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How to Get People Flying on the 737 Max

Martin

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I flew on the 737 Max before the crashes. That was with American Airlines who equipped all their Max’s with the redundant systems the low cost carriers left off. Part of the recertification was inclusion of these redundant systems as standard. I have no problem flying the most scrutinized aircraft in history.

Martin
 

Timon VDB

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I flew on the 737 Max before the crashes. That was with American Airlines who equipped all their Max’s with the redundant systems the low cost carriers left off. Part of the recertification was inclusion of these redundant systems as standard. I have no problem flying the most scrutinized aircraft in history.

Martin
Do you mean the AOA disagree light that was broken on models that did not have the optional AOA indicator, because the disagree light was erroneously linked to the indicator?
 

jomark911

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You may well happen to be the nicest, most knowledgeable and competent pilot I've ever encountered, but your posts here don't reflect that. As an ATP, you certainly could offer some insights and correct some misconceptions, but instead you offer opinions and attempt to back them up with appeals to your own authority. ...usually a sign of weakness, in my experience.
That's right, including yours.Hmmm... is there a secret ATP society where you learn them, but promise not to divulge them? Stuff that's not in the manufacturer's FCOM or FCTM? Where I worked for a few years, we had the NG Flight Crew Training Manuals and the Flight Crew Operating Manuals direct from Boeing, even though none of us had ATPLs (but 4 of us had PPLs). Are you saying there are procedures and techniques that are not in those? I'm impressed by your society's ability to keep it all secret.
I hope you have multiple personalities, and this is not the one you take into the cockpit. Otherwise, your appeals to self-authority and disregard for differing views would be a huge CRM red flag, and I feel sorry for any first officer stuck with you (assuming you're a captain).

(For non-pilots: ATP-airline transport pilot, ATPL-ATP license, PPL-private pilot license, CRM-crew resource management, a hot, newish (< 40 years) area in aviation safety that basically finds teamwork safer than a hierarchy in the cockpit)

Disregarding most of the above , I'm a certified CRM instructor ,examiner , for the last 10 years.
If you don't like anything of my writing , be my guest and damp it.
 

Katji

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My perspective has changed.
Just let me fly, anywhere I want to go, without 14 days locked in an expensive hotel room, and I won't bother to check which plane it is.
 

spacebar

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This is off topic but after reading your comments, I was wondering how a plane should be designed/build etc, doing it right? Is there some new airplanes in the works or good examples out there today? I believe it’s hard to give a good answer to this, but would love to hear what a pilot or a nerd think.

Myself, I don’t like to fly anymore after too many long flights. Like 24 hours in a plane and 32 hours in total with waiting and so on. That was with Boeing 747 and of course Singapore airlines because of statistics (yeah I know it’s weird). I liked this plane tho and felt safe.
 

RayDunzl

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I have to throw in my favorite aviation video here...


(My apologies to the professionals on board)
 

RayDunzl

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Such complete reliance on everything working correctly bothers me a bit too...

 

RayDunzl

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They're back...

1609261538829.png


https://www.cnbc.com/2020/12/29/737-max-returns-to-the-us-after-deadly-crashes.html


MIAMI — The first U.S. commercial flight of Boeing’s 737 Max since two deadly crashes prompted a worldwide grounding of the planes in March 2019 took off on Tuesday.

American Airlines Flight 718 took off from Miami International Airport at 10:40 a.m. for New York’s LaGuardia Airport.

“We’re flying on a Boeing 737 Max,” Capt. Sean Roskey announced over the plane’s PA system, to some applause from passengers, which included American Airlines’ president, commuting crew and other employees. “We have the utmost confidence in this aircraft. As a matter of fact, my wife is on board.”
 

weasels

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I flew 35 times in 2019.

I hate flying for one reason, and one reason alone - seat width.

I'm a big but not huge guy (6', 220). I cannot fit in an airline seat unless I spring for first class. It's uncomfortable for me and for any poor sap who sits next to me. My shoulders extend 2-3 inches into the seats on either side of me.

I hate covid, but I love telework. Not flying in 2020 has been the best part of the year for me.
 

RayDunzl

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RayDunzl

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I believe I heard that both Southwest and Alaska Air are going to one-plane fleets - the 737.

One each, or do they plan to share one?
 

norcalscott

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I recently took a SW flight from northern California (Sacramento) to southern CA - (John Wayne), and the SW app made me complete a survey later that asked me if I knew what the model of the plane I flew on was. In this case it was a 737-700, but the 737 Max was on the list as an option. This makes me think that they are trying to find out if anyone even pays attention to this stuff. I (mostly) trust SW, so I would have no issue flying the Max...
 

Luke Lemke

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This is a great set of comparative data; thanks for posting it.

I also just want to chime in with a word about relative risk. This is one of my hot buttons pet peeves nonlinearities (as I like to say) -- so many folks make choices about things they're willing to do, or not willing to do, with no understanding of the actual relative risk (or safety) of one activity vs. another. Drives me nuts, OK?! ;)

Dangerousness relative risks of activities by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Ca. (edit) two orders of magnitude more risky (in terms of risk of death per unit time invested in the activity) to travel by car than by plane.

I apologize that I no longer have the original citation for this particular data set. I first saw a presentation along these lines when I was in grad school by Bruce Ames (the "Ames Test" guy), who was disheartened by the way that data from "his" test were misused/misrepresented. In his own way, he was trying to recast the context of Ames Test data, but he was largely "preaching to the choir". I've never found a copy of Ames' slide (mind you, I was in grad school a long time ago now). This graphic is taken from a Boston Globe article, but that's all I remember at this point. :(
I don't see "staying at home" here. I'm pretty sure my wife is a greater threat to my life than a 737 after both of us doing home office for 2 years...
 
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Spkrdctr

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I used to love to fly. But, I'm too big now. The seats are sized for skinny people. I can't afford first class or business class so now I don't fly. Plus I don't like TSA. Nothing too like and so much to dislike about flying. Plus if you sit in the back by the restroom, you will need hospitalization after you land from lack of oxygen. I don't know what people eat before flying but it is disgusting. I will never sit by the bathrooms ever again. Once was enough. But, it is much better than Amtrak. I did Tampa to New York on Amtrak and that was my first time ever on a train. I learned a lot! Thank heavens for automobiles!
 

thewas

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RayDunzl

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I also just want to chime in with a word about relative risk.

"Relative Risk", to me has a factor that is not usually part of the computation, "Who is in control?", which, in the usual risky situations I encounter, is ME, in whom I place a relatively high level of trust not to do something later classifiable as utterly schtuupid if not beyond human comprehension...

Aside from that, as far as I can tell, I can only consider Commercial Air Travel is the Safest Way to Die.

What great advertising copy that would make.

I'm in the wrong business yet again.
 

mhardy6647

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"Relative Risk", to me has a factor that is not usually part of the computation, "Who is in control?", which, in the usual risky situations I encounter, is ME, in whom I place a relatively high level of trust not to do something later classifiable as utterly schtuupid if not beyond human comprehension...

Aside from that, as far as I can tell, I can only consider Commercial Air Travel is the Safest Way to Die.

What great advertising copy that would make.

I'm in the wrong business yet again.
Well, as I like to say vis-à-vis death:
The thermodynamics are never in question, only the kinetics.

:cool:
 

ahofer

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I was on a MAX last year right after they started flying again, and have no qualms about doing that again.
If you drive a vintage FIAT or Jaguar, you are taking much greater risk. Or just drive, really.
 
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