Geert
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All XTZ subs are vented enclosures. Most high end subwoofers aimed at music instead of HT are closed cabinets.
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Rythmik Audio shipping overseas - chances?
- Thread starter Nikolas
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I'll openly admit that I do not know enough about subwoofers to make a statement as to the pros and cons about either design (especially not with DSP thrown in to the mix). But, wouldn't a ported design fare more or less the same as a sealed one if the ports were to be plugged on the former? As far as I know, XTZ supply plugs with their subwoofers, and you can order plugs from SVS.
You can get PSA subwoofers in Europe: https://www.powersoundaudio.eu/
The new line with B&C drivers seems excellent.
If you can look further the "ugly" look when compared with other brands (Arendal, for example), you will not find better value in Europe, besides DIY.
The new line with B&C drivers seems excellent.
If you can look further the "ugly" look when compared with other brands (Arendal, for example), you will not find better value in Europe, besides DIY.
Geert
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As far as I see they don't even have 10" or 12" subs, and their cheapest one is twice the cost of a Rythmik...
Geert
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I always wondered what the result is of stuffing a port. You end up with a closed cabinet, but with a volume that's optimised for a vented enclosure and not a closed one. This means it's not optimally tuned. I expect the volume to be insufficient, which I guess can lead to a bad Qtc. But I don't know what the impact is in practice.
I think this is partly a myth , a good ported sub will also do music , but it have some charateristic that differs from ported and have to be built acordingly . Rhytmic has for example a "rumple filter/port setting" for when you stuff the ports or one of the ports in fact a High pass filter , it has several settings that regards Q output and desired roll of piont .
Also a ported design needs to be tuned very low the FV15HP is between 14-17Hz depending how you use the ports. and have proper filtering to avoid flapping bass driver below the tuning frequency (which is the problem).
One drawback of ported is that below the tuning frequncy output falls much faster than a closed box. But with a big enough ported sub you have your 20Hz (or rather 14Hz with the tuning i chosed , i dont come near max spl so i can chose a lower tuning ).
I think thats a reasoable compromise i dont need to reproduce the weather at the venue would ti be 0,0000001Hz or something
A small vented sub would be a compromise like in cheap HT with a tuning around 30-40Hz ofcourse it would be horrible I think the typical bad implemtation of ported subs as a cop out for proper design gives this solution a bad name , to small ports with audible chuffing etc .
I may experience chuffing with certain pipeorgan music at extreme levels ? the port tuning is not near most of the typical bassinstrument you have ? it's the other ambience stuff thet may be sligthly compromised . The upside is that it can produce bass at rather high spl for a single driver 15" .
I don't subrcibe to the notion that phase or "timing" comes into it certainly not at 14Hz ?
Also a ported design needs to be tuned very low the FV15HP is between 14-17Hz depending how you use the ports. and have proper filtering to avoid flapping bass driver below the tuning frequency (which is the problem).
One drawback of ported is that below the tuning frequncy output falls much faster than a closed box. But with a big enough ported sub you have your 20Hz (or rather 14Hz with the tuning i chosed , i dont come near max spl so i can chose a lower tuning ).
I think thats a reasoable compromise i dont need to reproduce the weather at the venue would ti be 0,0000001Hz or something
A small vented sub would be a compromise like in cheap HT with a tuning around 30-40Hz ofcourse it would be horrible
I think the typical bad implemtation of ported subs as a cop out for proper design gives this solution a bad name , to small ports with audible chuffing etc .I may experience chuffing with certain pipeorgan music at extreme levels ? the port tuning is not near most of the typical bassinstrument you have ? it's the other ambience stuff thet may be sligthly compromised . The upside is that it can produce bass at rather high spl for a single driver 15" .
I don't subrcibe to the notion that phase or "timing" comes into it certainly not at 14Hz ?
Geert
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I wouldn't call the fact that an optimally designed closed cabinet for a driver will have a different volume than that of a vented one a myth. Rhythmic offering specific DSP settings to manage that confirms it. I question if it allows them to perfectly handle that or just makes it less worse.
What I've seen is that brands who offer both types of cabinets will always advice the closed ones for music. Vented cabinets have worse group delay, which leads to 'slow bass' (just using a term which seems to be popular).
Yes we mostly agree actually English is not my first language
I’m a bit sceptical to ‘ slow bass ‘ it’s just a marketing term imo , but yes greater group delay .I do wonder if not that is swamped by room interactions who seems to actually do slow and muddy without correction.
I have never actually heard a “ perfect “ setup of subwoofers meaning multiple subs and room correction together.
I can only place one sub in my two latest rooms but I do use room correction.
My idea is that sub and room are one and you can’t really separate them it’s a box in box at those very low frequencies.
So I don’t think it’s easy to “ hear “ the subwoofer.
It becomes a game of not having any obvious flaws enough spl for the application and integrate well
Nowadays i prefer to save for longer, and go directly to the best i can afford, it allows you to save in the longer run.
Regarding Rythmik subs, they have a custom install series, where you can buy the amplifier plate and driver, which is not only cheaper, but the shipping and taxes costs would probably be much cheaper. Take a look here: http://www.rythmikaudio.com/products2.html
Geert
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I think people taking the effort to ship Rythmik to Europe are going for the best. And they'll have 2 good sub's for the same price, and 2 subs is often better than 1.
Having had Philips MFB 544 active speakers before (model number 22RH544), I had been longing for a subwoofer to match the pair of passive speakers I later replaced them with.
The MFB implementation Philips got done in the 70s was really impressive, playing flat down to (in my simple Android smartphone Spectroid measurements) 27 Hz in a tiny box of 29 x 39 x 22 cm with 8 inch drivers. Due to the old, inefficient design, they consumed 10W each in standby and ~50W while in use, and since they used the old DIN connectors that were likely corroded, they would sometimes drop in volume and need replugging.
I fell in love with the sound signature Philips had back then in this product line, so I went for a pair of 22RH457, which are twice as big but passive, with a passive radiator design, that has them output flat down to 50 Hz.
The Rythmik design of servo-controlled subwoofers was just what I was looking for, to get the strong, controlled bass presence I remembered from the MFB speakers, but without the power draw and with more modern connectivity.
The way they present their products also gained my sympathy. While I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to audio physics, I'm very technically and scientifically aligned and appreciate it when companies provide clear data and measurements up-front before purchase. While there are similar products made in Europe, they are priced much higher (Grimm Audio / ServoLabs Little/One and Grown/Up speakers) and don't provide much technical information or measurements.
Living in the EU, I contacted Rythmik directly by email and stated clearly that I'd be okay with shipping costs of up to 400 USD. I went for the lightest model L12, since even its measurements seem easily sufficient for the two fairly small (16 and 25 m² respectively) rooms that I intend to use them in.
They responded quickly to all my questions and confirmed that shipping of the L12 model to Europe is possible. I was quoted 229 USD in shipping costs to my address in Vienna, Austria, for a total of 858 USD. UPS also charged import taxes of 96€, which was less than I expected, for total costs of about 900€. They were packed very safely, double box with foam layers on all corners, and arrived in perfect condition (despite the UPS delivery guy dropping them from about 20 cm height).
They draw about 7W in standby and 15-20W at moderate listening levels, with what I consider powerful output. I've only used them for music so far. I bought them at the same time as a second-hand SVS SB 2000 subwoofer, also 12 inch, for 450€ (new price 680-900€), and I'll compare their output in the next weeks. On first impression, the Rythmik L12 extends substantially further down, and the wide selection of adjustment knobs and switches is certainly appreciated.
The MFB implementation Philips got done in the 70s was really impressive, playing flat down to (in my simple Android smartphone Spectroid measurements) 27 Hz in a tiny box of 29 x 39 x 22 cm with 8 inch drivers. Due to the old, inefficient design, they consumed 10W each in standby and ~50W while in use, and since they used the old DIN connectors that were likely corroded, they would sometimes drop in volume and need replugging.
I fell in love with the sound signature Philips had back then in this product line, so I went for a pair of 22RH457, which are twice as big but passive, with a passive radiator design, that has them output flat down to 50 Hz.
The Rythmik design of servo-controlled subwoofers was just what I was looking for, to get the strong, controlled bass presence I remembered from the MFB speakers, but without the power draw and with more modern connectivity.
The way they present their products also gained my sympathy. While I'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to audio physics, I'm very technically and scientifically aligned and appreciate it when companies provide clear data and measurements up-front before purchase. While there are similar products made in Europe, they are priced much higher (Grimm Audio / ServoLabs Little/One and Grown/Up speakers) and don't provide much technical information or measurements.
Living in the EU, I contacted Rythmik directly by email and stated clearly that I'd be okay with shipping costs of up to 400 USD. I went for the lightest model L12, since even its measurements seem easily sufficient for the two fairly small (16 and 25 m² respectively) rooms that I intend to use them in.
They responded quickly to all my questions and confirmed that shipping of the L12 model to Europe is possible. I was quoted 229 USD in shipping costs to my address in Vienna, Austria, for a total of 858 USD. UPS also charged import taxes of 96€, which was less than I expected, for total costs of about 900€. They were packed very safely, double box with foam layers on all corners, and arrived in perfect condition (despite the UPS delivery guy dropping them from about 20 cm height).
They draw about 7W in standby and 15-20W at moderate listening levels, with what I consider powerful output. I've only used them for music so far. I bought them at the same time as a second-hand SVS SB 2000 subwoofer, also 12 inch, for 450€ (new price 680-900€), and I'll compare their output in the next weeks. On first impression, the Rythmik L12 extends substantially further down, and the wide selection of adjustment knobs and switches is certainly appreciated.
I'm looking at some subwoofers to pair with my ATC 25A speakers. I've read in many places that the quality of Rythmik Audio is unbeatable, and I was ready to buy a pair. However, I've come across the issue that they don't ship to Europe. Even if they did, the shipping costs I'm reading here are excessive in my opinion, and I'm also concerned that dealing with any potential problems might be chaotic due to the lack of distribution on this continent. Because of this, I'm starting to think it might not be the best option. I prefer sealed models since I'm avoiding bass reflex systems. What would be the next option on your list, which is easily purchasable in Europe? I need them for music production and mixing.
Arendal makes pretty good sealed subs and I believe they have full distribution in the EU. They do not have as much output as comparably priced Rythmik subs, but since shipping would be prohibitive....the Arendal 1723 1S or 2S are the sealed versions.
SVS SB 2000 are sealed and measured here: https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/sv-sound-svs-sb-pb-2000
In many reviews, they are found to be on a similar level as Rythmik L12, with more focus on SPL than SQ / low extension. I haven't had the time for extensive comparison sessions yet. To be honest though, I think that around 1000€ effective price including import tax for the Rythmik doesn't seem excessive when considering that your pair of speakers costs ~7000€.
Regarding Arendal 1723 1S, they will set you back ~1600€ and are measured here: https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/arendal-1723-1s-1v/conclusion
Even with the equalizer setting with the widest downward extension, dropoff seems to be slightly earlier / steeper than with Rythmik L12, measured here independently as well as on Rythmik's specification page. 20 Hz appears 6 dB down compared to 40 Hz on the 1723 1S, whereas with L12 it's only about 3 dB.
SVS SB 2000 are 92 dB at 20 Hz vs 108 dB at 40 Hz, so these fall off even more.
I'm not sure whether for the music you're producing low bass from 20-30 Hz matters much. It seems very rare for any music to have peaks below 30 Hz, and even below 40 Hz is quite rare. For me personally getting as flat of a response down to 20 Hz still felt right as a goal for a subwoofer, as that way if those peaks do exist on a track, they are reproduced accurately and I won't feel the upgrade itch.
If you mostly just need 30 Hz and above, the warranty and repair options one the SVS SB 2000 or Arendal 1723 1S might be worth it over the Rythmik.
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I have bought 8 Rythmik Subs since 2019, 6 F/M 8 and 2 F18. I got them shipped to Germany at reasonable rates. One F8 became defective; they‘ve checked with me what was the most likely part to get replaced, sent it over (just paid customs) and told me how to replace it. I am absolutely no DIY‘er but it was easy.
Wow, thank you very much for the quick responses. I'm new to the forum and honestly, I really appreciate what I'm finding here.
Since you all replied at once, I will write a post to respond to everything.
Rynberg, regarding Arendal, I've been reading and it seems like an interesting option. Thank you very much.
To kadano, about what you mentioned. One of my options was the sb3000, mainly for the security of the purchase, warranties, and returns. From what I've read, the response quality of the 3000 is better than the 2000 (I'm not sure if that's true or not). However, I get the impression that this brand might not be the most suitable for professional audio mixing, but rather seems to be more oriented towards Home cinema (please correct me if I'm wrong).
About Rhythmik, I was considering the option of the f12. From what I've read in various places, these are almost the holy grail of cost/performance subs, and as I've read, the l12 decreases in quality (correct me if I'm wrong). For the f12, they would cost me €1236 per subwoofer (VAT included) + around €300 for shipping as discussed in the forum. You're right about the price of the ATC, however, if I can look at my budget a bit more, I appreciate that, otherwise, my options would be the scs70 or the jl audio f112, but I think that might be too much.
Regarding the Arendal, I see that distribution in Europe is almost nonexistent (speaking of the Eurozone), and indeed, they are not cheap. In that price range, I think I would go for other options.
There are some that have been recommended to me, which are the hsu uls15-mk2. Do you know about them?
The music I produce and mix is very mainstream, using a lot of 808 with a ton of bass content. I need subwoofers that can handle a lot of workload for many hours. By the way, I prioritize playback fidelity much more than the volume they can offer.
Hello Olli. Regarding what you mentioned, at what price did you get them? Because from what they state on their website, they are not open to exporting directly. Based on what you said, do they make exceptions?
Thank you very much, everyone.
Since you all replied at once, I will write a post to respond to everything.
Rynberg, regarding Arendal, I've been reading and it seems like an interesting option. Thank you very much.
To kadano, about what you mentioned. One of my options was the sb3000, mainly for the security of the purchase, warranties, and returns. From what I've read, the response quality of the 3000 is better than the 2000 (I'm not sure if that's true or not). However, I get the impression that this brand might not be the most suitable for professional audio mixing, but rather seems to be more oriented towards Home cinema (please correct me if I'm wrong).
About Rhythmik, I was considering the option of the f12. From what I've read in various places, these are almost the holy grail of cost/performance subs, and as I've read, the l12 decreases in quality (correct me if I'm wrong). For the f12, they would cost me €1236 per subwoofer (VAT included) + around €300 for shipping as discussed in the forum. You're right about the price of the ATC, however, if I can look at my budget a bit more, I appreciate that, otherwise, my options would be the scs70 or the jl audio f112, but I think that might be too much.
Regarding the Arendal, I see that distribution in Europe is almost nonexistent (speaking of the Eurozone), and indeed, they are not cheap. In that price range, I think I would go for other options.
There are some that have been recommended to me, which are the hsu uls15-mk2. Do you know about them?
The music I produce and mix is very mainstream, using a lot of 808 with a ton of bass content. I need subwoofers that can handle a lot of workload for many hours. By the way, I prioritize playback fidelity much more than the volume they can offer.
Hello Olli. Regarding what you mentioned, at what price did you get them? Because from what they state on their website, they are not open to exporting directly. Based on what you said, do they make exceptions?
Thank you very much, everyone.
Are looks important?
If not, a great option is one of the PSA 18" subs, they use top of the line B&C drivers.
I'm not sure if they are available in Europe (they are available in UK), but even if they are not, you can use a parcel forward to ship it to you.
Kalibrate has a demo unit on ebay for a great price:
- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275940828837
They are not much bigger and would "murder" any of the other options!
If not, a great option is one of the PSA 18" subs, they use top of the line B&C drivers.
I'm not sure if they are available in Europe (they are available in UK), but even if they are not, you can use a parcel forward to ship it to you.
Kalibrate has a demo unit on ebay for a great price:
- https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/275940828837
They are not much bigger and would "murder" any of the other options!
Which model would you recommend? There's a 15" as well
Top Rated Home Theater Subwoofers
Discover the best home theater subwoofers. Made in America.
www.powersoundaudio.com
The bigger you can accommodate?Which model would you recommend? There's a 15" as well
Top Rated Home Theater Subwoofers
Discover the best home theater subwoofers. Made in America.www.powersoundaudio.com
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I think it was like 280 USD per Sub for the F18 in 2019, but it was pre covid. Shipping cost has gone up quite a bit since then. Just write to them and get a quote. Not sure if they do it still but they did ship internationally.