimilarities are why we can’t/don’t accurately reproduce the actual sound of live. Music when more than one artist/instrument is performing. Multichannel formats get closer than Stereo but are still flawed. We have become accustomed to 2ch sound. But it’s not accurate reproduction of live sound. Cool dude!

Plus when he’s done experimenting with music,he will have a whole bunch of new crazy Bongs to try out! Even cooler dude.

Hehe!

 

[tomtoo]

He’s not wrong and he is correct in some respects about the current SOTA music reproduction system. These dissimilarities are why we can’t/don’t accurately reproduce the actual sound of live Music when more than one artist/instrument is performing. Multichannel formats get closer than Stereo but are still flawed. We have become accustomed to 2ch sound. But it’s not accurate reproduction of live sound. Cool dude!

Plus when he’s done experimenting with music,he will have a whole bunch of new crazy Bongs to try out! Even cooler dude.

We are so used to flawed stereo, that some think thats the natural sound. And fight about if 2db up at 18 khz is right or wrong. Thats somehow crazy. Its like fighting about a soja steak or a soja steak with a littel more pepper tastes more original to a beef steak.

 

[mhardy6647]

I am sure that the end of (two channel) stereo was proclaimed when quad hit the stores.



1972 LRE catalog

 

[tomtoo]

I am sure that the end of (two channel) stereo was proclaimed when quad hit the stores.



1972 LRE catalog

The same flawed.

 

[mhardy6647]

The same flawed.

... but twice as much!

 

[tomtoo]

... but twice as much!

Hehe!

 

[AdamG]

I am sure that the end of (two channel) stereo was proclaimed when quad hit the stores.



1972 LRE catalog

Just think how far ahead they were at the time! Actually Quad was the inspiration for the First Surround Sound introduction in major movies. Disney’s Fantasia in 1940’s

Here is a chronology of surround sound in movies: (Credit: http://www.spannerworks.net/reference/10_3a.asp)

• 1926: First sound (music and sound effects) in a film, 'Don Juan' using the 'Vitaphone' sound-on-disc system​
• 1927: First film with recorded dialogue, 'The Jazz Singer', using the 'Vitaphone' system​
• 1940: First use of 'surround sound' in a movie: Disney's 'Fantasia', using the 'Fantasound' system​
• 1953: The first four-track (L/C/R/S) magnetic sound system used for Twentieth Century Fox's 'The Robe' (35mm Cinemascope)​
• 1955: The first six-track magnetic sound system used for the film 'Oklahoma!' (70mm Todd-AO: five screen channels, one surround channel)​
• 1975: Dolby Stereo introduced with 'Tommy' (also recorded in the 'Quintaphonic' system), optical Dolby Stereo introduced for 'Lisztomania'​
• 1976: First optical Dolby Stereo Surround soundtrack for 'A Star is Born'​
• 1977: 'Damnation Alley' released in 'Surround 360°'. The format's one and only outing​
• 1978: 'Star Wars' wins the Academy Award for Best Achievement in Sound. Subsequently, every winner until 1994 is a Dolby Stereo film; Limited experimental release of Dolby Stereo 70mm with discrete stereo surround channels (Superman)​
• 1979: First broad release Dolby Stereo 70mm soundtrack with discrete stereo surround channels (Apocalypse Now on 15 screens)​
• 1980: 'Popeye' becomes the first film to use the 'Vistasonic' system​
• 1981: First pre-recorded VHS cassette with a stereo soundtrack (non Hi-Fi, Dolby B NR encoded) released by Pacific Arts​
• 1982: First domestic Dolby Surround decoder, by Surround Sound Inc.​
• 1983: VHS 'Hi-Fi' sound system introduced​
• 1985: 'Fantasia' re-released theatrically with a 2-channel PCM (44.1kHz/16-bit) soundtrack: the first time a PCM soundtrack was used for a theatrical presentation; First Dolby Surround encoded LaserDiscs and videocassettes released​
• 1986: Dolby Stereo SR (Spectral Recording) introduced; NICAM digital stereo sound tested by the BBC; PCM digital audio on LaserDisc​
• 1987: First Dolby Stereo SR films released: Innerspace and Robocop​
• 1990: Kodak's CDS six-channel digital sound system introduced ('Dick Tracy')​
• 1991: Limited experimental release of 'Star Trek 6' in Dolby Digital (in 3 US theatres)​
• 1992: Dolby Digital's national roll-out (US): 'Batman Returns'​
• 1993: DTS introduced in 'Jurassic Park', SDDS introduced in 'Last Action Hero'; AC-3 formally adopted as HDTV's audio standard​
• 1994: First dual-format film released ('Heaven and Earth' with both DTS and Dolby Digital soundtracks on the same print); First consumer satellite transmission of Dolby Digital AC-3 (DMX for Business: 120 channels of stereo broadcasting)​
• 1995: Domestic (384kbps) Dolby Digital introduced on LaserDisc (NTSC only); 'Die Hard With a Vengeance' released theatrically using all three sound systems (DTS/DD/SDDS)​
• 1996: First DVD-Video discs released in Japan (November, first title: Shinji Ra Munita); Dolby Digital becomes available on DVD; Installed base of Dolby Stereo equipped theatres passes 28,000; Dolby Surround AC-3, Dolby Stereo Digital, Dolby SRD officially renamed 'Dolby Digital'​
• 1997: First DVD-Video discs released in the US (March); 448kbps Dolby Digital available on DVD; DTS becomes available on LaserDisc (January: first title Jurassic Park)​
• 1998: (non-theatrical) DTS DVD released: the made-for-video animated film 'The Legend of Mulan' (not Disney's 'Mulan')​
• 1999: Universal and Image begin releasing theatrical DTS DVDs (January): 'Dances with Wolves' (Image), 'Dante's Peak', 'Waterworld', 'The Shadow', 'Liar Liar', 'Babe', 'Daylight' (Universal); installed base of theatrical Dolby Digital decoders passes 20,000; 'Star Wars: Episode One: The Phantom Menace' released in Dolby Digital Surround EX: also shown with uncompressed PCM soundtracks (44.1kHz/24-bit) in four US theatres. First 754kbps DTS DVD title released (November, Saving Private Ryan)​
• 2000: First DTS-ES Discrete 6.1 DVD released (The Haunting)​
• 2002: Dolby Digital 'Sonic Whole Overhead Sound' system demonstrated for the limited re-release of We Were Soldiers.​

 

[mhardy6647]

Speaking of Fantasia...

The audio technology used for Fantasia was remarkable -- some of it still is (^^^)

RCA's 'Fantasound' System as used for Disney's 'Fantasia' - Fantasound Details - Part I (International Projectionist; 1940-11) — DIX - Disney Index Project (relaunch β)

DIX - Disney Index Project (relaunch β)

www.dix-project.net

Most of the science of acoustics -- at least in terms of sound reproduction -- was worked out for the talkies.
But all y'all knew that already!