Measurements & What We Hear?

[escksu]

Not sure I agree, but I'm guessing our views are actually similar . In my view, sight drastically alters what we "hear". It doesn't alter the sound waves entering our ear(which I think is what you're saying), but it does alter the processing of those waves by the brain. Same sound waves processed differently are "heard" differently.

This I fully agree. Watching + listening to a performance does have a different experience compared to just listening. To me (solely myself), its the experience that really matters.

 

[preload]

Plus, I have a math degree so I do get the concept of digital audio fully and make comparisons of the various formats, and the sound of each, daily.

You should write to the dean of your maths program and ask him/her to make sure to include the scientific method in the future curriculum lest future graduates of your school come here asking what a "control" is.

 

[audio2design]

So I would suggest to YOU that you record performances of anyone at 24/192; 24/96; and redbook than tell me about instrument placements in the acoustic space and where the seem to appear in that space?

In exactly the same.place in all cases. We only need about 4-5Khz for placement in all dimensions. Timing will be near perfect in all cases.

 

[Geert]

In exactly the same.place in all cases. We only need about 4-5Khz for placement in all dimensions. Timing will be near perfect in all cases.

Correct, as the ITD mechanism has a cutoff frequency of 1,5kHz. Try localising a high frequency tone.

 

[BluesDaddy]

Not sure I agree, but I'm guessing our views are actually similar . In my view, sight drastically alters what we "hear". It doesn't alter the sound waves entering our ear(which I think is what you're saying), but it does alter the processing of those waves by the brain. Same sound waves processed differently are "heard" differently.

Like I said, I think we're saying the same thing, but just differently. Probably, comes down to how one defines "hearing".

Going back to the food analogy you quoted(and why I thought I'd clarify the "hearing" thing), the same exact food item will "taste" better depending on where the brain thinks it came from. Penn and Teller "Bullshit" was a great show I used to love. The "Organic" and "Water" episodes are great at showing this. Same exact food "tastes" different with different brain processing applied.

I think we're coming at from two different poles but arriving at the same place. My intent was sensory impairment. Lack of sight does NOT result in hearing impairment, while lack of smell absolutely DOES result in the impairment of the ability of taste. Obviously sight changes the perceptual experience, but does not impact the objective reality. This would be precisely why double blind controls are used in taste testing foods and drinks, in pharmaceutical development, and should be part of any claims of audio "enhancement". Audiophool companies don't advertise on the basis of "enhanced perceptual experience", they make objective, factual, claims about their products using subjective anecdotes and pseudo science gobbledygook. The same for those who purchase said items. Now, if someone wants to claim that purchasing $10,000 worth of cables enhances their "perceptual experience" while NOT claiming those cables objectively change what is coming out of their speakers (granting all the usual disclaimers), I've no truck with that. I like to drink my bourbon out of cut crystal tumblers and eat holiday meals off of fine china - but I don't claim the bourbon or meal tastes differently because of that.

 

[audio2design]

QUOTE="Geert, post: 792583, member: 14221"]Correct, as the ITD mechanism has a cutoff frequency of 1,5kHz. Try localising a high frequency tone.[/QUOTE]

You can just not as well. That is ILD.

 

[Frgirard]

Obviously sight changes the perceptual experience, but does not impact the objective reality.

The objective reality nobody know here. The bee or the squirrel have their reality. The objective reality in the quantum world who know ?
Our vision is a brain construction. Luckily we all have the same brain mechanisms

We listen not only with our auditory architecture but with our history, our preferences, our beliefs and our certainties. The ABX is the only way found in audio to inhibit factors that can influence hearing.
The lying tests are also a good opportunity to see that we are listening to our little audiophile demon.

 

[BluesDaddy]

The objective reality nobody know here. The bee or the squirrel have their reality. The objective reality in the quantum world who know ?
Our vision is a brain construction. Luckily we all have the same brain mechanisms

We listen not only with our auditory architecture but with our history, our preferences, our beliefs and our certainties. The ABX is the only way found in audio to inhibit factors that can influence hearing.
The lying tests are also a good opportunity to see that we are listening to our little audiophile demon.

Okay, rule of thumb being applied, if you bring up "quantum" regarding HiFi you are safely ignored, though I confess to having trouble interpreting precisely what you're trying to communicate. Honestly, IDGAF about what the bee's or the squirrel's perceptual reality is.

 

[Frgirard]

Okay, rule of thumb being applied, if you bring up "quantum" regarding HiFi you are safely ignored, though I confess to having trouble interpreting precisely what you're trying to communication. Honestly, IDGAF about what the bee or the squirrel's perceptual reality is.

What we see is a construction of our brain.
Conversely what we hear is a physical stimulation of our ear.
But What we listen to is also a construction of our brain.

 

[SIY]

We listen not only with our auditory architecture but with our history, our preferences, our beliefs and our certainties. The ABX is the only way found in audio to inhibit factors that can influence hearing.

Don't conflate ABX with double blind. It is only one of many possible test formats.

 

[rdenney]

What we see is a construction of our brain.
Conversely what we hear is a physical stimulation of our ear.
But What we listen to is also a construction of our brain.

Let's make a distinction between what the detectors detect and what the processor behind the detectors interprets. That's just as true for sight as for hearing.

Rick "whose detectors are flawed by age but whose processor is subject to different influences and constraints" Denney

 

[Frgirard]

Don't conflate ABX with double blind. It is only one of many possible test formats.

Abx is the one.

 

[Frgirard]

Okay, rule of thumb being applied, if you bring up "quantum" regarding HiFi you are safely ignored, though I confess to having trouble interpreting precisely what you're trying to communication. Honestly, IDGAF about what the bee or the squirrel's perceptual reality is.

The song of the great tit?

If it is not, you don't know the reality of the great tit.

If you preferred this exemple over the quantum world. The bird world.

 

[Plcamp]

Consider for a moment the possibility that what you hear over a day might change because of your earwax configuration.

I convinced myself that subjective comparisons can’t be trusted significantly when I went through about 20 different dsp based crossover solutions, and was barely able to tell them apart. I have to see a compelling theoretical advantage to consider changes now.

There are only a few things that I will say, from purely subjective listening, that really did make a difference….

a) changing from an AVR to a dedicated power amp to drive 4 ohm nominal open baffles.
b) using an e30 DAC instead of a Sony tv analog out.
c) moving my speakers out into room

… each of those had measurable impact.

 

[richard12511]

earwax configuration.

This made me laugh.

I have a little blue squirt ball I sometimes use in the shower to optimize my earwax configuration.

 

[SubOjectivist]

You are kidding when you think about using "controls", what ever that means, in terms of sample rate increases? Do you really understand digital audio at all?

So, apparently you don't have a clue about what controls are, what purpose they serve and so on, yet you deem them useless?

 

[Wes]

can you list those dacs with marginal harmonic performance and some with clocking issues and jitter for me? I'm curious.

I'm still waiting.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...

 

[escksu]

I'm still waiting.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...

Facts need not be simple and straight. Sometimes facts are beyond our comprehension. Let me state a few examples.

1. Quantum tunneling
2. Quantum entanglement.
3. Quantum superposition.
4. Speed of light is the ultimate limit.
5. Wave/particle duality.
6. Expansion of space.

We only knows it happen but we have no idea how or why. Thats what makes it so fascinating. Physics taught me that nothing is absolute and why I need to have an open mind to learn and discover more.

 

[escksu]

I'm still waiting.

Facts are simple and facts are straight
Facts are lazy and facts are late
Facts all come with points of view
Facts don't do what I want them to
Facts just twist the truth around
Facts are living turned inside out
Facts are getting the best of them
Facts are nothing on the face of things
Facts don't stain the furniture
Facts go out and slam the door
Facts are written all over your face
Facts continue to change their shape
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...
I'm still waiting...I'm still waiting...

Also when you think you know everything about metals and conductors, you could still discover more. Using light to magnetise non-magnetic metals...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releas...se that when,spontaneously emerge in the disk.

We have been trying to figure out for 50-60yrs, still trying to figure out today.

https://nepp.nasa.gov/whisker/background/index.htm

 

[Leporello]

Remember flat frequency response can sound awful, as did the first CD players.

Or did they? This is an often repeated claim with very little evidence to support it.