How effective would heavy ceiling treatment work here?

[tifune]

I realize it's not possible to give a concrete answer, but I'm hoping to gather opinions deeper than "it's better than nothing" before spending so much. GIK sales have recommended 12x 244s (https://www.gikacoustics.com/product/gik-acoustics-244-bass-trap-flexrange-technology/) but I'm willing to go thicker. Basically the ceiling is the only spot I can place them without upsetting the peaceful balance in my house. Maybe something decorative flanking the fireplace (maybe)

MDAT attached for front L/R

 

[Bjorn]

A lot of it's sufficiently effective which obviously depends on type of treatment.

But having very reflective side walls and rear wall (?) with such speakers will still be a big compromise. A narrower combined with broad band constant directivity would therefore also be very beneficial.

 

[tifune]

A lot of it's sufficiently effective which obviously depends on type of treatment.

But having very reflective side walls and rear wall (?) with such speakers will still be a big compromise. A narrower combined with broad band constant directivity would therefore also be very beneficial.

I'm always keeping an eye out for Kii/D&D used/b-stock, but hard to come by.

Can you elaborate on "sufficiently effective"?

 

[amirm]

The ceiling is quite high so I doubt that you are hearing much from reflections from it.

 

[amirm]

Looking at your measurements, you have a room mode around 40 to 50 Hz. The products you linked to have almost no absorption that low. Your best bet is to use EQ and pull that peak down.

 

[tifune]

Looking at your measurements, you have a room mode around 40 to 50 Hz. The products you linked to have almost no absorption that low. Your best bet is to use EQ and pull that peak down.

Thanks, the measurements are "raw"; I'm already doing that with Dirac DLBC (soon, ART when widely released) but I'm not aware of any DSP that can fix excess reverb

The ceiling is quite high so I doubt that you are hearing much from reflections from it.

That's exactly why I'm doubting the ROI, but unsure how to validate

 

[CapMan]

I agree with our host on this on not dealing with the lower frequencies. I also think 12 panels could really dry out the room too much. Putting absorption at first reflection points will help imaging and you will not achieve this if it’s all in the ceiling

 

[CapMan]

You might be able to find more appealing panels than GIK - I put this ceiling cloud up which is PET based and a little more appealing. I know it also doesn’t absorb that low , but helps those reflections

 

[amirm]

I'm not aware of any DSP that can fix excess reverb

It does in the case of resonances. That aside, you have a room with a lot of hard surfaces. And it is large so RT60 is going to be on the high side. I looked at Topt and some of the peaking is around 1 to 2 kHz. Consider changing the carpet with a thicker one. That would help some there but ultimately that wall of glass and stone all around, is going to mandate high reflections. Mind you, on some music that is a benefit but for typical rock and pop, it can be a bit much.

 

[ZolaIII]

Concert answer is grean speaker in measurements and I bet that's the one close to glas part. Put some thick curtains and move complete setup little more to the left so the right would have more wall instead of glass behind it. Same peaks are present on the red but far less pronounced and surprisingly the green is better in highs. I hope mic SPL whosent calibrated or you really need professional help. Do measurements around 76 to 80 dB (SPL calibrated of course) in the future and same goes regarding listening (as long term max as peaks are +20 dB).


Fix those with narrow PEQ's and you have most of the job done.

 

[Timcognito]

Not sure, but I believe there are sound absorbing drywall materials. I just see studs.
Edit: Not an option. Should have expanded the thumbnail. Sorry

 

[tifune]

. I hope mic SPL whosent calibrated or you really need professional help.

Mentally, or acoustically? It was UMIK1

 

[ZolaIII]

Mentally, or acoustically? It was UMIK1

Well if average whose 90+ SPL mono over 83~85 as reference max calibration white noise point then otolaryngologist. I think that whose without cal file (at least hope so).
I can show you tomorrow how it looks done and raw in my case as I don't have raw now and it's to late (night) to do them now.
It's not that hard to do, my sub's look and sound smooth and it's worser space.
Main thing is you aim at waterfal to squash the peaks out. Can even do it for you (from measurements to desired curve) after you improve physical setup and if you gonna do that and tell me what type sub's are (ported as much as I can see from RT60 decay times).

 

[kemmler3D]

I'm definitely jealous of the setup (Genelec atmos!) but I tend to agree with Amir and others that your insurmountable problem is the glass and stone/brick.

Hanging some treatments from the ceiling should help the RT60 a bit, but you're still going to have a lot of strong reflections from the windows/walls that will affect imaging no matter what's on the ceiling.

I would see if you can maybe hang some heavy curtains and just keep them open when it's not time for critical listening.

 

[Bjorn]

I'm always keeping an eye out for Kii/D&D used/b-stock, but hard to come by.

Can you elaborate on "sufficiently effective"?

Those speakers don't really have a narrow horizontal disperson. You'll get pretty strong reflections from both side walls with such radiation pattern.

If it's absorptive in the mids and highs, it will attenuate reflections. Those arriving from speaker the ceiling directly to listening position and potentially those that go to the ceiling and via either side walls or via rear wall before they arrive at the listening position. But some of those could be better to diffuse really, depending on arrival of time.

If the treatment is effective lower in frequencies, it will greatly clean up the resonances and ringing in lower midrange and part of the bass area. EQ can't achieve this, so this will very beneficial and greatly audible. You can see in one of your graphs that there are a serious amount of resonances.

I would considering building something thicker myself here and put in between some of the beams and perhaps combine it with some diffusion if aesthetics allow it. Covering the whole ceiling with something too absorptive of highs wouldn't be a good choice, though the room IMO badly needs something to break up flutter echo and minimize reflections.

 

[CapMan]

Freestanding absorbers that you could move into place - these are pretty light (same PET material as my ceiling absorber)

t.akustik PET Mobile Wall 195 BK

Absorber For acoustic room optimisation, Ideal for offices, call centres, sound studios, home studios, podcast and streaming rooms, rehearsal rooms as well as hi-fi and home cinema applications, Effective range: from 315 Hz, Material: PET fleece,...

www.thomann.de

 

[Bjorn]

Freestanding absorbers that you could move into place - these are pretty light (same PET material as my ceiling absorber)

t.akustik PET Mobile Wall 195 BK

Absorber For acoustic room optimisation, Ideal for offices, call centres, sound studios, home studios, podcast and streaming rooms, rehearsal rooms as well as hi-fi and home cinema applications, Effective range: from 315 Hz, Material: PET fleece,...

www.thomann.de

Please note that a 50mm absorber is primarily something the works well above 700-800 Hz area, thus will change the spectral content quite a bit. Also note that NRC measurement are not applicable to this usage and type of room. It's not a very good absorber to use for music in a small room IMO.

But having something mobile for walls is a great idea.

 

[CapMan]

Please note that a 50mm absorber is primarily something the works well above 700-800 Hz area, thus will change the spectral content quite a bit. Also note that NRC measurement are not applicable to this usage and type of room. It's not a very good absorber to use for music in a small room IMO.

But having something mobile for walls is a great idea.

Data sheet for the PET absorbers FWIW.

 

[Bjorn]

View attachment 352210

Data sheet for the PET absorbers FWIW.

I know. I already commented it.

NRC measurements is pretty much a joke as Ron Sauro (one of the foremost experts in measurement of acoustic products) would say. It's misleading marketing.

 

[tifune]

Based on amir's mention that DSP can help with resonances (and because I upgraded front L/R), took a few new measurements today. one with no processing at all, one with DLBC on, and one with my HTP1 in Dirac Bypass mode. I don't see in the manual exactly what that does, but i figured why not

EVen with DLBC on, I presume all recommendations in this thread still stand?