Magico M9

[lemnoc]

It is interesting why Magico and the other ‘hi-end’ manufacturers don’t adopt perfect step/group/phase/dsp etc why is that do you suppose?
Keith

A lot of speakers such as ceramic and metal cone drivers can't handle minimum phase first order crossovers because they have high Q resonant peaks that have to be attenuated using high slope crossover designs. I assume the Magico fall into this category too. Anything other than first order is not minimum phase so the step response will never be ideal.

 

[Purité Audio]

Well I don't think these are going to sell in huge numbers either LOL Just ask ATC whether or not they have a good business model selling actives ??

Regarding innovation you could ask the very same question of ATC why aren’t they producing a contemporary design, perhaps manufacturers are just destined to become complacent, Kodak, Nokia…
Keith

 

[fineMen]

because step/group/phase are not that relevant and the end user can add his own DSP solution anyway?

Maybe the actual design isn't of that much importance. I mean, who is addressed by such massive chunks of ... nothing? I wouldn't want to live with these in my kondo. It would spoil the view on the landscape(s) I would have around my house(s) etc. Let alone a place to find on my sailing yacht.

Who is the intended user? She wouldn't care about finer details in the technical design.

For real hifi, I think, the overall set-up is important. A single person, in the infamous stereo triangle of just 2..3m width etc. Stereo is a humble technology with very tight limitations. I cannot be about, as is often told by the industry, "reproduction of the original event". It is just, and only barely so, about reproducing the situation at the mixing console. In a small acoustically treated cave mostly.

Regarding "my" music hall, there are many. I prefer to sit on a Grand piano discussing the interpretation of a Schubert song with the pianist. That's fun, but needs sympathy, and then gives back sympathy Such experiences cannot be paid.

 

[Frgirard]

It is interesting why Magico and the other ‘hi-end’ manufacturers don’t adopt perfect step/group/phase/dsp etc why is that do you suppose?
Keith

Because there are brands that are concerned with what is audible and not what is supposed to be audible.
A passive crossover never fails.

 

[Mart68]

Maybe the actual design isn't of that much importance. I mean, who is addressed by such massive chunks of ... nothing? I wouldn't want to live with these in my kondo. It would spoil the view on the landscape(s) I would have around my house(s) etc. Let alone a place to find on my sailing yacht.

Who is the intended user? She wouldn't care about finer details in the technical design.

For real hifi, I think, the overall set-up is important. A single person, in the infamous stereo triangle of just 2..3m width etc. Stereo is a humble technology with very tight limitations. I cannot be about, as is often told by the industry, "reproduction of the original event". It is just, and only barely so, about reproducing the situation at the mixing console. In a small acoustically treated cave mostly.

Regarding "my" music hall, there are many. I prefer to sit on a Grand piano discussing the interpretation of a Schubert song with the pianist. That's fun, but needs sympathy, and then gives back sympathy Such experiences cannot be paid.

lol

If I had that kind of money I'd probably live in one of those converted nuclear bunkers so my views would all be via CCTV anyway.

And I wouldn't buy a boat as that's a good way to go from rich to poor very quickly.

'Expensive' is a relative term. I was poor for a long time and went to having a good disposable income practically overnight. Took a while to adjust, going round the supermarket and trying to remember that I no longer had to do a cost/benefit analysis on everything I considered buying, I could just have whatever I wanted. Proper maple syrup instead of the fake stuff! - and so forth.

If you have a billion dollars you could buy these speakers just for fun, or out of interest. When you're that wealthy everything is effectively free.

 

[lherrm]

Because there are brands that are concerned with what is audible and not what is supposed to be audible.
A passive crossover never fails.

Really ? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-revel-f208-with-low-midrange-output.30070/

 

[Frgirard]

Really ? https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...le-revel-f208-with-low-midrange-output.30070/

Yes really. As a good dishonest audiophile, you will erect a bankrupt brand in general.

 

[symphara]

Actives just don't sell. Customers are a fraction of the total speaker market. Too much conservative I guess.

Active floor standers (or at least bookshelf + bass combos that integrate into one) are, I think, relatively few and tend to be quite expensive, so unless you specifically want the bookshelf + subwoofer(s) experience, I see product choice as being rather limited.

And if anything goes wrong with one of those class D amps inside, you have to ship back the whole speaker...

 

[807Recordings]

Active floor standers (or at least bookshelf + bass combos that integrate into one) are, I think, relatively few and tend to be quite expensive, so unless you specifically want the bookshelf + subwoofer(s) experience, I see product choice as being rather limited.

And if anything goes wrong with one of those class D amps inside, you have to ship back the whole speaker...

That would be a terrible design when a modular amp could be replaced. I would expect at 700K some customer service to mitigate such issues.

 

[symphara]

That would be a terrible design when a modular amp could be replaced. I would expect at 700K some customer service to mitigate such issues.

I would expect that too for 700k speakers but I’m talking about actives in general.

PS: in any case these Magico speakers have an external crossover, so you get the benefit of amplification after crossover typical for active speakers without having to cram the electronics in the speaker, which is probably subobtimal due to thermals and vibrations. This would be my preferred speaker architecture but I’ve seen very little in this area.

 

[807Recordings]

I would expect that too for 700k speakers but I’m talking about actives in general.

PS: in any case these Magico speakers have an external crossover, so you get the benefit of amplification after crossover typical for active speakers without having to cram the electronics in the speaker, which is probably subobtimal due to thermals and vibrations. This would be my preferred speaker architecture but I’ve seen very little in this area.

You mean the myth that external Xovers are better because the vibrations in the speakers effect them?

In general most actives are a lot smaller but larger models like ATC, Genelec, JBL have external amps. I do agree that anything larger should be able to be fixed on site with a replacement module.

 

[FrantzM]

These speakers are likely good. Can you do better for much less? yes , Resounding YES.
Thing is they are an aesthetics statement for a specific market. There is a market for people who believe that price defines quality. There is an audiophile look and I don't think things like the JBL M2 or Genelec monstrosity the 236A which I believe could seriously walk all over the M9, with room to spare, share such "good" looks. A subjective assessment BTW. Still the 1236 a are fugly. So is the M2.

e.g:

We have seen it here , in our audiophile world , people in the usual fora are all over Stax and Mr Speakers and RAAL, etc.. headphones that coust more than $1000 are automatically superior... here a ASR, we know and it can be proven that, so far the best measured and likely sounding headphones are not Stax or even Focal but Dan Clark's Stealth. We know that the poor and cheap AKG K-371 is closer to accuracy than the Stax 007... We know, We can prove it.. Whether the subjective audiophiles with money would care to believe, understand and be liberated is another story. The person who want those speakers would NEVER, I repeat "nevah" consider the Genelec, a "mere" studio monitor with built-in or outside amplifers and God forbid, ... D S P.
Such exist in any market segment, be it food, cars, fashion, etc... In those there has to be some amount of performance but it is often attained by items or wares, of much lesser cost and reputation. High End Audio is a luxury segment and it has its vocabulary, rules, lexicon ...They won't share measurements because however good that they could be they may not approach those of systems with lesser prices.

They will sell a few , S'Phile, TAS and other will claim the M9 are Teletransportation machines.. are as good as music reproduction can be unless you add 3 more subwoofers driven by >25,000 Class A amplifers each and with the (a?) $650,000 Turntable as the source. Amplifiers should be at least a Class A Boulder or perhaps a FM Acoustics 611 at $400K. Magico doesn't seem to like Tubes or else it would have been a Wavac for $500,000 with he SET tubes and the 10% THD at 50 watts or the Lamm ML something delivering 32 watts at about 3% THD ... >. Speaker Cables would be anything in the $50,000 range, for Digital we ned the DsC Vivaldi Stack at $125,000 or perhaps the MSB or ... They DO exist people and ...

meanwhile a pair of Genelec 8361 mounted on the W371a with a Raspberry Pi as source with Volumio and a Topping DAC could well provide similar sense of scale and heft... in the same room or perhaps go for the 1236a with some Genelec Monstrous subwoofers and GLM to make sure the total cost is close to $100K ...

Back in the days before ASR, i could have dreamt of such speakers or system... I longed for a Magico Q3.... Today ... NAAAAH. Not that I would mind the A5. Seems to be a very good speaker.



Peace

 

[symphara]

You mean the myth that external Xovers are better because the vibrations in the speakers effect them?

No, I was thinking simply in terms of mechanical resistance. I’ve seen soldering coming off before. It might be a non-issue but personally I’d rather have the electronics housed outside the speaker.

In any case, the main point I was making is not that people don’t buy actives because of “conservatism” but because the offer is rather slim, particularly outside the bookshelf section.

 

[Frgirard]

I would expect that too for 700k speakers but I’m talking about actives in general.

PS: in any case these Magico speakers have an external crossover, so you get the benefit of amplification after crossover typical for active speakers without having to cram the electronics in the speaker, which is probably subobtimal due to thermals and vibrations. This would be my preferred speaker architecture but I’ve seen very little in this area.

Xtz, do you know?

XTZ Divine Alpha floorstanding speaker - XTZ Sound in Balance

Divine Alpha floorstanding speaker by XTZ. High end drivers from Accuton and SEAS ensure an outstanding soundstage and perfect accuracy. High end has never been so beautiful and affordable at the same time.

www.xtzsound.eu

 

[Frgirard]

No, I was thinking simply in terms of mechanical resistance. I’ve seen soldering coming off before. It might be a non-issue but personally I’d rather have the electronics housed outside the speaker.

In any case, the main point I was making is not that people don’t buy actives because of “conservatism” but because the offer is rather slim, particularly outside the bookshelf section.

My kh420 can have the power amp outside.
The audiophile market doesn't like the active speakers.

 

[symphara]

My kh420 can have the power amp outside.
The audiophile market doesn't like the active speakers.

I don’t know about that. Your example is not that good in my mind to illustrate lack of adoption - the KH420 is quite expensive (particularly with its matching subs) and <3m only. It just wouldn’t work for me, at home I have almost 5m to my LR speakers.

I don‘t personally know that many audiophiles but I know a few, and at least one of them has active (some very expensive Vandersteens).

 

[fredstuhl]

I don’t know about that. Your example is not that good in my mind to illustrate lack of adoption - the KH420 is quite expensive (particularly with its matching subs) and <3m only. It just wouldn’t work for me, at home I have almost 5m to my LR speakers.

I don‘t personally know that many audiophiles but I know a few, and at least one of them has active (some very expensive Vandersteens).

Why <3m only? What will happen at 3.5m distance?

 

[symphara]

Why <3m only? What will happen at 3.5m distance?

No idea. This is what their own product literature says: “The KH 420 is designed for a working distance of 1.5 to 3 m (5’ to 9’).”. I‘ve never owned studio monitors.

 

[Puddingbuks]

Why <3m only? What will happen at 3.5m distance?

The indirect sound of the room will get the upper hand.

 

[Frgirard]

No idea. This is what their own product literature says: “The KH 420 is designed for a working distance of 1.5 to 3 m (5’ to 9’).”. I‘ve never owned studio monitors.

In the audiophile world you buy speakers to hear the room. The speakers are decorative.
In studio 3 meters is far and in low decay room, you need a lot of watts.
The decay is a major parameter impacting the sound level perceived.
My kh420 are listen at 2,5 m with an edt=280 ms.