Frequency response can not explain something, but at least, is not useless.

[TuneInSoul]

Since English is not my native language,hope you can understand.
There is a test I took recently on this website http://www.szynalski.com/tone-generator/

This website can generate certain tone to test headphones.

Then I tried to listen 100hz sine wave 's sound on this website with two pairs of headphones, and they are Beyerdynamic dt880 and Sony mdr-z7.
BUT I found the sound from the two pairs of headphones above at around 100hz frequency are nearly completely DIFFERENT.

Although the test is not strict, I think it Not only because of the sound pressure level.
Frequency response really helps me a lot when I choose headphones, and I know it is not useless, if the frequency response is too bad, the sound must has some flaws.

Then I want to ask :
1. what other factors affect the sound of the test? I know there must be a lot.
2. how the latest science and technology measure sound?
3. what level does sound science reach now?

 

[RayDunzl]

what other factors affect the sound of the test?

100Hz sine on one headphone could have harmonics (harmonic distortion) that might make it sound "richer" than the one with less or no audible harmonic distortion.

 

[Ron Texas]

100Hz sine on one headphone could have harmonics (harmonic distortion) that might make it sound "richer" than the one with less or no audible harmonic distortion.

A lot depends on how that sine wave was generated. I have a strong hunch (from listening) that several internet tone generator sites develop large amounts of harmonic distortion. These things are not hardware tone generators.

 

[amirm]

I quickly did a test between two very different headphones and the sound is very similar. There is a slight overtone in one which makes it a bit higher pitched. The biggest difference by far is the level due to varying sensitivity. When I have time I can measure the output of the two headphones and report back.

 

[RayDunzl]

A lot depends on how that sine wave was generated.

The generator above appears to be audibly clean on my PC when operated at 98% or less.

There are harmonics present in the display (wherever they are coming from) at 99 and 100%.

98% setting:

99 and 100%

 

[TuneInSoul]

OK, the tone is quite similar maybe, but my mdr z7 sounds "darker" than dt880 . I feel more depressive. Maybe because z7 is closed, and dt880 is open.
The imaging of the two is different, z7 is bigger.
I don't know how to describe it , If there is a ab test I think I can easily pass.

 

[TuneInSoul]

I quickly did a test between two very different headphones and the sound is very similar.

OK, the tone is quite similar maybe, but my mdr z7 sounds "darker" than dt880 . I feel more depressive. Maybe because z7 is closed, and dt880 is open.
The imaging of the two is different, z7 is bigger.
I don't know how to describe it , If there is a ab test I think I can easily pass.

 

[TuneInSoul]

100Hz sine on one headphone could have harmonics (harmonic distortion) that might make it sound "richer" than the one with less or no audible harmonic distortion.

thanks.

 

[solderdude]

The darker 'tone' of the Z7 opposite the DT880 is for the biggest part FR related. These measure and sound very different and is the reason why there are so many headphones around. There is bound to be one (or more) that 'suits' ones preference.

How loud did you play ? How well was the seal ? What amplifier was used ? What version of the DT880 ?

I am sure I can pass any double blind AB test between these headphones as well.
Anybody can.

Most headphones sound (very) different and often feel different.
The latter (feel different) is not entirely true when A-Bing HD580, HD58X, HD600, HD6XX, HD650 though or the Beyer DT770, DT880, DT990 range etc.

But you are right in the fact that all headphones sound different. Even when the FR 'measures' almost or even exactly the same on ANY measurement rig. Because A: FR doesn't tell the whole story. B: No ear/hearing is the same as ANY measurement system so we really don't know what 'flat' is for headphones.
Not even using the most expensive test rig on this planet. Even that one is 'calibrated' incorrectly.
One could say: All headphone measurement are basically, irreparably, and fundamentally wrong in the output they show, some more than others.
And on top of that all impressions of the same headphone by different people can differ substantially for a myriad of reasons.

There is no 'one' truth as in measuring electronic equipment.

 

[TuneInSoul]

How loud did you play ? How well was the seal ? What amplifier was used ? What version of the DT880 ?

the dac is topping d50
amp is fostex hp a8
dt880 250ohm ,not chrome version

 

[solderdude]

O.K., we can rule out amp clipping.
Why not use the internal HP-A8 DAC, seems capable enough ?

 

[TuneInSoul]

O.K., we can rule out amp clipping.
Why not use the internal HP-A8 DAC, seems capable enough ?

the DAC Chip and XMOS chip of D50 are better

 

[Ron Texas]

@RayDunzl what software or hardware are you using to do the measurement? Just curious.

 

[Soniclife]

The darker 'tone' of the Z7 opposite the DT880 is for the biggest part FR related. These measure and sound very different and is the reason why there are so many headphones around. There is bound to be one (or more) that 'suits' ones preference.

How loud did you play ? How well was the seal ? What amplifier was used ? What version of the DT880 ?

I am sure I can pass any double blind AB test between these headphones as well.
Anybody can.

Most headphones sound (very) different and often feel different.
The latter (feel different) is not entirely true when A-Bing HD580, HD58X, HD600, HD6XX, HD650 though or the Beyer DT770, DT880, DT990 range etc.

But you are right in the fact that all headphones sound different. Even when the FR 'measures' almost or even exactly the same on ANY measurement rig. Because A: FR doesn't tell the whole story. B: No ear/hearing is the same as ANY measurement system so we really don't know what 'flat' is for headphones.
Not even using the most expensive test rig on this planet. Even that one is 'calibrated' incorrectly.
One could say: All headphone measurement are basically, irreparably, and fundamentally wrong in the output they show, some more than others.
And on top of that all impressions of the same headphone by different people can differ substantially for a myriad of reasons.

There is no 'one' truth as in measuring electronic equipment.

As I read his posts he isn't comparing the phones over the full audio range, but when they are both playing only a 100hz test signal, where you would expect them to sound the same, if level matched at 100hz. As Amir says, distortion could account for differences.

 

[solderdude]

That was my initial thought too but later (before my reply) he said:

OK, the tone is quite similar maybe,

and then proceeds with

but my mdr z7 sounds "darker" than dt880 . I feel more depressive. Maybe because z7 is closed, and dt880 is open.

This, to me, indicates he is talking about the headphone itself and the sound of it (with music).

Of course, when he is talking about the 100Hz tone only it is obvious distortion or seal is the culprit.

Then he mentions:

The imaging of the two is different, z7 is bigger.

which is something that describes the music sound of the headphone.
It could be the left and right being out of phase with one headphone but is unlikely. I don't know anyone who can describe sound width by a 100Hz sinewave.

The level match thing is important too and is unlikely this was matched. This too means that even with a single 100Hz tone differences could be heard as headphones often do increase in distortion at louder levels and hearing also is suspect.

This lead me to my reply. It may be based on the wrong impression I got...

 

[TuneInSoul]

I didn't explain it clearly.

This, to me, indicates he is talking about the headphone itself and the sound of it (with music).

The "darker" sound, I mean I feel more depressive or sad when I heard the 100hz sine wave of z7 ? I don't know. Not the treble is less.

I don't know anyone who can describe sound width by a 100Hz sinewave.

It may because the volume is not same, I don't have any professional devices, so I got an unclear impression, I want to share the impression, I think it may be useful in the future test.

 

[RayDunzl]

@RayDunzl what software or hardware are you using to do the measurement? Just curious

Play the tone through "speakers" but route the digits internally in the PC to REW.

 

[Viper Necklampy]

The darker 'tone' of the Z7 opposite the DT880 is for the biggest part FR related. These measure and sound very different and is the reason why there are so many headphones around. There is bound to be one (or more) that 'suits' ones preference.

How loud did you play ? How well was the seal ? What amplifier was used ? What version of the DT880 ?

I am sure I can pass any double blind AB test between these headphones as well.
Anybody can.

Most headphones sound (very) different and often feel different.
The latter (feel different) is not entirely true when A-Bing HD580, HD58X, HD600, HD6XX, HD650 though or the Beyer DT770, DT880, DT990 range etc.

But you are right in the fact that all headphones sound different. Even when the FR 'measures' almost or even exactly the same on ANY measurement rig. Because A: FR doesn't tell the whole story. B: No ear/hearing is the same as ANY measurement system so we really don't know what 'flat' is for headphones.
Not even using the most expensive test rig on this planet. Even that one is 'calibrated' incorrectly.
One could say: All headphone measurement are basically, irreparably, and fundamentally wrong in the output they show, some more than others.
And on top of that all impressions of the same headphone by different people can differ substantially for a myriad of reasons.

There is no 'one' truth as in measuring electronic equipment.

What if is not about making flat sound about our ears, but making the sound as real life sounds like? So it will doesn't matter how our ears are different, of course on real life the sound frequencies are already determinated, so it's all about letting make the headphones reproduce the sound as flat is in real life, no matter what our hearing will encode.. So, if there is a testing method that can really say if the frequencies are what they should be in real life with appropriate recoders, flat question is resolved, and we have reached the final point of the ''right/flat frequencies sounding of speakers/headphones" no matter what our hearing will bypass, as the ears will bypass even real life sounds.. Hope to be understood, for my not great language