• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!

Poll & discussion: UFOs / UAPs / Other Intelligent Life in Universe

Do you believe there are alien spacecraft that have visited earth’s atmosphere?

  • Yes.

  • No, and I don’t believe there is other intelligent life in the Universe.

  • No, but I do believe there is other intelligent life in the Universe.

  • I think there is too much scientific uncertainly to be confident in any opinion on this.

  • I am a space alien.


Results are only viewable after voting.
OP
S

StevenEleven

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Forum Donor
Joined
Dec 1, 2018
Messages
583
Likes
1,193
The holographic principle, another variant of string theory, which is apparently gaining ground and is said by some to have unique predictive value and the potential to get us to a Theory of Everything, postulates only two dimensions, FWIW, IIRC. The material world, including us, is said to be a holographic projection from a two-dimensional plane of pure information. Thus we would move from a materialist-reductionist based paradigm of reality to an information-based one, if I understand correctly.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

Lots to see on Youtube, textbooks on Amazon, scholarly articles and popular science articles in journals and magazines and on the web, etc., etc.

Apparently the math works well.

It also is said to be facilitating an accelerating convergence of computer science, physics, life sciences, life intelligence, artificial intelligence, etc. What this would mean for potential technologies, space travel or other forms of intelligent life if we got our arms around it, I have no idea at all. :)
 
Last edited:

Blumlein 88

Grand Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Feb 23, 2016
Messages
20,860
Likes
37,878
The holographic principle, another variant of string theory, which is apparently gaining ground fast and apparently has some unique predictive value and the potential to get us to a TOE, postulates only two dimensions, FWIW, IIRC. The material world, including us, is said to be a holographic projection from a two-dimensional plane of pure information.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holographic_principle

Apparently the math works a treat.

It also is said to be facilitating an accelerating convergence of computer science, physics, life intelligence, artificial intelligence, etc. What this would mean for space travel or other forms of intelligent life if we got our arms around it, I have no idea at all. :)
1622950602621.png
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,350
Likes
5,296
Location
Nashville
Some Math:
- Assume we have been generating radio waves for 100 years and will continue only for another 100 years before armageddon = 200 year window
- 200/4,200,000,000 = 0.000,000,05
- Earth is one of 8 planets
- Let's stipulate, in turn, our solar system is one in a million
- So 0.000,000,05 / 8,000,000 = 0.000,000,000,000,006 of the planets might overlap with us. (14 zeros)
- There are 21,600,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 planets in the universe (2 plus 23 zeros). https://skiesandscopes.com/how-many-planets/
- So there should be 36,000,000,000 planets with civilizations capable of EM technology (I might have erred by a few decimal places.)

So I suppose our technocratic civilization is both extremely rare and extremely common.

As far as FTL goes, how many dimensions are there? Apparently 10 is the answer, so that might be the clue how "they" are popping up here and there.
If we want to Dr Who the shite of the problem, I suppose, yeah. But string theory, or even M theory is but a mathematical speculation at this point (without even good solutions for its own equations), with no empirical evidence whatsoever to support it. Or, as Roy Scheider might have said: "You're gonna need a bigger collider."
 

617

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 18, 2019
Messages
2,441
Likes
5,399
Location
Somerville, MA
I would encourage people to watch the FLIR videos from the Florida incident. These objects are being seen by pilots repeatedly, they show up on Radar, and are seen both traveling in the air, stopping in the air, and going underwater.


This object in particular has an odd shape like a top rotating. The speed at which these objects accelerate and decelerate is incredible, see this calculation from this paper by some physicists at SUNY:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct.../33/1/26/pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wIzhBMrfBy4dBV1ZHK6Px

"With acceleration estimates in hand, we obtained a ballpark estimate of the power involved to
accelerate the UAV. Of course, this required an estimate of the mass of the UAV, which we did not have.
The UAV was estimated to be approximately the same size as an F/A-18 Super Hornet, which has a
weight of about 32, 000 lbs, corresponding to 14,550 kg. Since we want a minimal power estimate, we
took the acceleration as 5370 g and assumed that the UAV had a mass of 1000 kg. The UAV would
have then reached a maximum speed of about 46, 000 mph during the descent, or 60 times the speed
of sound, at which point the required power peaked at a shocking 1100 GW, which exceeds the total
nuclear power production of the United States by more than a factor of ten.


Another interesting fact not reported:
"The engagement lasted five minutes. With the Tic-Tac gone, the pilots turned their attention
toward the large object in the water, but the disturbance has disappeared. The two FastEagles returned
to the Nimitz, without sufficient fuel to attempt to pursue the Tic-Tac. On their way back, they received
a call from the Princeton that the Tic-Tac UAV was waiting precisely at their CAP point. Senior Chief
Day noted that this was surprising because those coordinates were predetermined and secret.
Given
that the CAP point was approximately R = 60 mi away, the probability of selecting the CAP point out
of all the locations within the 60 mile radius, to within a one mile resolution (slightly more than the
resolution of the radar system), is 0.0088%, (6) discounting the altitude. It appears that the Tic-Tac UAV
intentionally went to that location, although it is not clear how this would be possible.

Whether the UAPs are of extraterrestrial origin is not really the right question. We don't know. However, it doesn't look like the most ridiculous conclusion given what we've seen. These objects have physicality, being described as metallic, show up on radar and FLIR cameras as well as conventional cameras, but accelerate faster than any object with a reasonable mass could. The other two explanations are that they are made by humans, either the USA or Russia/China. It is very difficult to believe that the USA is technologically capable of making objects that move this fast, make no noise, and don't disturb the surface of the ocean as they move rapidly through it. The navy has said that these are not the product of a secret USA program (which could be disinformation, but still). This leaves Russia, China and ???. Russia has a GDP less than Italy, and doesn't seem capable of this kind of technology. China's latest J-20 Stealth aircraft is apparently 'inspired' by the F-35, and when one considers the state of China 50 years ago, it doesn't seem likely they were on the way to making these things.

What is worth observing is how the media portrays these events. Most TV news stations have turned this into a joke; I saw one which played a clip from Men in Black before showing government vetted video of UAP's in our airspace. Even in this thread we have people with strong opinions about the likelihood of this being aliens, or maser/laser holograms, or whatever. We need to ask ourselves what we would do if we found out there was a superior and uncommunicative intelligence in the universe. It is unsettling, but these are the facts that these videos force us to confront.

For fun, I would recommend reading up on the 1561 Nuremberg 'Celestial Phenomena' since it shows how people in Germany centuries ago struggled to describe what was clearly a spectacular and terrifying battle over their city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg
What I love about this account is the effort the writer puts into describing these events objectively, despite not having any of the language we have developed from science fiction movies and modern aircraft. The illustration is beautiful as well.
 

raistlin65

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 13, 2019
Messages
2,279
Likes
3,421
Location
Grand Rapids, MI
This is the problem... footage is always grainy and blurry, yet many people have high-res cameras on their phones and satellites can see insane detail.
JSmith

Yeah Elon says something like 'show me video that's at least iPhone 1 quality' LOL

Yes, while I'm engaged with an unidentified flying object that is accelerating at rates where I would be unconscious, and instantaneously changing direction in ways that my understanding of aeronautics cannot explain. And that has complete air superiority over me. I'm going to take my hands off the controls of my $50 to $100 million fighter jet to pull out my smartphone and start shooting videos of it. lol
 

JSmith

Master Contributor
Joined
Feb 8, 2021
Messages
5,254
Likes
13,603
Location
Algol Perseus
I'm going to take my hands off the controls of my $50 to $100 million fighter jet to pull out my smartphone and start shooting videos of it. lol
Autopilot? ;)

Anyway, comment was based on the public taking pics from ground level. There are some interesting explanations out there from lens aberrations to complete lunacy.



JSmith
 

phoenixdogfan

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
3,350
Likes
5,296
Location
Nashville
I would encourage people to watch the FLIR videos from the Florida incident. These objects are being seen by pilots repeatedly, they show up on Radar, and are seen both traveling in the air, stopping in the air, and going underwater.


This object in particular has an odd shape like a top rotating. The speed at which these objects accelerate and decelerate is incredible, see this calculation from this paper by some physicists at SUNY:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwixlPL_iILxAhVeKVkFHUqoC-0QFjAAegQIAxAD&url=https://www.mdpi.com/2504-3900/33/1/26/pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wIzhBMrfBy4dBV1ZHK6Px

"With acceleration estimates in hand, we obtained a ballpark estimate of the power involved to
accelerate the UAV. Of course, this required an estimate of the mass of the UAV, which we did not have.
The UAV was estimated to be approximately the same size as an F/A-18 Super Hornet, which has a
weight of about 32, 000 lbs, corresponding to 14,550 kg. Since we want a minimal power estimate, we
took the acceleration as 5370 g and assumed that the UAV had a mass of 1000 kg. The UAV would
have then reached a maximum speed of about 46, 000 mph during the descent, or 60 times the speed
of sound, at which point the required power peaked at a shocking 1100 GW, which exceeds the total
nuclear power production of the United States by more than a factor of ten.


Another interesting fact not reported:
"The engagement lasted five minutes. With the Tic-Tac gone, the pilots turned their attention
toward the large object in the water, but the disturbance has disappeared. The two FastEagles returned
to the Nimitz, without sufficient fuel to attempt to pursue the Tic-Tac. On their way back, they received
a call from the Princeton that the Tic-Tac UAV was waiting precisely at their CAP point. Senior Chief
Day noted that this was surprising because those coordinates were predetermined and secret.
Given
that the CAP point was approximately R = 60 mi away, the probability of selecting the CAP point out
of all the locations within the 60 mile radius, to within a one mile resolution (slightly more than the
resolution of the radar system), is 0.0088%, (6) discounting the altitude. It appears that the Tic-Tac UAV
intentionally went to that location, although it is not clear how this would be possible.

Whether the UAPs are of extraterrestrial origin is not really the right question. We don't know. However, it doesn't look like the most ridiculous conclusion given what we've seen. These objects have physicality, being described as metallic, show up on radar and FLIR cameras as well as conventional cameras, but accelerate faster than any object with a reasonable mass could. The other two explanations are that they are made by humans, either the USA or Russia/China. It is very difficult to believe that the USA is technologically capable of making objects that move this fast, make no noise, and don't disturb the surface of the ocean as they move rapidly through it. The navy has said that these are not the product of a secret USA program (which could be disinformation, but still). This leaves Russia, China and ???. Russia has a GDP less than Italy, and doesn't seem capable of this kind of technology. China's latest J-20 Stealth aircraft is apparently 'inspired' by the F-35, and when one considers the state of China 50 years ago, it doesn't seem likely they were on the way to making these things.

What is worth observing is how the media portrays these events. Most TV news stations have turned this into a joke; I saw one which played a clip from Men in Black before showing government vetted video of UAP's in our airspace. Even in this thread we have people with strong opinions about the likelihood of this being aliens, or maser/laser holograms, or whatever. We need to ask ourselves what we would do if we found out there was a superior and uncommunicative intelligence in the universe. It is unsettling, but these are the facts that these videos force us to confront.

For fun, I would recommend reading up on the 1561 Nuremberg 'Celestial Phenomena' since it shows how people in Germany centuries ago struggled to describe what was clearly a spectacular and terrifying battle over their city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg
What I love about this account is the effort the writer puts into describing these events objectively, despite not having any of the language we have developed from science fiction movies and modern aircraft. The illustration is beautiful as well.

"The UAV would
have then reached a maximum speed of about 46, 000 mph during the descent, or 60 times the speed
of sound, at which point the required power peaked at a shocking 1100 GW, which exceeds the total
nuclear power production of the United States by more than a factor of ten.
"

Soooo....if the object achieved a speed 60 times the speed of sound: (1) Did it make a sonic boom? (2) What kind of thermal stress would it have been under and how was it dissipated so it didn't burn up. (3) What kind of heat signature (infra red radiation) would it have to emit to dissipate said thermal stress, and was such a heat signature measured? And, oh yeah, wouln't it have heated up the air surrounding it to the point where it would have been bright as the sun?
 
Last edited:

Harmonie

Major Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
May 30, 2020
Messages
1,927
Likes
2,085
Location
France
You may find some answers or have some further questions by watching this

Chariots of the Gods


 
Last edited:

RayDunzl

Grand Contributor
Central Scrutinizer
Joined
Mar 9, 2016
Messages
13,254
Likes
17,228
Location
Riverview FL
We (humans) are "proof of concept" for extraterrestrial life.

But it would seem that the Universe is quite adept at keeping us segregated - space, time, speed, it gets messy.

I feel rather confident "they" are out there, or were, or will be, depending..

I don't expect any visitors from some hidden away place in our solar system.

It would be a stretch to imagine visitors from a star system non-local to us.

---

How fast is light?

Ignoring the idea that you can't reach the speed of light (which is remarkably slow in the grand scheme of things)...

1g acceleration is getting to 60 MPH in 2.73 seconds.

Continue that rate of acceleration for just under a year (Ithink it's 355 days), 24/7, and you hit the pokey speed of light

---

I saw, one time, something that I, something of an aero-enthusiast, could not identify.

In the living room, listening to music. A light in the sky through the window through the trees outside caught my eye. Orange color like those old sodium vapor streetlights on the street a few hundred yards behind the house. An odd color to see in the night sky.

1622956574369.png


Went outside.

Cold clear December night north of Houston, 1995.

Air traffic in/out of Houston Intercontinental plainly visible and clearly defined.

This whatever was a small bright (not brilliant) point with a fuzz around it, like a dim incandescent headlight going though foggy air, but there was no indication of foggy air.

It came from the east, not really in a straight line, and turned north when roughly overhead, slowly wandering across the sky, and finally behind the trees to the north near the horizon.

Binoculars didn't resolve any more detail.

Watched for 15-20 minutes, didn't hear sound, couldn't say how high it was other than it looked high, couldn't judge speed, not regular, nor erratic, direction wandering a little against the background stars.

Didn't really seem to change size with distance. All very odd to me.

No clue what it would have been.

---

Long list of sightings. Lots of "orange" in there

https://static1.squarespace.com/sta...1690f62/1560472408972/narcap_revised_tr-4.pdf
 
Last edited:

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,682
Likes
2,853
Yes, while I'm engaged with an unidentified flying object that is accelerating at rates where I would be unconscious, and instantaneously changing direction in ways that my understanding of aeronautics cannot explain. And that has complete air superiority over me. I'm going to take my hands off the controls of my $50 to $100 million fighter jet to pull out my smartphone and start shooting videos of it. lol

If you watch the 2nd Cmdr Fravor interview I shared above, he says his biggest regret is not flipping a simple switch to activate the video recording tech in his helmet. So no need to take out his phone, the tech was already there while he was chasing.
 
Last edited:

polmuaddib

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 1, 2020
Messages
479
Likes
854
If you watch the 2nd Cmdr Fravor interview I shared above, he says his biggest regret is not flipping a simple switch to activate the video recording tech in his helmet. So no need to take out his phone, the tech was already there while he was chasing.
You would think that all flights are recorded allways. Nevermind the aliens, I will be very surprised if I find out that you can turn off flight recorder for whatever reason. It's so cheap to record video and and if you are flying a multimillion aircraft, wouldn't you want a visual record if anything should happen?
 

Music1969

Major Contributor
Joined
Feb 19, 2018
Messages
4,682
Likes
2,853
You would think that all flights are recorded allways. Nevermind the aliens, I will be very surprised if I find out that you can turn off flight recorder for whatever reason. It's so cheap to record video and and if you are flying a multimillion aircraft, wouldn't you want a visual record if anything should happen?

I would assume today yes.

If you watch the interview there's more details on things/tech back then (2004)
 

Frank Dernie

Master Contributor
Forum Donor
Joined
Mar 24, 2016
Messages
6,460
Likes
15,841
Location
Oxfordshire
Given how big space is it seems extremely likely both that there must be life on many other planets and that, if they have the sort of lifetime we have, they will never visit us here.
Also, it would be unlikely to be a good thing. If we learn from the history of "discovery" here on planet earth the "visitors" would have the technology to take us over in the way European voyagers took over colonies and subjugated the locals, so not something we should wish for IMO.
Colonisation was robbery with violence on a national scale.
 
Last edited:

Frgirard

Major Contributor
Joined
Apr 2, 2021
Messages
1,737
Likes
1,044
To travel in space at high sample rate,
You need a great quantity of energy.
You must to masterise the relativistic effects.

Only God or Gods can traveled in space and they are been on earth.
 

audiofooled

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
Apr 1, 2021
Messages
534
Likes
594
I voted yes, but I believe that we are not ready yet to even know for sure. We could have been if there was more truth in what we learn and less selectivity in "what we must not". The way things are going, IMO we are light years away from even seeing the neighborhood, let alone meeting anyone...
 

pozz

Слава Україні
Forum Donor
Editor
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
4,036
Likes
6,828
I would encourage people to watch the FLIR videos from the Florida incident. These objects are being seen by pilots repeatedly, they show up on Radar, and are seen both traveling in the air, stopping in the air, and going underwater.


This object in particular has an odd shape like a top rotating. The speed at which these objects accelerate and decelerate is incredible, see this calculation from this paper by some physicists at SUNY:
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwixlPL_iILxAhVeKVkFHUqoC-0QFjAAegQIAxAD&url=https://www.mdpi.com/2504-3900/33/1/26/pdf&usg=AOvVaw2wIzhBMrfBy4dBV1ZHK6Px

"With acceleration estimates in hand, we obtained a ballpark estimate of the power involved to
accelerate the UAV. Of course, this required an estimate of the mass of the UAV, which we did not have.
The UAV was estimated to be approximately the same size as an F/A-18 Super Hornet, which has a
weight of about 32, 000 lbs, corresponding to 14,550 kg. Since we want a minimal power estimate, we
took the acceleration as 5370 g and assumed that the UAV had a mass of 1000 kg. The UAV would
have then reached a maximum speed of about 46, 000 mph during the descent, or 60 times the speed
of sound, at which point the required power peaked at a shocking 1100 GW, which exceeds the total
nuclear power production of the United States by more than a factor of ten.


Another interesting fact not reported:
"The engagement lasted five minutes. With the Tic-Tac gone, the pilots turned their attention
toward the large object in the water, but the disturbance has disappeared. The two FastEagles returned
to the Nimitz, without sufficient fuel to attempt to pursue the Tic-Tac. On their way back, they received
a call from the Princeton that the Tic-Tac UAV was waiting precisely at their CAP point. Senior Chief
Day noted that this was surprising because those coordinates were predetermined and secret.
Given
that the CAP point was approximately R = 60 mi away, the probability of selecting the CAP point out
of all the locations within the 60 mile radius, to within a one mile resolution (slightly more than the
resolution of the radar system), is 0.0088%, (6) discounting the altitude. It appears that the Tic-Tac UAV
intentionally went to that location, although it is not clear how this would be possible.

Whether the UAPs are of extraterrestrial origin is not really the right question. We don't know. However, it doesn't look like the most ridiculous conclusion given what we've seen. These objects have physicality, being described as metallic, show up on radar and FLIR cameras as well as conventional cameras, but accelerate faster than any object with a reasonable mass could. The other two explanations are that they are made by humans, either the USA or Russia/China. It is very difficult to believe that the USA is technologically capable of making objects that move this fast, make no noise, and don't disturb the surface of the ocean as they move rapidly through it. The navy has said that these are not the product of a secret USA program (which could be disinformation, but still). This leaves Russia, China and ???. Russia has a GDP less than Italy, and doesn't seem capable of this kind of technology. China's latest J-20 Stealth aircraft is apparently 'inspired' by the F-35, and when one considers the state of China 50 years ago, it doesn't seem likely they were on the way to making these things.

What is worth observing is how the media portrays these events. Most TV news stations have turned this into a joke; I saw one which played a clip from Men in Black before showing government vetted video of UAP's in our airspace. Even in this thread we have people with strong opinions about the likelihood of this being aliens, or maser/laser holograms, or whatever. We need to ask ourselves what we would do if we found out there was a superior and uncommunicative intelligence in the universe. It is unsettling, but these are the facts that these videos force us to confront.

For fun, I would recommend reading up on the 1561 Nuremberg 'Celestial Phenomena' since it shows how people in Germany centuries ago struggled to describe what was clearly a spectacular and terrifying battle over their city:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1561_celestial_phenomenon_over_Nuremberg
What I love about this account is the effort the writer puts into describing these events objectively, despite not having any of the language we have developed from science fiction movies and modern aircraft. The illustration is beautiful as well.
 
Top Bottom