How much louder should Topping DX3 Pro+ be compared to Behringer umc202hd?

[SangriaAudio]

For me it is not that much louder. It seems like it should be way louder considering the output power but basically the topping at -5 db is same as Behringer at max. With the R70x.

I also tested with the Bose qc25 and there the topping is the same volume at -10 but the Bose is heavily distorted on the Behringer.

Shouldn't the topping be alot louder since the output power?

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

A 10dB difference is a 10x difference in output power, throw in the fact that the topping will push that cleanly and you're probably getting close to 15x greater clean power.

 

[SangriaAudio]

A 10dB difference is a 10x difference in output power, throw in the fact that the topping will push that cleanly and you're probably getting close to 15x greater clean power.

Well the thing is the Behringer is 7mw into 300ohm while the topping is 250mw into 300ohm. 250/7=35 so it should be 35 times more powerful. Or maybe I don't understand this.

 

[solderdude]

35x (power) = 15.5dB.

You mentioned topping is at -10 when the Behringer is clipping so basically dB or 3-5 above 0dB so all in all about 15dB difference for the Bose.
A 10dB increase in level is perceived about a doubling in volume

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

Well the thing is the Behringer is 7mw into 300ohm while the topping is 250mw into 300ohm. 250/7=35 so it should be 35 times more powerful. Or maybe I don't understand this.

10log(35)=15.4dB and I wouldn't be surprised if you're actually listening at a greater volume on the Topping amp relative to the Behringer. Few things make me turn down the volume as much as distortion.

 

[SangriaAudio]

10log(35)=15.4dB and I wouldn't be surprised if you're actually listening at a greater volume on the Topping amp relative to the Behringer. Few things make me turn down the volume as much as distortion.

I didn't turn down the volume on the Behringer it was at max. I just did this for a test. I put Spotify at like 10% then both at max. Also the Behringer only distorted with my Bose and M50x. On the r70x there was no noticeable distortion. Also on the r70x the Beringer was equal to around -5 on the topping instead of 10 with the Bose.

 

[Elitzur–Vaidman]

I didn't turn down the volume on the Behringer it was at max. I just did this for a test. I put Spotify at like 10% then both at max. Also the Behringer only distorted with my Bose and M50x. On the r70x there was no noticeable distortion. Also on the r70x the Beringer was equal to around -5 on the topping instead of 10 with the Bose.

I meant that the distortion on the Behringer may be perceived as additional loudness, so an undistorted source would need to be at a higher spl for the same perceived volume.

 

[SangriaAudio]

I meant that the distortion on the Behringer may be perceived as additional loudness, so an undistorted source would need to be at a higher spl for the same perceived volume.

Yeah makes sense. Well I don't ever use the topping below -25 db at low gain so I have basically 38db headroom. 25+13 of high gain.

 

[SangriaAudio]

With audio technica r70x topping at -5dB in high gain is same volume as Behringer at max. I thought the topping would have alot more power than the Behringer?

 

[Jimbob54]

I didn't turn down the volume on the Behringer it was at max. I just did this for a test. I put Spotify at like 10% then both at max. Also the Behringer only distorted with my Bose and M50x. On the r70x there was no noticeable distortion. Also on the r70x the Beringer was equal to around -5 on the topping instead of 10 with the Bose.

Is this all with Spotify at 10%? And if you put Spotify /PC at max?

 

[SangriaAudio]

Is this all with Spotify at 10%? And if you put Spotify /PC at max?

Yes it is. If I would put all on max I wouldn't be able to listen because my ears would stop working.

 

[Jimbob54]

Yes it is. If I would put all on max I wouldn't be able to listen because my ears would stop working.

Then I really wouldn't worry about it

 

[SangriaAudio]

Then I really wouldn't worry about it

Yeah it's not like any of them is too low. I just wanna know the science behind how something with 250mw into 300ohm compared to 7mw into 300 ohm only is 5db louder.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

How often do you intend to repeat this question?

 

[SangriaAudio]

How often do you intend to repeat this question?

I know it might come of as annoying but I haven't gotten a good answer on why this is the case.

 

[DVDdoug]

You may be comparing analog gain rather than maximum output before clipping. The amplifier with more gain will be louder if neither one is clipping.

 

[SangriaAudio]

You may be comparing analog gain rather than maximum output before clipping. The amplifier with more gain will be louder if neither one is clipping.

Do you usually measure this with or without clipping. Because if I were to use the Behringer normally I think it would maybe clip at 75% or something like that. Maybe even less.

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Answers will not get better by repeating the question.

 

[SangriaAudio]

Answers will not get better by repeating the question.

Okay, I am sorry for the annoyance. I just thought if more people saw the question there would be a higher chance of someone explaining this.

 

[solderdude]

The difference is max 15dB. 10dB is a doubling in perceived volume.
You cannot clip the Topping but easily clip the Behringer (above about 60% the Behringer clips) so aside from output power there is also gain (relative to volume control settings)