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Ohm Walsh Speakers

dep14

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I had an old pair of the sound cylinders for a while, that led to a pair of upgraded 5000's.

I enjoyed my time with them. They do a lot right. Quite the conundrum as when you look at how they are built and assembled inside the cans, it does leave a lot to be desired. They use a decent tweeter, and a custom driver as I understand it. The 5000's have a built-in 4 band EQ, which actually worked quite well.

The crossovers are sort of point to point, as they used pretty inexpensive caps, are hot glued together ( not a pre-printed circuit board).

They use a cardboard baffle on the inside that literally is cut with scissors and shaped by hand, and each one is going to be a bit different as a result. They make no sense as the tweeter fires into the can, and then the corners of the "Grill" are thicker than the rest of the grill due to how it's made.

Yet, when I listened to them they did a lot right, though not everything. I keep asking myself, what if an extra 30 minutes was spent on each pair for a more consistent build, clean them up a bit, use a slightly better cap, and figure out a way to make a consistent baffle.

But, I am on the lookout for a used pair for a second system/room for kicks.

I would love to see how they measured just for kicks.
 

i_timotheus

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I have owned both the F's and the 5's. I had overdriven the F's in party mode and had fried the voice coil in one channel. Ohm took them and gave me a 50% discount on 5's which I splurged on rosewood veneer. The 5's certainly were more dynamic with a more robust low end, but I preferred the F's even though they were somewhat spl limited. Frankly in a medium-sized room and not going to 11 the F's fit most people's requirements. They excelled at smaller scale or jazz club , female voice was stunning, with that "Still Harry After All These Years" on Sheffield would throw a dramatic holographic soundstage, and would certainly get the house jumping. There is an ad on the bay for a unique stacked quad setup of the F's for 8 or 9K that probably would be the bee's knees. There is another related design by Dale Harder of HHR-Exotic Speakers, they are priced rather dear, however (see pic). I still have not heard anything that has stunned me as much as the F's other than an uber Martin Logan setup that was way, way, beyond my means. Proof is in the listening, and as someone mentioned above maybe you can get an audition from a fellow ASR member.


TLS-Family.jpg
 

Bob Klass

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Anyone have any comments on Ohm Walsh speakers?
I've had a pair of Ohm Walsh 4's for a decade and a half or so (like Harry Bosch's but a little bigger). Got them second hand for $90 with the warning that one had a problem. Indeed, one speaker has a problem - it will rattle at certain frequencies, and otherwise sound wonderful. It is a strange, very solid sounding rattle. The other of the pair is fine.

The were forum questions about omnidirectional design, etc. These had large cans on top, and there was material to baffle the back part somewhat. There are a few tweeters in there somewhere - pointing up, if I remember correctly - they are hard to see). They have ports on the bottom. I am not a huge fan of ports, but it may be the best sounding one I have owned.

They sound very nice (even the rattle isn't that bad). They are not directional and you get a very good stereo image. They have a smooth, flat response all the way into some deep bass. You want them in a medium to large room. They are good audiophile speakers for any style of music, and they weren't picky about amplification.

Unfortunately, I considered that rattle a fatal flaw. I used one speaker as a center channel a while back and in an unbalanced pair, but otherwise they have just been collecting dust around here. I know Ohm will fix these if you are willing to pay, but these cabinets and grills are a little rough so I haven't sprung for it.
 

JustJones

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I've had a pair of Ohm Walsh 4's for a decade and a half or so (like Harry Bosch's but a little bigger). Got them second hand for $90 with the warning that one had a problem. Indeed, one speaker has a problem - it will rattle at certain frequencies, and otherwise sound wonderful. It is a strange, very solid sounding rattle. The other of the pair is fine.

The were forum questions about omnidirectional design, etc. These had large cans on top, and there was material to baffle the back part somewhat. There are a few tweeters in there somewhere - pointing up, if I remember correctly - they are hard to see). They have ports on the bottom. I am not a huge fan of ports, but it may be the best sounding one I have owned.

They sound very nice (even the rattle isn't that bad). They are not directional and you get a very good stereo image. They have a smooth, flat response all the way into some deep bass. You want them in a medium to large room. They are good audiophile speakers for any style of music, and they weren't picky about amplification.

Unfortunately, I considered that rattle a fatal flaw. I used one speaker as a center channel a while back and in an unbalanced pair, but otherwise they have just been collecting dust around here. I know Ohm will fix these if you are willing to pay, but these cabinets and grills are a little rough so I haven't sprung for it.

I had a pair of the 2000's that had distortion/ rattle sound in one speaker. I called the company and they said take the can off the top and see if the wire connection has worked loose. Sure enough it had gotten loose but tight enough to still work, I pushed it back together and that fixed it.
 

Bob Klass

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When I get around to playing with these again I will try to open the bad one and check. I know those cans are well sealed, but I think it's just to prevent more rattles.

Even with the rattle I enjoyed these for a little while back in 2005 when I was redoing my listening area (basement) after a flood. Placement was non-critical and the Ohm's were easy to move around (they are on wheels). I remember listening to the entire Firesign Theatre catalog (but some music too) while I laid new flooring (1200 square feet of it). After that I got back into my electrostatics (Acoustat 3 and later some big Martin Logans).

Thanks for the tip!
 

Phaelon56

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I actually have gotten the impression that most people who have actually heard them love them. That’s why I wish I could find a pair to listen to. They don’t really sell to Europe, though. I also find them objectionable visually. On the other hand, I think it’s actually the single most raved about speaker I know of, from people who have actually heard them.

The particular reason I would like to hear them is that the idea of a speaker that sounds great all over the room is very compelling. After all, if we’re going to only listen from specific listening positions for one person then it’s almost like we’d actually be better off just using headphones. To me a large part of using speakers instead of headphones is that it makes music social. But it’s not exactly social when only one listening position sounds good. Especially while entertaining groups of people (e.g., dinner parties etc).
I don't know where you are located. I'm, in Raleigh NC, and am a happy owner of a nicely restored pair of Ohm F's. They were restored by legendary speaker rebuilder Bill Legall of Millersound (Philly PA area.) I have owned them for 11 years, and each time I did an amp upgrade thy sang even more sweetly. Now driving them with a McIntosh MC452 at 450 wpc - finally the power they really need (yes - they are THAT power hungry. All in our household should have had their second COVID shot by three weeks from now, and by mid April we can welcome guests into the house again. If you are close to or pass through this area on occasion - you are welcome to stop here for a listen. It is a very natural organic sound - untiring and with a big soundstage. Folks who like crystalline highs, super loud rock, or pinpoint imaging with a narrow sweet spot.... tend to prefer other speakers. If you like a sound that is well balanced and feels like "you are there" from almost anywhere in the room - then a restored pair of F's is worth looking into. ALL used F's need restoration if it was not already done. That service can be done to the highest standards by only a few shops in the US. I don't think Millersound even works on the F's any longer because it is too time consuming. The Speaker Exchange in Tampa does the service, has a good reputation, and also sells the parts for people with the skill and patience to do it themselves. If the cones themselves are in good shape - they can be restored. If the cones are shot - forget it.
 
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Phaelon56

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In Europe I imagine you could find the German Physiks speaker which has their version of the Walsh driver.

https://www.german-physiks.com/
I think a more apt comparison in terms of the overall design might be the NBL Radialstrahker. They have a tall vertical assembly that has some sort of foil ribbons that curve from the top down to the bottom of the center assembly in a long shallow arc. Some of them also have a base module. The cheap version is about $15,000 to $19,000 per pair at retail, but the the big ones are closer to $60,000 per pair. I've read reviews of them that were absolutely glowing. I'm sure they're more efficient than the original Walsh drivers that were used in the in the models A and F (those two were actually of a slightly different design but that's a topic for a different thread or another reply. I wanted a pair of the model F since I first heard them in 1973, in a Tech HiFi showroom, then heard them for a second time a few years later in a very small dorm room in a cloud of smoke. in a threat I recently read, but I don't think it was here, someone kept insisting that they had the lifespan of a housefly. That couldn't be further from the truth. There was a design issue with the original production run that caused them to fry when they were driven too hard, yet they were very demanding speakers that required a high current amp. Phase Linear was the most popular choice to drive them properly. That issue was corrected. The most significant challenges to restoring a pair, assuming the voice coils are okay and that the drivers are intact, is related to the rubber spider assembly, the foam surround, and most significantly, carefully removing and replacing the sound absorbent clay type material that was used on the inside of the upper third of the cone, which I believe is made of titanium foil. that clay dried out over the years. It has to be removed with great caution, and a suitable replacement material applied. there's a material whose name escapes me at the moment but it's something like mortite - a sort of insulating putty that has similar characteristics to the clay that was originally used. I'm not sure what Bill Legall used on mine for this purpose, as if you remove the cone from the cabinet, there is a securely attached piece of rather stiff woven cloth that prevents you from seeing inside or getting inside without removing it. I believe that the more common practice is to use Dynamat. It's a dense self-adhesive black foam material that is frequently used in custom audio installations to attach to metal areas and reduce resonance and sound reflections.I think Bill also had some sort of technique of reinforcing the spiders so that they don't sag as much over time. this is all hearsay, and I'm not trying to put words into his or anyone else's mouth. I do know that if they're going to be stored for a couple of years and not used, the recommended practice is to remove the cones and invert them so the weight of the cone is not pulling on them.

Any pair that has not been restored when they're purchased will require restoration - that's a guarantee. Mine have continued to improve in sound characteristics since I've owned them, simply because I have improved and increase the power of amplification, gotten a much better preamp, and also finally have them in a room that provides adequate unfettered space between the drivers and the side and rear walls. Presently driving them with a McIntosh MC452 amplifier with a C2300 preamp on the front end. The centers of the cones are roughly 7 ft apart, and I have about 4 ft clearance between the top of the cones and the side and rear walls. The custom stands that came with mine, which appear to be Factory built but that cannot be verified, raises them 14 inches off the floor. I've tried them with and without and really prefer having them on the risers. If anyone reading this has a pair and is interested, I can provide a PDF I made up with some photos and measurements showing exactly how the risers are built.

I owned two different pairs of the Ohm Walsh 2 before acquiring the model F. I thought they were terrific speakers, just slightly more directional than the F. But they use a downward firing woofer, but the tweeter/midrange is pointed at a 45° angle toward the listening position. There is a felt material inside the back of those cylindrical metal cans that reduces the amount of reflection to the rear. they can be driven quite nicely with 80 Watts or 100 watts of clean power, but they will sound a lot better with 150 wpc. I paid $200 for the first pair and $250 for the second pair, and sold each pair for about $300. For a used vintage speaker, they punch way above their weight class relative to their price, and they have some sort of treated fabric surrounds that don't rot out.

As for the sound characteristics of the truek omni-directional design of the F: you either love it or you don't. My wife and I sit on the couch for serious listening, but haven't 8 ft wide archway going into our dining and kitchen area. Given a bit of volume, the sense of a true stereo sound stage anywhere in the kitchen or dining or living room areas is always present. They don't have profoundly deep and super powerful pace, but I have found uncertain material that has very significant base, they will only show their true colors when they are driven by lots of clean power. A friend of mine who had not been into audio for many years, got inspired by what I was doing. He built one of the Bob Latino design modern day Dynaco ST79 amps, converted an old iMac into a music server in his basement, and then used Wi-Fi to an Apple Airport Express, which received the signals from FLAC files, functioned as the DAC, and handed the signal directly to the speakers. he used his iPhone to select which files to play and also as a way to control volume. The sound was absolutely fantastic. He really preferred it to my setup which, at the time, was a McIntosh MX-120 and MC2395 amp (200 wpc.) He had repaired and restored his 1970s vintage Phase Acoustic three-way tower speakers. The Tweeter is in a separate assembly that sits on the top of the tower and is a bit further back than the two other drivers, and is also open on the back. it is claimed to be a face coherent transmission line design, and I'll have to say that the sound was fantastic. I took a half dozen of my favorite CDs with me, we ripped them FLAC files, and played them on his system for the sake of comparison. I think about a third of the dozen or so songs we evaluated sounded better on my system, about 1/3 sounded better on his system, and the remaining third sounded equally good on both - to my ears. He had a strong preference for his speakers under all conditions, because he likes pinpoint directionality, which the Phase Acoustic speakers offer. I can live with less of it because I prefer the immersive sense of organic wholeness, and the ability to move around to different listening positions and hear everything more or less equally. I've even spent some time sitting in an armchair in between my speakers, and it was quite enjoyable. By the way, his speakers were designed and built by a guy named Phil Clements. Phil was based in Canada and had a terrible fire about 3 years into producing that brand, which put him under financially for a while. He reemerged with his own name on the company, making Clements loudspeakers. not sure what happened with that company but it also folded after a few years, but he has been back in business for a while with an outfit called Solus Audio - whose speakers are said to be quite nice.
 

Nuprin

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I don't know where you are located. I'm, in Raleigh NC, and am a happy owner of a nicely restored pair of Ohm F's. They were restored by legendary speaker rebuilder Bill Legall of Millersound (Philly PA area.) I have owned them for 11 years, and each time I did an amp upgrade thy sang even more sweetly. Now driving them with a McIntosh MC452 at 450 wpc - finally the power they really need (yes - they are THAT power hungry. All in our household should have had their second COVID shot by three weeks from now, and by mid April we can welcome guests into the house again. If you are close to or pass through this area on occasion - you are welcome to stop here for a listen. It is a very natural organic sound - untiring and with a big soundstage. Folks who like crystalline highs, super loud rock, or pinpoint imaging with a narrow sweet spot.... tend to prefer other speakers. If you like a sound that is well balanced and feels like "you are there" from almost anywhere in the room - then a restored pair of F's is worth looking into. ALL used F's need restoration if it was not already done. That service can be done to the highest standards by only a few shops in the US. I don't think Millersound even works on the F's any longer because it is too time consuming. The Speaker Exchange in Tampa does the service, has a good reputation, and also sells the parts for people with the skill and patience to do it themselves. If the cones themselves are in good shape - they can be restored. If the cones are shot - forget it.


New to the forum and first post here but I've recently been reading up on Ohm Walsh speakers. Since moving to a new home, I am having trouble getting good bass in the 13"x17"x10" room. There's a 15-20db suckout at 100hz-120hz that has been very difficult to solve and wondering if something like Ohm speakers placed closer to the walls will help? My current speakers are almost 4ft out into the 13' deep room in order to get it to sound good.

My amp is the new MSB Technology S202, so pretty high current and should be up to the task. My Evolution Acoustics Micro One speakers have fantastic imaging but if forces you to have your head in a vice position to get that precise imaging. I'm not sure if I've head a "you are there" sound or would even recognize it to be different that what my current system sounds like. Before diving into a bunch of room treatment options, I was curious about this brand. BTW, I am also in Raleigh so hello to a fellow audiophile.
 

Phaelon56

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New to the forum and first post here but I've recently been reading up on Ohm Walsh speakers. Since moving to a new home, I am having trouble getting good bass in the 13"x17"x10" room. There's a 15-20db suckout at 100hz-120hz that has been very difficult to solve and wondering if something like Ohm speakers placed closer to the walls will help? My current speakers are almost 4ft out into the 13' deep room in order to get it to sound good.

My amp is the new MSB Technology S202, so pretty high current and should be up to the task. My Evolution Acoustics Micro One speakers have fantastic imaging but if forces you to have your head in a vice position to get that precise imaging. I'm not sure if I've head a "you are there" sound or would even recognize it to be different that what my current system sounds like. Before diving into a bunch of room treatment options, I was curious about this brand. BTW, I am also in Raleigh so hello to a fellow audiophile.

Hey There Nuprin -

My speakers are pretty fantastic in the mid-range, but a teeny bit rolled off in the highs (or so it seems, but this is a tradeoff for omni-directional sound - I think.) Bass does not seem prodigious until I put on the right material and turn up the volume. With the right material bass can be intense. The fact that the sweet spot is enormous is a huge plus for me. I sit or stand all over the place when music is playing, and when my wife and I listen - it's together on the sofa, where you need a wide sweet spot. My F's do better with about 4 feet on all sides. Current Ohm models are, IMO, a bit on the pricey side for what they offer. I *think* that some of the older models that are large full range (e.g. Ohm Walsh 4 or 4XO, 4 or 5XO, or the 4000 or 5000 series (a bit newer than the 4 and 5) can do better if they are closer to a back wall. Like the smaller model 2 (which I have owned in the past,) they have a cylindrical perforated black metal can on top, under the grill cover. Inside it contains the main woofer/driver, which fires down into the cabinet and radiates sound out its open back, and also a tweeter that is mounted at a 45 degree angle towards the sweet spot. On the rear of the can there is foam inside to reduce ringing reflections from the metal, and a piece of felt on the rear that block s sound form going directly towards the back wall. Most or all of these models will perform best if 4 feet from rear or side walls, but will still deliver a big soundstage and wide sweet spot if only 1 to 2 feet from rear wall. I found the that the model 2 (smaller but similar design to the 4/4000 and 5/5000 series) did really well even if as little as 18" to 24" from rear wall. The model 2's were the biggest selling model ever for Ohm, and can typically be found used for $200 to $400 per pair. You should visit our house to hear the F's - I can even push them back so the cones are only a couple of feet from the real wall. People either love or hate the omni sound, but its advantage is precisely what tightly imaging speakers can't offer. I had my second shot two weeks ago. and my wife and niece (who lives with us) get theirs this Saturday. I am open to having a fellow audiophile / music lover over to check out the sound and spin a few tunes, once we are into early May. If you like good coffee and espresso - even better - our kitchen has the best in Raleigh. We are in North Raleigh - Lantern Square near Sandy Forks and Six Forks Roads.
 

Nuprin

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Hey There Nuprin -

My speakers are pretty fantastic in the mid-range, but a teeny bit rolled off in the highs (or so it seems, but this is a tradeoff for omni-directional sound - I think.) Bass does not seem prodigious until I put on the right material and turn up the volume. With the right material bass can be intense. The fact that the sweet spot is enormous is a huge plus for me. I sit or stand all over the place when music is playing, and when my wife and I listen - it's together on the sofa, where you need a wide sweet spot. My F's do better with about 4 feet on all sides. Current Ohm models are, IMO, a bit on the pricey side for what they offer. I *think* that some of the older models that are large full range (e.g. Ohm Walsh 4 or 4XO, 4 or 5XO, or the 4000 or 5000 series (a bit newer than the 4 and 5) can do better if they are closer to a back wall. Like the smaller model 2 (which I have owned in the past,) they have a cylindrical perforated black metal can on top, under the grill cover. Inside it contains the main woofer/driver, which fires down into the cabinet and radiates sound out its open back, and also a tweeter that is mounted at a 45 degree angle towards the sweet spot. On the rear of the can there is foam inside to reduce ringing reflections from the metal, and a piece of felt on the rear that block s sound form going directly towards the back wall. Most or all of these models will perform best if 4 feet from rear or side walls, but will still deliver a big soundstage and wide sweet spot if only 1 to 2 feet from rear wall. I found the that the model 2 (smaller but similar design to the 4/4000 and 5/5000 series) did really well even if as little as 18" to 24" from rear wall. The model 2's were the biggest selling model ever for Ohm, and can typically be found used for $200 to $400 per pair. You should visit our house to hear the F's - I can even push them back so the cones are only a couple of feet from the real wall. People either love or hate the omni sound, but its advantage is precisely what tightly imaging speakers can't offer. I had my second shot two weeks ago. and my wife and niece (who lives with us) get theirs this Saturday. I am open to having a fellow audiophile / music lover over to check out the sound and spin a few tunes, once we are into early May. If you like good coffee and espresso - even better - our kitchen has the best in Raleigh. We are in North Raleigh - Lantern Square near Sandy Forks and Six Forks Roads.

I live near Leesville and Strickland so not that far away so I appreciate the offer and would love to take you up on it. I am also getting my second shot on Friday as well sometime in early May sounds great. Funny you mention coffee...I run a cafe in Raleigh that serves Black & White Roasters and Counter Culture so might possibly just a little familiar with that :) Will bring some of our custom roasted coffee from B&W for you to try. BTW, are you using any streaming services? If not, I can bring some of my cds. Once we're closer to that time frame, let's touch base and figure out a good day and time that works for you. You can shoot me an email directly to [email protected] if that's easier.

Thanks,

Mike
 

Nuprin

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Yes, sorry in ft, not inches. lol 17' is the room width. I tried the 13' wall but there is no base in the (possible) seating position. And I mean it's a total null there.
 

JustJones

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I had the Ohm 2000 and they always had good bass. Not sure about older models but the 2000's I had there is a switch behind the binding post cup. Remove the cup if you have to much bass move the switch to - add bass move to +.
 

stevenswall

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There is another, somewhat unorthodox technique for getting a wide sweet spot, which works with controlled-pattern speakers.

For an off-centerline listener, the NEAR speaker now "wins" ARRIVAL TIME, BUT because of the aggressive toe-in (and radiation pattern shape), the FAR speaker "wins" INTENSITY. Here is a photo taken at an audio show. As you can see, from the listening position where the photo was taken, the listener is well off-axis of the near speaker but on-axis of the far speaker. The far speaker is actually louder:

View attachment 79630
Photo by Eric Franklin Shook of Part-Time Audiophile.

The two localization mechanisms (arrival time and intensity) approximately balance one another out, and you get an enjoyable spread of the instruments even way off to the side where this photo was taken from.

The KEY to this working well is, the output of that near speaker must fall off SMOOTHLY and RAPIDLY as we move off-axis. This technique will not work with most loudspeakers.

Do you know of any speakers measured on ASR that you would say have a rapid and smooth roll off? My Genelec 8260 monitors seem to have wide dispersion with even, slow roll off, though many here talk about Genelec monitors having a narrow dispersion patters (usually referencing "The Ones" which the 8260 is similar to.) Here's their dispersion: (Too wide I'm guessing? I notice the effect you describe, and I do toe them in aggressively, though it doesn't seem as impressive as many describe it.)

1617824859809.png
 

JustJones

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The 5000 series there are switches to conform the speaker to your room.
 

Duke

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Do you know of any speakers measured on ASR that you would say have a rapid and smooth roll off?

The Dutch & Dutch 8c, measured by Erin, looks like a good candidate. Its pattern looks to me like it's a little wider than ideal for time/intensity tradeoff setup, but I think it will still work quite well.

There may be some JBLs which do it, and the Klipsch Heresy looks like its pattern control is pretty good for this. Ime time/intensity trading works well with speakers whose radiation patterns are about 90 degrees wide (-6 dB @ 45 degrees off-axis horizontally). Based on things Earl Geddes has written, it ought to work well with speakers whose radiation patterns are as narrow as 60 degrees (-6 dB @ 30 degrees off-axis horizontally) but I haven't tried anything that narrow yet.

The day may come when I make a ballpark 90-degree-pattern (over the top half of the spectrum at least) speaker small enough to be practical for Amir or Erin to measure. I have such "on paper" but there are other projects in line ahead of it.
 
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JustJones

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The Genelec 8351b works with time intensity trading by setting them with aggressive toe in. I have no idea about the other "Ones".
 

Phaelon56

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If anyone reading this thread is in the North Carolina triangle area, and wants to audition a pair of properly restored FS that have plenty of power behind them in an adequately sized room, you are welcome to come visit me in North Raleigh at a mutually agreeable time. My speakers were restored by Bill Legalll of Millersound (whose reputation precedes him,) and powered by a McIntosh MC452 amplifier with a tube based C2300 on the front end. I think mine sound fantastic. Agreed that they don't play at particularly high SPL's, and don't have the pinpoint imaging of many conventional box speakers but they have an incredible Sound Stage and a holographic presentation that is unusual.
 
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