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Multicore

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The good news is-- distortion is where it's at, in guitars. Not like today's hi-fi scene, where arguing about minuscule amounts of amplifier distortion comes across as pretty silly within the overall scheme of things anyone will ever hope to hear in their living room, and that could affect their musical enjoyment.
Musicians, not just guitarists, have some funny ideas about how their instruments work. But in the end some of them get good results. In the hi-fi scene we can see other varieties of funny ideas, like the one that we can or should remove our subjectivity from playback, or that we should not and therefore some gear with intrusive characteristics is preferable to gear without. So many funny ideas. It why I keep coming back to these conversations.
 

jschwender

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What about Fishman Fluence?
I never tested one, but the design has some innovative aspects. These are two printed coils, vertically stacked with something like 750 windings and an active preamplifier from what i have seen. As they don't publish technical details it is hard to say how it is really made up. The list of patents covers this and that, but not the core. Anyway, the low number of windings should improve the frequency response. This makes it reasonable if people say it sounds good. The coil is a PCB, and this is just a different manufacturing technology, the result is pretty much the same as wire winding: it ends up in a coil, just easier to manufacture and with better reproducibility.
 

Rottmannash

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I would change it to read that aftermarket pickups will likely make a difference. Whether the difference is for the better depends upon what you are looking (listening?) for. Also, there is the 'wow' and 'brand name' factor that most always influences folks. People ask, "Why should I buy the Epi Slash (using Chinese pickups) for a thousand dollars, when I can buy the '59 with Gibson USA pickups for nine hundred dollars?" Good question. You'd buy it mostly because you like the color, and you don't get the Slash logo with the '59.

FWIW, I was at the Gibson Nashville store wandering through a lot of guitars I couldn't afford. To my old and tired ears, the Epiphone Slash Goldtop pickups sounded fine. I wish they'd make a '59 style Goldtop for a hundred dollars less, though.

People say (and they are no doubt correct) that the cheaper the guitar, the cheaper are the electronics. But cheapness doesn't always mean a lack of sonic goodness. One of my favorite playing and sounding guitars is an ugly, bottom of the barrel Schecter C-6 with their own branded (probably made in China) pickups. I would never change those out. They do what that guitar is supposed to do, and they do it well.

On the other hand, the electronics (switches and pots) on an 2015 Les Paul Standard started to fail after a year. And the pickups were muddy sounding. I replaced them with a matched set up Duncan pickups, along with new wiring harness and switches. Transformed the guitar.

Generally, pickups don't go bad, and with all the hobbyists who like to change things out, you can easily find discounted used sets. It's pretty quick and relatively inexpensive to experiment.

Somewhere on one of his weekly firesides, Phil McKnight offered an opinion--coming from his years of wiring pickups. He said something to the effect that automated machine wiring gives you a consistency you won't get from hand wiring, but the hand wired product tends to be more valuable in the minds of customers since... well, since it requires a human to actually wind the coils. So there's a sense of pride of ownership a customer gets from that, which they probably don't get from a robot made pickup.
Gibson went to the dogs during a period in the 90's/early'00s. I bought a LP standard w/ gold pickups/hardware and the gold is no longer gold, to say the least. I believe they have regained their mojo and are turning out quality product. I bought a LP Tribute at a charity fund raiser here in Nashville and it sounds so much better (and plays better) than the Standard I bought back in the late 90's.
 

Tom C

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I can remember seeing a used copy of B. B. King’s “Lucille“ back in the late 70’s, with the gold plate worn off the pickups. I decided then I never wanted a gold plated guitar.
 

Tom C

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The sound of electric guitar is an evolved cultural artifact that has been mature for decades. Is that what you mean?
I just meant that
1.) it’s not true that full-range, linear, low-noise pickups have never been made
2.) linear and full-range are not the goals for players who are after a classic sound.
 

Multicore

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Gibson went to the dogs during a period in the 90's/early'00s. I bought a LP standard w/ gold pickups/hardware and the gold is no longer gold, to say the least. I believe they have regained their mojo and are turning out quality product.
Apart from anything else they may have improved, they now use a PLEK CNC machine.
 

anmpr1

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Gibson went to the dogs during a period in the 90's/early'00s. I bought a LP standard w/ gold pickups/hardware and the gold is no longer gold, to say the least.
Yeah... but now you have a 'relic' guitar. People pay x-tra for that! :cool:

Gibson is one of those companies that people love to hate. But they keep lining up to buy. I'll admit that although I came away somewhat speechless, I really didn't dig my trip to their Nashville Garage. Walking around fifty thousand dollar custom shop guitars hanging on two prongs makes me nervous. It's probably a 'you break, you buy' proposition.
 

dfuller

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Guitar pickups are not super different from a moving magnet phono cartridge or the capsule of a dynamic microphone. It's a bunch of wire wrapped around a bobbin, with a magnet either underslung or inside the coils.

Where it gets complex is that their LCR values vary wildly depending on how it's wound, what wire it's wound with (gauge and insulation being the big ones), how much wire is wound around the coils, etc etc. and obviously this has a huge effect on frequency response. Then there's the magnets and the polepieces - different magnet metallurgies and thicknesses as well as polepiece length, metallurgy, shape, etc all have a big impact on sonics. Hell even the baseplate can have an audible difference because it'll mess with the magnetic field shape.

What gets interesting is that they are decidedly nonlinear dynamically. How a passive generator ends up having dynamic range compression, I don't know, because it's not like a speaker voice coil where it gets hot and has thermal compression going on. If somebody knows how this phenomenon happens, I'm all ears.
 

KSTR

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What gets interesting is that they are decidedly nonlinear dynamically. How a passive generator ends up having dynamic range compression, I don't know, because it's not like a speaker voice coil where it gets hot and has thermal compression going on. If somebody knows how this phenomenon happens, I'm all ears.
PU's aren't actually compressing in a way that's associated with a variable gain as such, there is no physical mechanism for that.

But, they are nonlinear (distorting, an independently for each string, mind you) which can give us perceived level compression in case the distortion mechanism were compressive overall, reducing RMS amplitude.

Now, as far as I can tell from my own experiments and from reading the mentioned reference text, the main nonlinear mechanism is momentary string distance to pole piece... when the string gets closer to the pole piece (momentary position, not average) momentary output level increases more than proportionally, giving rise to expansive even order distortion which actually is the opposite of level compression as RMS level is increasing, not decreasing (initial attack phase of string vibration gets emphasized).
 

Multicore

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Now, as far as I can tell from my own experiments and from reading the mentioned reference text, the main nonlinear mechanism is momentary string distance to pole piece... when the string gets closer to the pole piece (momentary position, not average) momentary output level increases more than proportionally, giving rise to expansive even order distortion which actually is the opposite of level compression as RMS level is increasing, not decreasing (initial attack phase of string vibration gets emphasized).
That's consistent with what I recall from reading the research articles that measured some pickups using a string shaker set-up.
 

OnLyTNT

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Check out the pickup experiment which Glenn did on his Youtube channel SpectreSoundStudios ;).
 
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