Extreme Snake Oil

[mansr]

I think you are getting Shunyata and Synergystic Research confused. Surely the latter is the top in snake oil extremism.

Two ends of the same snake.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Audiophile crystals and Rocks FTW!

http://www.adventuresinhifiaudio.com/26/01/2018/audiophile-rocks-down-the-rabbit-hole-once-again/

That's a parody, right?

RIGHT?!

 

[Geoffkait]

High end Mapleshade interconnects have 54 gauge conductors. Would they be classified as snake oil? Also, most high end cable manufacturers employ cryogenics. Would that be classified as snake oil, too? Or do they get a pass?

 

[Inner Space]

High end Mapleshade interconnects have 54 gauge conductors. Would they be classified as snake oil? Also, most high end cable manufacturers employ cryogenics. Would that be classified as snake oil, too? Or do they get a pass?

Geoff, here's what I would like to understand: if you need intricately constructed, cryogenically treated wire to get the last vestiges of nuance and beauty off the CD, how did that nuance and beauty get on the CD in the first place? You can be sure the recording studio used whatever adequate wire was cheapest at the time. Can you help me with what seems like a fundamental contradiction?

 

[Geoffkait]

It’s not really a contradiction. You can always do better, even on the recording side. You get what you get. In fact some if not many recording studios, like Mapleshade, do employ high end audiophile techniques such as room treatments, highly specialized cables, tube electronics, cable break-in devices, cryogenics, cable elevators, isolation, damping, you know the drill.

 

[Inner Space]

You can always do better, even on the recording side.

That's my point. The recording side isn't doing "better", in your terms. So, if magic wire is necessary to get stuff out of the recording, how did that stuff get into the recording in. the first place? You didn't answer that.

 

[Geoffkait]

Yes and no, as I said some recording studios do better than others. Moment! and Water Lilly spring to mind, I’m 100% sure other studios are also interested in these sorts of things, you know, how to get the best sound. I also suspect the main problems in sound generally at at home, there‘s much to be done.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

highly specialized cables, tube electronics, cable break-in devices, cryogenics, cable elevators, isolation, damping, you know the drill.

1) "highly specialized cables" -> maybe but more for advertisement in the audioderp sector than actual sonic characteristics
2) "tube electronics" -> I could see this one happening for artistic reasons, these devices often come with a baked-in signature (EQ, THD profile)
3) "cable break-in devices, cryogenics, cable elevators" -> so sane sound engineer will waste their time with this kind of nonsense. Perhaps Management wants it for point 1 but I doubt it.
4) "isolation, damping" -> well cables need to be isolated in order to not short out, so sure.... damping? No clue what you mean by that. Shock damping? Why would a cable be subjected to mechanical forces worth damping in the first place?

I also suspect the main problems in sound generally at at home, there‘s much to be done.

The main problem is the room, not the equipment.
The room clobbers any "carefully crafted" response your system might have.
Next would be your ears. Human ears are not sensitive enough to distinguish between electronics and wiring.

That's my point. The recording side isn't doing "better", in your terms. So, if magic wire is necessary to get stuff out of the recording, how did that stuff get into the recording in. the first place? You didn't answer that.

Psst, don't tell him that his magical music runs through friggin lowest cost printed cardboard wiring before arriving at the terminals of his device and being fed into the magic wire. *chuckles*

 

[egellings]

The audio snake oil is similar to the food & health supplement varieties. It's hard to accurately & repeatably measure a person's response to a perceived difference in examples of either kind of product. If you believe, you're in! That's all it takes.

 

[Geoffkait]

Gee, I haven’t seen so many logical fallacies in one place since I left Kalamazoo.

 

[Aerith Gainsborough]

Gee, I haven’t seen so many logical fallacies in one place since I left Kalamazoo.

It's okay. You do not have to believe the science that engineers use to like ... build audio reproduction and recording equipment.
You can choose to live in voodooland if that gives you warm, fuzzy feelings in your ears.

After all, we do have the luxury of choice. For now, at least.

 

[Geoffkait]

The one-two punch. Ouch!! Double Ouch!!

 

[StuartC]

Site rules governing prohibited topics prevent me from making any statements regarding the purveyors and organisations that peddle belief systems to the masses.

I wonder if this post will be allowed to stay?

 

[Blumlein 88]

That's my point. The recording side isn't doing "better", in your terms. So, if magic wire is necessary to get stuff out of the recording, how did that stuff get into the recording in. the first place? You didn't answer that.

 

[Somafunk]

There’s a new audiophoo product from Audioquest, noise stopper caps, rave review of them from positive feedback #1online woo-woo bullshitter

 

[MattHooper]

Geoff, here's what I would like to understand: if you need intricately constructed, cryogenically treated wire to get the last vestiges of nuance and beauty off the CD, how did that nuance and beauty get on the CD in the first place? You can be sure the recording studio used whatever adequate wire was cheapest at the time. Can you help me with what seems like a fundamental contradiction?

I've been over that one many times with GeoffK and the audiogon crew (and Hoffman forum etc). As you can see there is no actual answer.
At best they always wave toward a studio or two with audiophile cred, who may buy in to a certain level of audiophile nonsense.

But in reality we all know that almost the entirety of most audiophile's listening diet is made up of recordings - including many heralded audiophile classics - made with bog-standard cabling. Actually nightmares if the audiophiles really saw the state of the cables and how they were used in many recordings (especially live).

The Fundamental Contradiction: Every single bit of nuance and detail any new High End Cable 'reveals' in an audiphile's system simultaneously proves the standard quality cables used in the recordings were perfectly capable of transmitting that same signal.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

View attachment 139490

Papa Legba. come and ride your horse!

 

[phoenixdogfan]

It's like old Chuck Dickens said, it's both "the best of times and the worst of times."

If your are an audiophile with $10K USD to spend, you could buy a box of dirt (Special dirt! Really, really special dirt!) providing cloud-parting, heaven opening, revelatory sonic improvement, or you could buy a pair of Dutch and Dutch 8C Studios.

Your choice.

 

[CSG]

This place is such a breath of fresh air compared to some other popular sites where to question snake oil subjects one to public derision.

 

[fieldcar]

This place is such a breath of fresh air compared to some other popular sites where to question snake oil subjects one to public derision.

How dare you insult one of our 45 sponsors that pay to put tiled adverts littered upon our free and open discussion forum slash review site!

Every time I go to one of those sites, I just keep thinking to myself how distasteful it all really is.