New low-cost DSP platform in development

[bachatero]

Starting with that duo-buildroot-sdk-v2 and following into the host-tools repo it uses, plus a few others under milkv-duo, the general lack of documentation and license files isn't encouraging. https://milkv.io/docs/duo/getting-started/buildroot-sdk is a lot more useful, with https://buildroot.org/ for upstream docs. If you're looking at making this something non-technical people can use reliably you should probably look at an A/B update process like RAUC. There's an example for Pi CM4, 4 & 5 integrating RAUC with Buildroot. I've not checked whether any of these keep the rootfs read-only, but I would hope so for reliability.

I was wondering what the difference was between the two. It looks like the v2 simply has extra junk for ARM which isn't relevant to us. They actually give the steps to manually build the Buildroot which is great for the custom crafting, and RAUC shouldn't be too hard either. There's hope!

 

[bachatero]

What is everybody's budget for a DSP appliance like the kind I'm designing?

I am NOT going to disclose my target price so that you don't get biased/have false hopes because anything could change right now.

 

[Cogito]

What is everybody's budget for a DSP appliance like the kind I'm designing?

I am NOT going to disclose my target price so that you don't get biased/have false hopes because anything could change right now.

$199.95

 

[Djsedaw]

What is everybody's budget for a DSP appliance like the kind I'm designing?

I am NOT going to disclose my target price so that you don't get biased/have false hopes because anything could change right now.

99 squid

 

[Esprit]

199,99€

 

[antcollinet]

What is everybody's budget for a DSP appliance like the kind I'm designing?

I am NOT going to disclose my target price so that you don't get biased/have false hopes because anything could change right now.

You are saying it is a low cost system - it shouldn't cost more than a Pi2zero running Camilla DSP. This is about £45 if using external USB based audio IO.

 

[bachatero]

You are saying it is a low cost system - it shouldn't cost more than a Pi2zero running Camilla DSP. This is about £45 if using external USB based audio IO.

Then in that case we already know the price: $12 for a Duo S + $5 for a microSD + $5 for a plastic case + $10 for a power adapter = $32 in total

 

[voodooless]

Then in that case we already know the price: $12 for a Duo S + $5 for a microSD + $5 for a plastic case + $10 for a power adapter = $32 in total

That will give you low-fidelity 16-bit audio. It would at least need a halfway decent DAC to be feasible.

 

[bachatero]

That will give you low-fidelity 16-bit audio. It would at least need a halfway decent DAC to be feasible.

I never claimed it would be using the built in audio, just whatever's plugged into USB which could be anything so it's not included in the price.

 

[voodooless]

Given that the pi2zero is about $20, that isn't a massive difference, plus, I can use that today.

 

[bachatero]

But you can't use any effect you want and you still need external hardware and a case to make it look nice, which is too much fuss for many people including me.

 

[voodooless]

But you can't use any effect you want and you still need external hardware and a case to make it look nice, which is too much fuss for many people including me.

Well, you haven't fixed any of these issues yet either, and I would not know what effects I would need that the Pi could not do right now with CamilaDSP (except maybe not fast enough for a gazillion FIR taps)?

Do you have any examples of the kinds of effects you'd like to implement?

 

[ahofer]

I'm getting fed up with how there are absolutely zero (0) options in the market for a cheap and simple DSP device that can just apply whatever effect I want and be done with it. So, I'm starting development of the software base of what may in the future become a complete DSP system for audio, and also other things related to that.

Here are the gory details:

• It will run on cheap and newly available RISC-V platforms like this one: https://milkv.io/duo-s
• The software will support any DSP effect in the special language derived from RISC-V assembly, not just the baby ones mandated for things like miniDSP nor the bespoke graphical ones for Sigma boards
• The software will be free and open-source and the hardware cheap, like really cheap (compared to the competition like miniDSP)
• The overall experience might be similar to HiFiBerry, but with less emphasis on music playback and more on raw DSP
• The first available hardware could be the Duo S board above just connected to a couple 3.5mm jacks using the built in ADC/DAC
• It currently only barely exists in a GitHub repo that I won't share right now, but is out there if you know what to search for
• Did I mention that it'll be cheap?

Tell me your thoughts on this idea! I'm not sure what everybody else wants or needs, and right now is the best time to figure that stuff out.

Sounds like a great idea. Can it incorporate streaming (like RopieeXL)? And some kind of loudness hack to compete with RME?

In terms of effects, could it add configurable harmonic distortion like Deltawave?

 

[bachatero]

Well, you haven't fixed any of these issues yet either, and I would not know what effects I would need that the Pi could not do right now with CamilaDSP (except maybe not fast enough for a gazillion FIR taps)?

Do you have any examples of the kinds of effects you'd like to implement?

Here's some options right from EasyEffects:

• Autogain
• Compressor
• Crossfeed
• Deesser
• Gate
• Multiband Compressor
• Pitch
• Reverb
• Noise Reducer
• "Stereo Tools" (flip phase, pan, etc)

 

[bachatero]

Sounds like a great idea. Can it incorporate streaming (like RopieeXL)? And some kind of loudness hack to compete with RME?

In terms of effects, could it add configurable harmonic distortion like Deltawave?

There is no reason these all features couldn't be added except for Roon because that's closed source and they don't support RISC-V.

 

[olieb]

Well, you haven't fixed any of these issues yet either, and I would not know what effects I would need that the Pi could not do right now with CamilaDSP (except maybe not fast enough for a gazillion FIR taps)?

Here's some options right from EasyEffects:

• Autogain
• Compressor
• Crossfeed
• Deesser
• Gate
• Multiband Compressor
• Pitch
• Reverb
• Noise Reducer
• "Stereo Tools" (flip phase, pan, etc)

I try to follow this thread, though most of the technical stuff is way over my head. So my question is perhaps somewhat silly but I am somewhat confused.
These effects are not available in CamillaDSP (as mentioned above)?

 

[voodooless]

These effects are not available in CamillaDSP (as mentioned above)?

Some are, like the (Multiband) compressor, and stereo tools. Crossfeed can be done as well. The others are more exotic and have a more niche use case, which is probably the reason they are not implemented. Nothing is fundamentally stopping anyone from implementing them as well in CamilaDSP.

Do a quick poll for all of the possible effects and processing to see which ones are actually valuable to users, that will help nail down the order of implementation.

 

[Soniclife]

There is no reason these all features couldn't be added except for Roon because that's closed source and they don't support RISC-V.

If you can add Chromecast or airplay roon users can use that.

 

[olieb]

Some are, like the (Multiband) compressor, and stereo tools. Crossfeed can be done as well.

And so can reverb, right?

The others are more exotic and have a more niche use case, which is probably the reason they are not implemented. Nothing is fundamentally stopping anyone from implementing them as well in CamilaDSP.

Do a quick poll for all of the possible effects and processing to see which ones are actually valuable to users, that will help nail down the order of implementation.

I understand the effects mentioned (except "gate", which I just looked up), my problem is with software design, hardware specifics and data protocols. I was just puzzled by the claim that these effects were not available in CamillaDSP.
For my potential use cases (EQ, room correction, bass management, crossovers and crossfeed with HRTF) I see nothing missing in Camilla.
Who needs a deesser and would at the same time implement that with a low cost device?

 

[bachatero]

There is still the problem of no low-cost integrated appliance. There's miniDSP but their cheapest complete option is $225, and the Hifiberry options are around that much too and neither of these options support both digital/analog in/out.