How Often do Amplifiers Clip?

[JohnYang1997]

Late to this thread, but I have a question about clipping.
Can software detect and prevent clipping? I sometimes use HQPlayer and the volume control will go "red" to indicate clipping - I actually dont here any distortion. Can software predict clipping? This is with convolution in play and headroom adjustment.
Roon has a similar clipping indicator.

I guess that leads to my next question. How do you work out amplifier requirements with DSP/Convolution filters. If I use Acourate to generate a filter <350Hz, I know it puts more stress on the amplifier. How do I work out how much power/current I need in an amplifier in this situation?
Its not as easy as matching speaker and amp specs?

In terms of the clipping that's talked about in this thread.
It's difficult to do that in software.
In amplifier design, it's possible to do the clipping detection. Prevention is not possible unless using dynamic compression (which is clipping but soft clip in a sense).

The clipping you are talking about is digital clipping. That can be easily implemented. When software indicates clipping and you don't hear it, it's just that you don't hear it when it's mild. The clipping has happened.

Then to the next question. No you can't. Digital clipping is digital clipping. Analog clipping is analog. The output of your dac will be capped no matter what. Hence the analog devices down the line do not sense the clipping behavior. And this means that you don't need specific headroom in the analog device for digital processing to work.

 

[andrew]

Let's try something.

Below are wattage requirements for a single speaker with 84dB, 87dB or 90dB SPL sensitivity, and 8 ohm nominal impedance. I've included a linear scale version just for the first chart.

• For two speakers, add 3dB.
• For 4 ohm impedance, add 3dB.
• For 16 ohm impedance, subtract 3dB.

View attachment 59905
View attachment 59907
View attachment 59914
View attachment 59915
Here are continuous and burst power results for amps that @amirm measured at both 4 ohm and 8 ohm.
View attachment 59924

So, as others have said, amps will clip a lot.

Might be a bit late to this thread but does this change if one offloads bass fro the mains to a subwoofer. I thought that additional amp head-room was an often touted benefit of a x/o between subs and mains but don’t understand how this is quantified.

 

[DanielT]

This rig I heard last weekend. Line speakers plus subwoofers.

Now I get this with clipping in practice. Very easy when I came home after the Vintage DIY fair and listened to my stuff, when the amplifier started to be driven into clipping and or the speakers started distorted.Just to discover it, I deliberately tested with a low-power amplifier
(my bedroom receiver) that has 2x30 W in 8 Ohm together speakers 8 Ohm, 89 dB 2.83 V / 1M. I could not test for long though. The neighbors had gone insane.

Hell how loud he, Solhaga / Claes could pull on without it sounding bad.Not a hint of clipping or distortion, from what I could hear.

A video only gives an indication of the potential of that system, but still

Some of the amplifiers used in that rig, see attached pictures. How much power? Enough.

Conclusion 1:
Have a lot of effect and thus get a good headroom

Conclusion 2
Even more power and headroom

 

[pozz]

Might be a bit late to this thread but does this change if one offloads bass fro the mains to a subwoofer. I thought that additional amp head-room was an often touted benefit of a x/o between subs and mains but don’t understand how this is quantified.

You're entirely right.

Music will tend to follow a slope. I think -3dB per octave is the statistical average.

Then there are other effects to do with reverb reinforcing higher frequencies and slowing the drop in SPL per distance, and modal gain/loss for bass.

A more accurate model would take that into account. At that point you'll want to include effects contributing to the reverse, like typical absorption in rooms and speaker compression and directivity.

On the amp side, you'd have to consider gain, which sets the noise floor, and how much clipping would be tolerable.

You can probably mix and match any factor above and others until you hit a figure that seems reasonable.

 

[Schollaudio]

When that Metallica blu-ray spins up. That's when.

From my sillyscop and power meter observations, with dynamic music, 10DB, when the power meter hits 20watts the +- 60V 200watt power supply is on the verge of clipping.

 

[David Harper]

I think I've heard an amp clip once or twice. It sounds horrible. It blew the tweeter in my infinity speaker a long time ago.
I've since learned how to tell when NOT to turn the volume up any higher.

 

[Hayabusa]

They clip when they either reach their maximum output voltage or maximum output current.
Factors are: max output voltage and current (power), efficiency of the used transducers, desired SPL, room size, listening distance.

Just make sure you have an abundance of available power and you will never have to fear clipping.

Peak power meters can make this visible.

I always wondered why not more amp have a real clip or near clip indicator.
Its always good to know you reach the limits..

 

[DanielT]

I think I've heard an amp clip once or twice. It sounds horrible. It blew the tweeter in my infinity speaker a long time ago.
I've since learned how to tell when NOT to turn the volume up any higher.

Turn the volume on your pad or mobile really much /high and you will hear how the amplifier is driven into clipping. Sounds too damn bad.

Edit:
Now I have a slightly older mobile / pad. On newer models maybe there are measures (reductions) made so to reduce the risk of
push the amplifier into clipping?