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Genelec W371A + The Ones : My quest for the Grail is over

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Bernard 54

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Good evening everyone.
As expected, Tovarich007 and I attended a new listening to the W371A today in the Centre Chopin. We had the opportunity to compare the 8361A with the 8351B.
Tovarich007 will give you a feedback on his listening.
As far as I am concerned, and contrary to what I expected, I did not find with the 8351B the same impressions as those felt with the 8361A.
In my opinion, the bass quality of the 8361A is clearly a plus compared to the 8351B and the W371A does not make up for this difference.
The feeling of "goosebumps" and immersion in music are in my opinion a plus provided by the 8361A.
I did not feel on my side the advantage provided by the Frequency Response of the 8351B more precise than that of the 8361A.
 

stevenswall

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The subwoofer pricing is really stupid. Amazing subs available for far less than half or even 1/4th the price of the 371A, using the best quality drivers made. I think there is nothing wrong with paying a premium for exceptional quality such as with the speakers, but the subs are WAY out of line. I can't see the justification.

As an example, one of the best measuring raw drivers ever tested on Data-Bass can be bought for around $700: Better than Genelec. Fantastic/SOTA amps are available at reasonable prices, and a rectangular box doesn't cost much either. $9,000???

The W371 can control the bass dispersion pattern and has some pretty major DSP happening inside... Basically makes The Ones perfectly integrates full range speakers with controlled bass dispersion down to pretty low frequencies. I'm not aware of a subwoofer that does that besides the Kii BXT module, which I think is also ludicrously expensive.

You'd think a company would release a cardioid subwoofer since they already have cheap ones for PA systems... No consumer is going to make a custom pin out cable to link with their computer to program a DSP board for a single DIY sub, but for a company it seems like it would be straightforward, and then we'd have high performance cardioid subs... No competition either that I can see from PSA, Rythmic, etc. Seems like a DSP board and a dual opposed setup from Rythmik or Power Sound Audio would do the trick to some extent. Or heck, a quad opposed on for even more opportunities to change the phase and control the sound. Maybe SPL and extension is too big an issue for home use where people don't want PA sound though.
 
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Frank Dernie

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The subwoofer pricing is really stupid. Amazing subs available for far less than half or even 1/4th the price of the 371A, using the best quality drivers made.
The pressure to reduce the price will only exist when somebody else produces a similar device that can do the same thing.
At present it is unique and comparing it to a subwoofer is totally missing the point of it.
 

HooStat

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It also makes me wonder if the W371A could be used with a less expensive Genelec monitor with similar results. With a cross-over of up to 500 Hz, it seems that the 8350 (for example), might blend well. I know Genelec doesn't support that option, but it could make the pairing a little more affordable.
 

Tovarich007

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A quick feedback of my listening to the 8351B/8361 with the W371A. First of all, thanks to the Chopin Center team who spared no time or efforts for us, and of course thanks to Bernard, a cool guy, very passionnate about sound.

As for the listening test itself, well, I must confess I felt a little bit frustrated, because the Chopin Center hasn't downloaded the musical list Bernard and I have studied and proposed for the test. And Bernard and the CC team discussed a lot during the session about calibration or other technical issues. I undersantd it quite weel, but it was difficult for me to stay focused and concentrated on the sound. In the end, i listened only 4 short extracts among those I had chosen, that's obviously not enough to jump definitely on conclusions or make a very precise judgment on the sound.

So consider what follows as only a subjective short impression.

I have no doubt this is a system with a fantastic potential anyway. As expected, it sounds immediately very precise and dynamic, without harsness (on the very few tracks I heard), with very deep bass extension and very high SPL if we push it, but I can't tell more and you knew this alreday. Oh, yes, one more thing : the system needs A LOT OF SPACE to breathe, the CC room was, in my opinion, too small though well treated. On several occasions, I felt overwhelmed by the sound and asked to turn down the level (I don't like to listen loud and I mostly appreciate finesse in classical, jazz).

So, for musical pleasure listening in small or middle size rooms, I can't recommend this system, be it with the 8361 B or the 8361 (I won't tell this for for pro sound guys, who sometimes need ultra precise near or midfield listening at high level for a short moment).

But for music lovers, It's kinda of an "overkill", except if you have a (very) large room with good acoustics. In such optimal conditions, these systems rank (probably) among the most impressive and accurate you could buy. How do they precisely compare with other large SOTA systems (for example very large PMC, ATC, Quested, Meyer sound Bluehorn, JBL M2+ sub, well I don't know at all. having not listened to all of these. In the end, beyond a certain level of objective and measured performance, it'all a matter of personal taste, even fot the pro guys.

And what about the difference between the combo equipped with the 51 B or the 61 ? Of course, I noticed too a difference, not huge, but audible. But I can't tell which combo i prefer because I haven't heard a single track I have chosen with the 8361, only with the 8351 B. And the subjective impression of more power and deepness with the 8361, to sum it up an even more impressive and envelopping sound, doesn't mean this is necessarily better. And this impression may be psychologically reinforced by the much more intrusive size of the 8361, we are all aware of visual or psy biases in the listening process. And the SPL level was not precisely equalled between the two combes, the 8361 was used only in the last 15 minutes.

By the way, I was really surprised by the considerable difference of size between these 2 models. The whole system W371A/8361 looks definitely a monster. With the 8351, it looks "only" pretty large.
 
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Bernard 54

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It also makes me wonder if the W371A could be used with a less expensive Genelec monitor with similar results. With a cross-over of up to 500 Hz, it seems that the 8350 (for example), might blend well. I know Genelec doesn't support that option, but it could make the pairing a little more affordable.

The cross-over of the W371A is limited by default to 250hz and can be mounted up to 300Hz for calibration with the 83xx.
The frequency response curve of the W371A probably explains this limitation at 300Hz.

1621541797023.png


Regarding the possibility of using more economical monitors, I think the balance of the system would be compromised. Having been able to listen to the W371A twice with the 8361A and once with the 8351B, I think that lowering performance with the monitor would lead to a qualitative imbalance with the W371A.
I would be really interested if other ASR Forum members could give us a comparative listening W371A + 8351B or 8361A
 

richard12511

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What orientation were they in? And what modes did y’all test?

I’m really thinking 8361(vertical) + W371(complementary) is best for someone who doesn’t want external subs. Size difference is pretty big(as you mention), so the bigger woofer spread combined with lower crossover options, should give you a slightly smoother bass response.

I do think there’s maybe something to be said for the visual difference biasing it towards the bigger speaker which may go away under blind conditions. Something else I’ve found doing my own blinds is that the second speaker played has an advantage, probably due to how our brains work. I’ve compensated for this recently by adding a third speaker and mixing up the order of A/B/C from song to song.

In my use case, I’d be crossing to subs at 100hz, so I’m more interested in controlling the directivity more in that 100-300Hz range(to make it more comparable to the 8C). Did y’all test the 4 directive modes? If so, did y’all test both orientations?
 

galanakop

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I really wonder when you have such a system, what would be ideal for a dac sreamer preamp to combine it with?
 
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Bernard 54

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What orientation were they in? And what modes did y’all test?

I’m really thinking 8361(vertical) + W371(complementary) is best for someone who doesn’t want external subs. Size difference is pretty big(as you mention), so the bigger woofer spread combined with lower crossover options, should give you a slightly smoother bass response.

I do think there’s maybe something to be said for the visual difference biasing it towards the bigger speaker which may go away under blind conditions. Something else I’ve found doing my own blinds is that the second speaker played has an advantage, probably due to how our brains work. I’ve compensated for this recently by adding a third speaker and mixing up the order of A/B/C from song to song.

In my use case, I’d be crossing to subs at 100hz, so I’m more interested in controlling the directivity more in that 100-300Hz range(to make it more comparable to the 8C). Did y’all test the 4 directive modes? If so, did y’all test both orientations?

Thank you richard12511

We only tested the vertical orientation and the complementary mode.
 
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Bernard 54

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galanakop

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[QUOTE = "Bernard 54, post: 788632, member: 31088"] Στην περίπτωσή μου, ελπίζω το NODE 2I με ένα από αυτά:

Δεν χρειάζεστε DAC [/ QUOTE]
Έχω στην κατοχή μου το ifi Pro idsd. Πιστεύεις ότι θα καλυφθώ με αυτό ;;; Μου αρέσει επίσης το aurender n 20 για το μέλλον. Τι λες ???
 

galanakop

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I am now thinking very seriously to go to 8351b / w 371 here in Greece without VAT I will get about 20,000. Not a bit, but I think I will stay here for many years. My space is relatively large 5 meters by 12 meters {60m2. And the listening position is about 3 meters.
I have items 8330/7350 for my office.
I recently heard the ATC SCM50SLT and it was really shocking. In such a case the price I can find is 14,000 euros
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm50aslt/
The truth is that I do not know what I will hear more in relation to my ATC friends. Is this difference worth about 7000 about thousands ???
 
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Tovarich007

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I am now thinking very seriously to go to 8351b / w 371 here in Greece without VAT I will get about 20,000. Not a bit, but I think I will stay here for many years. My space is relatively large 5 meters by 12 meters {60m2. And the listening position is about 3 meters.
I have items 8330/7350 for my office.
I recently heard the ATC SCM50SLT and it was really shocking. In such a case the price I can find is 14,000 euros
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm50aslt/
The truth is that I do not know what I will hear more in relation to my ATC friends. Is this difference worth about 7000 about thousands ???

ATC and Genelec are definitely quite serious firms, but you compare quite different beasts, techically and subjectively, though both excellent.
That's the reason why it's honestly impossible to answer your question. You have your own ears, taste, musical and technical preferences. If you go for ATC, you need to use an external calibration tool, the likes of Dirac, Trinnov, Audissey, ATCs being purely analogue without any DSP, as you probably know.

I recommend you to (try to) organize a real time, level aligned and blind test comparison, at a dealer shop or even better, in your own listening room.

The size of your room could be Ok for the Genelec combo, if well treated. Listening distance of 3 m is a minimum in my opinion. I'd rather go at 3,5/4m. As I wrote above, this kind of large systems need to breathe, and their listeners too.
 

Frgirard

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ATC and Genelec are definitely quite serious firms, but you compare quite different beasts, techically and subjectively, though both excellent.
That's the reason why it's honestly impossible to answer your question. You have your own ears, taste, musical and technical preferences. If you go for ATC, you need to use an external calibration tool, the likes of Dirac, Trinnov, Audissey, ATCs being purely analogue without any DSP, as you probably know.

I recommend you to (try to) organize a real time, level aligned and blind test comparison, at a dealer shop or even better, in your own listening room.

The size of your room could be Ok for the Genelec combo, if well treated. Listening distance of 3 m is a minimum in my opinion. I'd rather go at 3,5/4m. As I wrote above, this kind of large systems need to breathe, and their listeners too.
Atc do not publish measurements, a vertical directivity of 10°, a crossover phase compensation not visible on the resoution magazine measurements ...

Nothing to see with the serious of Genelec.
 

Frank Dernie

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Atc do not publish measurements, a vertical directivity of 10°, a crossover phase compensation not visible on the resoution magazine measurements ...

Nothing to see with the serious of Genelec.
Very true but the Genelec monitors suitable for mid range and "main monitor" duties, the only ones I would consider for my use at home, are not available in such nice looking finishes as ATCs, and one can, and should, listen to see if the benefits are worthwhile in your own situation.
At least the ME-Geithian speakers are available in a range of veneers and without handles if you want to use them at home, and several are suitable for domestic listening distances.
 

daftcombo

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Good evening everyone.
As expected, Tovarich007 and I attended a new listening to the W371A today in the Centre Chopin. We had the opportunity to compare the 8361A with the 8351B.
Tovarich007 will give you a feedback on his listening.
As far as I am concerned, and contrary to what I expected, I did not find with the 8351B the same impressions as those felt with the 8361A.
In my opinion, the bass quality of the 8361A is clearly a plus compared to the 8351B and the W371A does not make up for this difference.
The feeling of "goosebumps" and immersion in music are in my opinion a plus provided by the 8361A.
I did not feel on my side the advantage provided by the Frequency Response of the 8351B more precise than that of the 8361A.
Hi,
Is it possible to go and listen to that system easily at the Chopin Center? Is it free, does one have to book?
 

Pearljam5000

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I am now thinking very seriously to go to 8351b / w 371 here in Greece without VAT I will get about 20,000. Not a bit, but I think I will stay here for many years. My space is relatively large 5 meters by 12 meters {60m2. And the listening position is about 3 meters.
I have items 8330/7350 for my office.
I recently heard the ATC SCM50SLT and it was really shocking. In such a case the price I can find is 14,000 euros
http://atcloudspeakers.co.uk/hi-fi/loudspeakers/tower-series/scm50aslt/
The truth is that I do not know what I will hear more in relation to my ATC friends. Is this difference worth about 7000 about thousands ???
Can you compare Genelec 8351B and ATC?
 
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Bernard 54

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Hi,
Is it possible to go and listen to that system easily at the Chopin Center? Is it free, does one have to book?

Call David for me to book a listening session
 

richard12511

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Tank you richard12511

We only tested the vertical orientation and the complementary mode.

Gotcha! I'm thinking that due to the way complimentary mode works, the 8361 in vertical mode should give the best results. The highest and lowest woofers are ~65"(165cm) apart. Also the stronger woofers should be able to accommodate a lower crossover point if that's what works best for the room.
 
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