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Guitar industry challenges high-end audio for most absurd snake oil sales pitch

Bruce Morgen

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“These new buttons help to open up the vowel sound of the guitar. By having less weight on the headstock, the whole guitar sounds more musical. As one of the few parts of a guitar to physically touch the guitar string, the tuners can either enhance or dampen the frequency of string vibration. Strings are the only part of the guitar itself that produces sound, you don’t want anything to dampen or flatten that sound before it can even register with the pickups.” - Paul Reed Smith
 

Cbdb2

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It would be nice to see where this came from. I dont even know what there talking about, what "buttons"? Theres some truth there so who knows, a blind listening test is needed. And PRS makes great guitars.
 

RayDunzl

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Cbdb2

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Seems plausible. Easy enough to test, clamp some weight on your head stock.
Than again I see people playing with there head stock tuners on and they don't notice a difference. Would like to know how much weight difference the new tuners make.
 

GeorgeBynum

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“These new buttons help to open up the vowel sound of the guitar. By having less weight on the headstock, the whole guitar sounds more musical. As one of the few parts of a guitar to physically touch the guitar string, the tuners can either enhance or dampen the frequency of string vibration. Strings are the only part of the guitar itself that produces sound, you don’t want anything to dampen or flatten that sound before it can even register with the pickups.” - Paul Reed Smith
Where is the water source to dampen the frequency or sound? Does it cause the strings to rust?

Sound or other vibration or motion is DAMPED, not dampened. Where did this misuse originate?
 

Cbdb2

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So he should have said: you don't want anything to DAMPED the sound?
 

DVDdoug

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I do believe there is a fair amount of nonsense & mythology in the musical community, and the musical instrument industry. (Also in the pro audio world.)

But different guitars and amplifiers are supposed to sound different, and they can. That's a different philosophy from high-fidelity reproduction where you want to accurately reproduce the recording.

Although I'm not a musician, Jim Lill has several videos that I found interesting, including Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From In An Electric Guitar? ...EDIT - Link fixed.
 
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RayDunzl

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Cbdb2

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I do believe there is a fair amount of nonsense & mythology in the musical community, and the musical instrument industry. (Also in the pro audio world.)

But different guitars and amplifiers are supposed to sound different, and they can. That's a different philosophy from high-fidelity reproduction where you want to accurately reproduce the recording.

Although I'm not a musician, Jim Lill has several videos that I found interesting, including Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From In An Electric Guitar? ...EDIT - Link fixed.
For the biggest factor in guitar tone, I go with the player.
 

JimBean

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I do believe there is a fair amount of nonsense & mythology in the musical community, and the musical instrument industry. (Also in the pro audio world.)

But different guitars and amplifiers are supposed to sound different, and they can. That's a different philosophy from high-fidelity reproduction where you want to accurately reproduce the recording.

Although I'm not a musician, Jim Lill has several videos that I found interesting, including Tested: Where Does The Tone Come From In An Electric Guitar? ...EDIT - Link fixed.

The whole argument on different "tonewoods", the wood used for the guitar body, is where it gets really silly. Seems to me that it's mostly irrelevant for a solid body electric. The tone comes mainly from the pickups combined with the amp and whatever pedals you use. For acoustics, it's a different story, of course the wood used for an acoustic makes a difference in sound. I would imagine it's a bit more important for a semi-hollow electric as well.

Alot of the guitar nonsense is wrapped up in boutique guitar pedals as well. But some of it is logical, different internal components used do affect the sound.
 
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Bruce Morgen

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The whole argument on different "tonewoods", the wood used for the guitar body, is where it gets really silly. Seems to me that it's mostly irrelevant for a solid body electric. The tone comes mainly from the pickups combined with the amp and whatever pedals you use. For acoustics, it's a different story, of course the wood used for an acoustic makes a difference in sound. I would imagine it's a bit more important for a semi-hollow electric as well.

Alot of the guitar nonsense is wrapped up in boutique guitar pedals as well. But some of it is logical, different internal components used do affect the sound.

As someone who worked with one of the all-time greats in electric guitar history on and off for about ten years, I can say with great confidence that lumber used to build a solid-body guitar does make a difference, just not in the way most folks think it does (or doesn't). Further explanation would veer into "TL;DR" territory, especially in a venue like ASR -- but, suffice it to say, the overall functionality of a solid-body guitar has been widely misunderstood and/or oversimplified for decades and, as with audio, most explanation attempts tend to predominantly comprise folklore with a dearth of facts.
 

Philbo King

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I agree with a lot of the above re: debunking snake oil. To play devils advocate, I do have a Kramer bass from the 80s with a hard rock maple body and aluminum neck which I once set on a guitar stand and plucked the E string before going to bed. The next morning I turned on the amp and the string was still ringing... However I have not so far written any pieces that call for an 8 hour bass note. :)
 

anmpr1

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Paul Reed must be hanging out with Paul McGowan. I think some guitarists buy into the never ending idea that a new piece of gear will automatically turn them into a better player. But it's practice. It comes down to that. A new guitar (or different guitar) might make one want to practice more, or try out different styles. But that's about it.

Jeff Beck could (if he were still around) take my $200.00 SquireSonic Strat and make it sound like Jeff Beck. I could take his $2000.00 artist series Fender Strat and still sound like me. New tuning buttons wouldn't make a difference for either of us.

Any change made on a musical instrument might make a sonic difference. But difference does not mean better. And in electric guitar land any change made to your tuning buttons is going to be minuscule compared to the everything else on the instrument (strings, pickups...) and downstream (pedals, amp, cabinet...). But for sixty-five dollars a set (five more for ebony), new keys aren't going to break the bank, I guess.

On the other hand, I put a Yin Yang tiger decal on my SG, and for the first few minutes it almost made me play like Jerry. So who can really say about this mysterious stuff?
 

KSTR

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The marketing blurb from PRS is embarrassing bullshit but the underlying physics are real, the effect is well established and of course can be measured if that is in question.

It is a pity because Paul Reed Smith helped pioneering real engineering in guitar building -- for example locking tuners, graphite nut, shallow headstock angle, 3/3 mounting of tuners, all this, together with his excellent interpretation of the vintage tremolo (the only really working one, to this day) fixed all the issues we had with Fenders. I have one of the earliest EG-3 models that made it over to Europe, very early 90'ies, and I know what I'm speaking of.

A guitar neck is a resonant system, spring and mass. When you change the mass at the head-stock this shifts resonant frequencies. Neck resonances are like room modes, better not excite them because they kill the fundamental of a note ("wolf", "dead spot"). Same effect than with tuning strings differently, you change the excitation pattern of the resonances and thus dead spot tendency pattern across the neck ==> different sound (not by much, but very noticeable for the player).

I've actually replaced the cast metal wings of the tuners of guitars with wooden or plastic ones whereas on others (basses, mostly) I occasionally add extra weight (like Fender "Fat Finger") to the headstock to move resonances out of the way. When playing fretless bass, a dead spot on a prominent note of a song is a show stopper.
 

OnLyTNT

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I don't think adding "weight" to the headstock will make any discernible difference, especially with the tuners. Vibration of the strings first hits the bridge then wood then the tuners and it has to travel back. For drastic change in sustain -as you mentioned spring and mass-, the total mass of the system should also be changed drastically which can't be achieved just by changing the tuners in my opinion. Also, different materials do not contribute as much when it comes to sustain. As for "shift in resonant frequencies", ideally for an electric guitar the body should not resonate at all. And again using different materials on the guitar body also does not contribute much overall tonality of the guitar, it doesn't matter how dense the material is. The difference is totally negligible. When it comes to high gain, forget everything about the hardware of the guitar, they all sound %99 the same...

To be clear, we need to test the very same guitar with different tuners, record it with the same signal chain and check the frequency response to see if there is any tone shift or enhanced sustain and if it really matters. Long story short, we need objective results :).

Off topic, I'm much better with a lighter guitar than a heavy "back/neck killer" one.

 
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