I don't care about stereo imaging - am I alone. (Poll)

[Snarfie]

Since it is in some recordings, I'd say a good system should reproduce the effect as intended.

Not neccecerly if your speaker placement is wrong. If i change the placement from my speakers some inches the magic is gone they sound average. Despite my speakers are phase coherent build.

 

[fpitas]

Not neccecerly if your speaker placement is wrong. If i change the placement from my speakers some inches the magic is gone they sound average. Despite my speakers are phase coherent build.

Speaker placement and the room itself is all part of the system.

 

[MattHooper]

I have no tubes, yet I hear what Matt refers to. The image can be and is anywhere between, and indeed, sometimes outside the speakers.

Totally. I was listening again to an old soundtrack recording and the recording has the tympani way in the back right corner, and it seems to come from beyond the edges of the speaker. If one imagines the typical stereo listener triangle between the listening position and the triangle lines headed toward the speakers, imagine those lines continuing beyond the speakers in which those lines will spread wider than the speakers themselves. That's very similar to the effect I often hear, especially with many orchestra recordings. It doesn't seem confined to only the width of the speakers. (And, btw, I find my Benchmark LA4 solid state preamp can actually be a little 'better' at achieving this sometimes vs my CJ tube preamp. The SS preamp seems to be a bit cleaner and render the subtle tells of hall reverbs a bit more clearly).

 

[Emlin]

I enjoy it quite a bit. It's really what "stereo" is for, a spatial illusion. Then again, I have lots of mono recordings so it's not a requirement.

Mono recordings have depth.

 

[antcollinet]

OK - stand by for a certain ammount of backpeddaling :

In my OP I stated that the image was of little interest (Exact words "I don't care..."). I also stated that:
A) "I also like to be "in the music" rather than looking in it."
and
B) "Playing from a single speaker is less enjoyable than playing from two - even if the sound is mono"

I said way back there <--- somewhere that I'd try testing some stereo to mono coversion if I could find a way to do it. I found that Macs have an accessibility option to convert all stereo sound to mono, so I tried that tonight.

Statement A still stands - I like a feeling of being in/surrounded by the music.

It turns out that statement B is complete bobbins. If I listen to a mono signal from two speakers, I get a phantom center, and it feels identical to listening from a single speaker. I lose all sense of being immersed in the music.

So it would seem that at least the width of the soundfield is important to me even if the ability to locate instruments is not.**

**which brings me to a tiny tiny bit more of a reverse pedal.

As a direct result of this thread I've been listening intenetly for the stereo image. Well....errr.....I quite like it.

I've just changed my vote from "Meh" to "Nice to have"

 

[fpitas]

OK - stand by for a certain ammount of backpeddaling :

In my OP I stated that the image was of little interest (Exact words "I don't care..."). I also stated that:
A) "I also like to be "in the music" rather than looking in it."
and
B) "Playing from a single speaker is less enjoyable than playing from two - even if the sound is mono"

I said way back there <--- somewhere that I'd try testing some stereo to mono coversion if I could find a way to do it. I found that Macs have an accessibility option to convert all stereo sound to mono, so I tried that tonight.

Statement A still stands - I like a feeling of being in/surrounded by the music.

It turns out that statement B is complete bobbins. If I listen to a mono signal from two speakers, I get a phantom center, and it feels identical to listening from a single speaker. I lose all sense of being immersed in the music.

So it would seem that at least the width of the soundfield is important to me even if the ability to locate instruments is not.**

**which brings me to a tiny tiny bit more of a reverse pedal.

As a direct result of this thread I've been listening intenetly for the stereo image. Well....errr.....I quite like it.

I've just changed my vote from "Meh" to "Nice to have"

Hehe well, it has still been an interesting thread.

 

[Marc v E]

On a hopefully related topic, why it is that the 3D perception of sound is called an illusion? We don't call our depth perception an illusion, why is it what I understand to be the audio equivalent of stereo vision gets this treatment?

I wouldn't call it an illusion (but in the end illusion is just a concept, on which we can all have a different view of course)

The blog I referred to in an earlier post carefully explaines that the depth perception has a lot to do with the reverb of the sound iirc on the recording as well as the reflections in the room.

The fact that a recording can be made on site containing this information or be constructed in a sound processing device doesn't matter imo. It's still very much the same effect.

Even dispersion plays a big part apparenly for a speaker to be able to create the 'illusion' of a stereo image.

Anyway, my own take on this is that it is very system dependend, dependend on correct placement and possibly different between individuals.

 

[MattHooper]

OK - stand by for a certain ammount of backpeddaling :

In my OP I stated that the image was of little interest (Exact words "I don't care..."). I also stated that:
A) "I also like to be "in the music" rather than looking in it."
and
B) "Playing from a single speaker is less enjoyable than playing from two - even if the sound is mono"

I said way back there <--- somewhere that I'd try testing some stereo to mono coversion if I could find a way to do it. I found that Macs have an accessibility option to convert all stereo sound to mono, so I tried that tonight.

Statement A still stands - I like a feeling of being in/surrounded by the music.

It turns out that statement B is complete bobbins. If I listen to a mono signal from two speakers, I get a phantom center, and it feels identical to listening from a single speaker. I lose all sense of being immersed in the music.

So it would seem that at least the width of the soundfield is important to me even if the ability to locate instruments is not.**

**which brings me to a tiny tiny bit more of a reverse pedal.

As a direct result of this thread I've been listening intenetly for the stereo image. Well....errr.....I quite like it.

I've just changed my vote from "Meh" to "Nice to have"

Interesting.

I agree with others, it was a great question for a thread.

I have to admit that I tend to be greatly disappointed if I order an older LP to find out upon playing it that it's mono. Once that's the case I just feel any impetus to sit in the sweet spot to listen. I'll play the few mono albums I have but usually listen from another room while doing something else.

 

[Snarfie]

I wouldn't call it an illusion (but in the end illusion is just a concept, on which we can all have a different view of course)

The blog I referred to in an earlier post carefully explaines that the depth perception has a lot to do with the reverb of the sound iirc on the recording as well as the reflections in the room.

The fact that a recording can be made on site containing this information or be constructed in a sound processing device doesn't matter imo. It's still very much the same effect.

Even dispersion plays a big part apparenly for a speaker to be able to create the 'illusion' of a stereo image.

Anyway, my own take on this is that it is very system dependend, dependend on correct placement and possibly different between individuals.

Dt

I wouldn't call it an illusion (but in the end illusion is just a concept, on which we can all have a different view of course)

The blog I referred to in an earlier post carefully explaines that the depth perception has a lot to do with the reverb of the sound iirc on the recording as well as the reflections in the room.

The fact that a recording can be made on site containing this information or be constructed in a sound processing device doesn't matter imo. It's still very much the same effect.

Even dispersion plays a big part apparenly for a speaker to be able to create the 'illusion' of a stereo image.

Anyway, my own take on this is that it is very system dependend, dependend on correct placement and possibly different between individuals.

If i'm correct Step respons give you an indication if your speaker having the ability to reproduce a time alignt phase coherent sound which is important reading an re-producing reverb, imaging, staging included in the recording (if it is there). Taking in account that your speakers are in the correct/optimal spot.

Loudspeaker step response measurement and explanation

Learn how to make a loudspeaker step response measurement using ARTA. The data is extracted from the impulse response.

audiojudgement.com

 

[Godataloss]

I think a system's ability to image and a speaker's ability to "disappear" in the room is central to my enjoyment of it. Speakers being unlocalizable in the room and the sound conveying an image in 3d space is the goal is it not? It's not always on the recording, but if it's there and your system can't execute it, something is surely deficient. This post struck me like the "do you have an internal dialogue in your head" question- I thought it was a thing for everyone.

 

[JohnnyNG]

Mono recordings have depth.

Correct. The OP refers to "stereo imaging", though, which is what my post refers to as well.

 

[dogberry]

In the early 1960s there was a brief fad for treating otitis media with a single IM shot of streptomycin, which certainly worked for the earache, but it was soon noticed that kids were going deaf, or if very unlucky, deaf and dizzy (streptomycin is toxic to the eighth cranial nerve). So I have one totally dead ear, and one that's half gone, but I love music. Stereo imaging doesn't mean anything to me. Someone calls my name and I have to look in all directions to see who it was.
I like to think that without having directionality, or a sense of stereo, I can concentrate on sound quality. I have sunk enough money into feeding my right ear with the best sound I can get, and I think I'm sensitive to small differences. Even so, I have learned that no immediate sensation of a change being worthwhile is trustworthy. A few weeks later I'll find out if I'm choosing to listen as often, or staying up late at night for just one more disc. That is trustworthy.

Just for fun this week, I took out my Atlas Navigator and Equator interconnects, along with some Wireworld Equinox interconnects (maybe $150/m) and substituted cheapo $4/m Amazon interconnects. Mostly it was to reduce the tangle behind the components—the old cables were thick, stiff and awkward, but I thought I'd make an experiment out of it. Three days later I can't tell the difference. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

 

[Emlin]

In the early 1960s there was a brief fad for treating otitis media with a single IM shot of streptomycin, which certainly worked for the earache, but it was soon noticed that kids were going deaf, or if very unlucky, deaf and dizzy (streptomycin is toxic to the eighth cranial nerve). So I have one totally dead ear, and one that's half gone, but I love music. Stereo imaging doesn't mean anything to me. Someone calls my name and I have to look in all directions to see who it was.
I like to think that without having directionality, or a sense of stereo, I can concentrate on sound quality. I have sunk enough money into feeding my right ear with the best sound I can get, and I think I'm sensitive to small differences. Even so, I have learned that no immediate sensation of a change being worthwhile is trustworthy. A few weeks later I'll find out if I'm choosing to listen as often, or staying up late at night for just one more disc. That is trustworthy.

Just for fun this week, I took out my Atlas Navigator and Equator interconnects, along with some Wireworld Equinox interconnects (maybe $150/m) and substituted cheapo $4/m Amazon interconnects. Mostly it was to reduce the tangle behind the components—the old cables were thick, stiff and awkward, but I thought I'd make an experiment out of it. Three days later I can't tell the difference. We'll see what happens over the next few weeks.

I think we already know.

 

[dogberry]

Let's not "theorise in advance of the evidence" as a smart fellah once said. I remembered that my Quad 34/FM4/306 all came with truly skinny little short cables designed to fold up inside the rack for those components, and that was in the days when Quad devices were built in Huntingdon rather rather than China. Peter Walker was no fool.
I'm not saying stereo isn't important - I would dearly love to hear it just once so as to know what people talk about. I guess I'm saying it cannot be everything or I, and every music lover in the pre-stereo era would have nothing to enjoy. I've even bought a mono cartridge(!) for the reduced surface noise benefits, which are quite real. (And, funny thought, maybe I should play everything with it! Don't worry, I can't see myself foregoing the lovely and familiar sound of the cartridges on the other tonearms.)

 

[Mr. Widget]

As a direct result of this thread I've been listening intenetly for the stereo image. Well....errr.....I quite like it.

Yes, it isn't necessary, but it can be quite wonderful.

 

[Axo1989]

Yes, it isn't necessary, but it can be quite wonderful.

I would have chosen that option in the poll, probably.

 

[fpitas]

I think we already know.

The veils may come back, though.

 

[Axo1989]

Totally. I was listening again to an old soundtrack recording and the recording has the tympani way in the back right corner, and it seems to come from beyond the edges of the speaker. If one imagines the typical stereo listener triangle between the listening position and the triangle lines headed toward the speakers, imagine those lines continuing beyond the speakers in which those lines will spread wider than the speakers themselves. That's very similar to the effect I often hear, especially with many orchestra recordings. It doesn't seem confined to only the width of the speakers. (And, btw, I find my Benchmark LA4 solid state preamp can actually be a little 'better' at achieving this sometimes vs my CJ tube preamp. The SS preamp seems to be a bit cleaner and render the subtle tells of hall reverbs a bit more clearly).

I certainly get a detailed (more-or-less, depending on the recording, etc) stereo image via solid state gear (but I don't have a tube pre or amp to compare).

When I move from the listening area to other parts of the room I don't (subjectively) experience a complete/sudden collapse of the stereo image, more a sense of hearing it from a different angle. Even when I go downstairs (down the ladder actually, the sound system is on an open mezzanine) a nice "big" image remains. How much of that is my brain holding onto the image vs actual sonics is debatable. I suppose it could be more immersive (reflections) but less stereophonically specific (perceived locations).

Wrt the OP's revisions, checking our thoughts and impressions by experimenting, even informally, is always interesting. I'll have to try the switching to mono trick myself.

 

[pablolie]

I bet if you only heard mono you'd think something was missing. Everything bunched together in the middle simply is not conductive to appreciate the arrangement and diminishes the ability to appreciate the musicianship of key contributors. That said, I hate unnecessary stereo effects (panning from one side to the other etc), and I think it depends on the genre as to how relevant it is. As stated before, with classical I *MUST* get a staging reference to get really engaged. With jazz it is also nice to hear the separation. Also vocal groups - it's nice to be able to hear the different voices as they harmonize, rather than have them bunched together.

So I vote it is important, but hey ... I can enjoy great music anywhere. But then why even talk about "audiophile" stuff if you can just as well use a boombox?

 

[Emlin]

I bet if you only heard mono you'd think something was missing. Everything bunched together in the middle simply is not conductive to appreciate the arrangement and diminishes the ability to appreciate the musicianship of key contributors. That said, I hate unnecessary stereo effects (panning from one side to the other etc), and I think it depends on the genre as to how relevant it is. As stated before, with classical I *MUST* get a staging reference to get really engaged. With jazz it is also nice to hear the separation. Also vocal groups - it's nice to be able to hear the different voices as they harmonize, rather than have them bunched together.

So I vote it is important, but hey ... I can enjoy great music anywhere. But then why even talk about "audiophile" stuff if you can just as well use a boombox?

More to the point, if your system can't reproduce the details necessary for you to hear it, it's probably incapable of reproducing all the nuances that you do like.