Just spoke with Apple about the 3rd gen Apple TV 4k and sending pass-through audio to a receiver

[FriedChicken]

I noticed all audio was being output as PCM or LPCM...

I'm still looking for a replacement for my venerable WDTV which does everything I need it to, but in the meantime I've used my AppleTV (3rd gen, not 4k) for all my AppleTV needs: it fills a niche quite well. Recently there was a sale for a 3rd gen Apple TV 4k with 128GB and Ethernet (something included in the 3rd gen AppleTV), for $50 off at $100. I got it, hooked it up. I have to say, I'm impressed by the capabilities, omitting only a handful of features I used from my 3rd gen AppleTV.

As with all things apple nowadays, you can tell the whole thing exists as a portal into apple's Cash Cow App Store. Apple omitted a MicroUSB port, so you can't "hack" it to install your own software, so Kodi is out. What is in the app store, however, is VLC... at least a fisher priced iOSified version of it... and I have to say, it actually works...

Except it seems Apple has limited the AppleTV 4k to only output either Dolby Digital 5.1, Dolby Atmos, or PCM. No other audio output. Rather than googling, I actually spoke with Apple support, and got a tech who seemed pretty in charge of everything and knew his shit. I mentioned my disdain for the lack thereof, and he said he'd pass that off as feedback to engineering, saying I'm not the only one who has mentioned this, and it could be implemented with merely a software update.

If apple pulls that off, I'll be mighty impressed. I didn't ask the apple support guy about installing my own software, t,hat's a bit of a no-no in apple land.

 

[voodooless]

Try Infuse, it can do a few more audio formats. It’s not free though. It will however play several video formats better than VLC, especially when in HDR.

 

[FriedChicken]

Try Infuse, it can do a few more audio formats. It’s not free though. It will however play several video formats better than VLC, especially when in HDR.

the issue is how audio is output.... it's processed rather than sent pass-through (which requires like zero hardware overhead).

It's a limitation of the AppleTV that apple implemented after taking who knows what drugs

 

[abdo123]

No other audio output.

These three is what is being primarily used for the last 10-15 years so why is that an issue exactly?

 

[voodooless]

These three is what is being primarily used for the last 10-15 years so why is that an issue exactly?

Well, it can’t do any PCM audio above 24/48 for instance. For the Music app that limits the use of high-res audio.

If you should consider this a real problem, is a different question

 

[FriedChicken]

These three is what is being primarily used for the last 10-15 years so why is that an issue exactly?

The type of response expected from an apple fanatic...

DTS, DTS-HD, DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, DTS:X, FLAC, AAC....

 

[Tre2023]

There are those that will defend any choice Apple makes regarding, well, anything. I have many Apple products. As much as I enjoy them, they also frustrate me and I’ve contacted Apple on more than one occasion about those frustrations.

The days of a “bitstream” option in disc players does not exist as easily in streamers and a “Passthrough” option will not be found in many of them. I replaced an Apple TV 3rd gen with an Apple TV 4K 1st gen. Haven’t updated yet as Apple really hasn’t improved it enough to do so.

Many use the Nvidia Shield Pro with Plex or run Kodi on a Fire Cube 3rd gen. There is no one streamer to rule them all and many have many reasons to use one streamer or another in their systems.

I’d like a bitstream/passthrough option in my Apple TV 4K and Fire Cube. Converting to PCM increases needed bandwidth substantially. This becomes an issue when connecting directly to a TV and only having ARC bandwidth available at one or both ends.

The lossy Atmos/DD+ streams from services aren’t bandwidth hogs. But, with audio set to Best Available on both the Apple TV 4K and Fire Cube 3rd gen, the signal is converted to LPCM with Atmos metadata intact(Dolby MAT) and the needed bandwidth is increased.

While the Fire Cube 3rd Gen can be set to output DD+ and retain Atmos metadata when doing so, it cannot output 24/192 signals from Amazon Music when set this way. The Apple TV 4K, like Macs using HDMI, is locked at 24/48 always and has no DD+ output option. So, no Atmos metadata output without conversion to LPCM as the Dolby Digital 5.1 option won’t cut it.

Many leave their streamers in “stock” formation and simply stream from services. The LPCM conversion in the Apple TV 4K can trip up some systems and a DD+ output option such as that in the Fire Cube 3rd Gen. would be a welcome addition. A Passthrough option such as that in the Roku Ultra would be better still.

I do wish WD had kept going with their WDTV and MyNet devices. Things could have continued to get very interesting there.

 

[abdo123]

The type of response expected from an apple fanatic...

DTS, DTS-HD, DTS-HD MA, Dolby TrueHD, DTS:X, FLAC, AAC....

You can use your media server to decode these just fine if you need to.

My TV doesn’t support them either way.

 

[Tre2023]

Converting DTS:X to PCM results in the loss of metadata as there is no conversion format that retains its metadata like Dolby MAT does with Dolby Atmos metadata when converting DTHD or DD+ tracks in devices using Dolby MAT. Take DTS:X and Dolby Atmos out of it and many still prefer a bitstream and the decoding being done at the processor/receiver end rather than the source.

Many will bring up the gaming features of some streamers as a reason for the PCM conversion for output and don't mind it. Many want a bitstream option of any and all signals. It is not an unreasonable request and a feature still available on all video disc players or Dolby Atmos and DTS:X tracks would not have their metadata processed at the receiving end. Converting the signal to PCM on any disc player results in the loss of metadata from both Dolby Atmos and DTS:X.

Things could be worse for the Apple TV 4K. At least Apple doesn't require the download of a "Dolby Access" app like Microsoft to get Dolby Atmos. But, that's a can of worms for another thread.

 

[FriedChicken]

My TV doesn’t support them either way.

Why would you even reply to this thread if it doesn't apply to you?

You can use your media server to decode these just fine if you need to.

That's what I want to do, however AppleTV refuses to do pass-through.

 

[Tre2023]

 

[Tre2023]

Why the need for moderator approval of a pretty innocuous post?

 

[voodooless]

Why the need for moderator approval of a pretty innocuous post?

Because you might be a spam bot

 

[Tre2023]

I’ve been called many things. Spam bot is hardly the worst.

 

[AdamG]

Why the need for moderator approval of a pretty innocuous post?

Because we have new account Spam Filters that hold your posts for approval. Once you hit a number about twice your current post count. The filter will no longer apply to you. Sorry for the inconvenience but it is necessary to catch and reduce Spam accounts from burying our forum in hundreds of spam posts.

 

[abdo123]

That's what I want to do, however AppleTV refuses to do pass-through.

I meant use an application on the Apple TV that would output LPCM to the apple TV. Like Plex or Jellyfish

Eitherway unless you're playing Blu-rays (which as far as i can recall is not supported by the Apple TV) you're not going to encounter the formats you mentioned in your daily life.

 

[FriedChicken]

I meant use an application on the Apple TV that would output LPCM to the apple TV. Like Plex or Jellyfish

Eitherway unless you're playing Blu-rays (which as far as i can recall is not supported by the Apple TV) you're not going to encounter the formats you mentioned in your daily life.

I am playing blu-rays. VLC can connect to my local NAS. I want the decoding to happen on my receiver, b/c Yamaha knows what they're doing, and i'm not sure how/where their room EQ is implemented (analog or digital side).

 

[Tre2023]

The Apple TV 4K just isn’t the device to use for those that want a device to bitstream signals from their NAS to their receiver. This is why many use the Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen or the Nvidia Shield TV Pro. Results will vary using different apps on those devices.

The complexity of it all has me just playing the discs and I got out of the idea of NAS when my WD My Net N900 Central started wigging out and WD killed the My Cloud app support for the old My Net devices. WD had something there for a bit.

 

[FriedChicken]

The Apple TV 4K just isn’t the device to use for those that want a device to bitstream signals from their NAS to their receiver. This is why many use the Amazon Fire Cube 3rd Gen or the Nvidia Shield TV Pro. Results will vary using different apps on those devices.

The complexity of it all has me just playing the discs and I got out of the idea of NAS when my WD My Net N900 Central started wigging out and WD killed the My Cloud app support for the old My Net devices. WD had something there for a bit.

I wanted to like the nVidia shield TV Pro right up until I unboxed it, hooked it up, and got forced into a google login before I could do anything. Instant dealbreaker and into the proverbial trash.

In fairness, to load VLC, I had to sign in with my AppleID.

Man do I miss simple administrator passwords. The cloud can die. The WDTV requires no passwords to use, because it's a fucking living room media player.

 

[abdo123]

I wanted to like the nVidia shield TV Pro right up until I unboxed it, hooked it up, and got forced into a google login before I could do anything. Instant dealbreaker and into the proverbial trash.

In fairness, to load VLC, I had to sign in with my AppleID.

Man do I miss simple administrator passwords. The cloud can die. The WDTV requires no passwords to use, because it's a fucking living room media player.

Honestly after all the shit you gave the Apple TV it's hard to remember that it's literally the best device out of these bunch for privacy and (for lack of) advertisement.