Emotiva Introduces BasX MR1 Home Theater Receiver

[VMAT4]

This piece features a Sharc DSP chip and Class H power amplification. It, unfortunately, uses EmoQ room correction as opposed to Dirac.

I have to wonder why not a 2.1 receiver with Dirac and Class H power amplification? I posted a poll on their forums some years ago about whether the company should produce a Dirac enabled 2.1 pre amp. No was the consensus.

This company, which made its name in the power amp arena, offers some very good speakers. But really hasn't for some reason managed good pre amp design. I wonder why. They have to know, IMHO.

 

[ChalupaRiddems]

Yeah emoQ vs Dirac was surprising to me. Also the relatively old HDMI standard. It seems designed to be used as a glorified sound bar, relying on eARC.

Still, I'd be interested to see it tested properly. I'm in the market for a 11 + 2 processor/amp/receiver and the options just seem to be all over the place.

Related - I wonder if there's any way to objectively evaluate the quality of room correction tools...

 

[TonyJZX]

dirac is a $200 base license fee before any circuitry is added isnt it?

This could be the best 11.2 receiver in the world... until Emotiva decide to EOL it prematurely....

Emotiva are using a China OEM to get this thing off the ground and its always gonna be a hard road for processors. I mean look how hard it is for Onkyo and even companies like Parasound gave up.

 

[buz]

Yeah emoQ vs Dirac was surprising to me. Also the relatively old HDMI standard. It seems designed to be used as a glorified sound bar, relying on eARC.

That's how I use my HDMI 2.1 receiver. Unless you need tons of HDMI ports, there is no obvious reason not to. And even if you do, a HDMI switch might be easier...

 

[NOAMattD]

cheapaudioman interview with Dan from Emotiva about multiple topics including the MR1. Didn't find it encouraging to hear their philosophy going forward WRT home theater / projector applications

 

[techsamurai]

Do we know the price?

 

[techsamurai]

Okay, it's $2,000 - no HDMI 2.1 but 11 channels @100 watts - this probably outshines the 8015 and competes with the Rotel.

 

[techsamurai]

Emotiva are using a China OEM to get this thing off the ground and its always gonna be a hard road for processors. I mean look how hard it is for Onkyo and even companies like Parasound gave up.

What part are they using from China?

 

[Rottmannash]

What part are they using from China?

Emotiva is located about a 15 min drive from where I live. I can't say for sure but I believe others have noted their previous processors were near identical clones of Tonewinner products.

 

[Dj7675]

Okay, it's $2,000 - no HDMI 2.1 but 11 channels @100 watts - this probably outshines the 8015 and competes with the Rotel.

In what way would it outshine the 8015?
Objective measurements? Doubtful, as the 8015 hast tested very well.
Features? Nope. Denon/Marantz have a ton of very useful features that are quite useful including loudness (DEQ)
Useablity-Very unlikely. Denon/Marantz are quite bulletproof and UI is very fast and responsive
EQ-Nope. Automated EQ on the tonewinner based products is very bad. On the plus side, they do offer manual EQ which could be a preference to some. Their omission of Dirac/DLBC was a huge miss for them and a missed opportunity if they had any chance of making waves with this product.
Subwoofer EQ-Nope. Nothing. Audyssey does a good job with EQ on subs. You will be stuck with manual EQ with subs. For some this is fine, but for many this is difficult to get right.
Support/Warranty/Bug free-That just hasn’t been the case with past Emotiva processors. Maybe that will change but until actual users start to use it, I would be skeptical.
Andy why are we saying that Rotel is the benchmark to be compared to? Has it been showed to be better than a Denon 4700 for example? If so in what way?

 

[techsamurai]

In what way would it outshine the 8015?
Objective measurements? Doubtful, as the 8015 hast tested very well.

I'm not saying the 8015 hasn't tested well. I'm using it as an example. You're assuming this will test bad.

Features? Nope. Denon/Marantz have a ton of very useful features that are quite useful including loudness (DEQ)

Yes, they have more features but the Emotiva seems a bit easier to use. The Channel Volume Adjustment buttons on the remote are pretty cool especially for the center channel

Useablity-Very unlikely. Denon/Marantz are quite bulletproof and UI is very fast and responsive

I agree - they are pretty good

EQ-Nope. Automated EQ on the tonewinner based products is very bad. On the plus side, they do offer manual EQ which could be a preference to some. Their omission of Dirac/DLBC was a huge missfor them and a missed opportunity if they had any chance of making waves with this product.

The EQ on the Emotiva is not terrible. Distance is perfect. PEQ allows for real-time changes and is ridiculously simple.

I agree Dirac would have been nice but Dirac is half the solution. You need DLBC and that's another $700 or $850 and at some point EQ gets ridiculous. You're at the mercy of the mic, you have to know exactly where to position the mic and move it 2 inches in each direction. There's a whole crazy process. I feel like I'm trying to play a video game at 60fps and have to change every setting. That's why I don't touch PCs anymore. You're not playing games, you're working as a tester for the game developers.

Subwoofer EQ-Nope. Nothing. Audyssey does a good job with EQ on subs. You will be stuck with manual EQ with subs. For some this is fine, but for many this is difficult to get right.

From a person that had the Cinema 40 and much more expensive gear than 99% of folks here, he thought it did a good job with the bass. He kept the Emotiva, sent the Cinema 40 back.

Support/Warranty/Bug free-That just hasn’t been the case with past Emotiva processors. Maybe that will change but until actual users start to use it, I would be skeptical.
Andy why are we saying that Rotel is the benchmark to be compared to? Has it been showed to be better than a Denon 4700 for example? If so in what way?

Agree- it's more important for an AVR to be stable as sound quality can never make up for instability. There are no bugs as far as I know with the MR1 except for some sort of Dolby Vision issue with a particular app through Plex. I'm not an early adopter so by the time I would buy it, there'll be half a dozen professional reviews of the unit. I would have loved for the Emotiva to have a 5 year warranty though.

You forgot to mention power and the Emotiva beats the Marantz and also capacitance, cooling (longevity) and last but not least price. You can buy 2 Emotivas for the price of 1 8015.

 

[techsamurai]

Emotiva is located about a 15 min drive from where I live. I can't say for sure but I believe others have noted their previous processors were near identical clones of Tonewinner products.

Do we know the relationship there? Are they mimicking the design like the Japanese used to do or are they collaborating? I see nothing wrong with either approach.

The million dollar question is do we know if the Tonewinner products are any good and are the Emotivas better or worse? They seem well-built - they're using a Panasonic chip and Cirrus Logic Crystal DAC which I personaly don't mind as my Marantz AVRs have them.

 

[Dj7675]

The EQ on the Emotiva is not terrible. Distance is perfect. PEQ allows for real-time changes and is ridiculously simple.

For those that know how to use REW it can be done. For average user, it is not ridiclously easy as you have to have good reliable manual measurements. Sucess will be dependent on the user skills in applying EQ and measuring. I believe the manual EQ is it's best feature for those inclined to do manual measurements apply the EQ and listen for the results. But let's not kid ourselves. To do complete manual EQ for all speakers and subs and blending crossovers between all speakers etc, is a very large task.

You need DLBC and that's another $700 or $850 and at some point EQ gets ridiculous. You're at the mercy of the mic, you have to know exactly where to position the mic and move it 2 inches in each direction.

Full DLBC is $499. Some processors include full range Dirac at no charge, and some offer limited correction for free. I don't know what you are talking about on mic position. It is not difficult at all. You can follow the Dirac guide positions or do a different pattern. With multiple positions, it just uses an average to apply EQ.

From a person that had the Cinema 40 and much more expensive gear than 99% of folks here, he thought it did a good job with the bass. He kept the Emotiva, sent the Cinema 40 back.

Subjective experiences of a single individual are meaninless. I own the Stormaudio MKII. I like it a lot for the fact that it has 24 channels installed, DLBC, WebUI, manual PEQ, etc. But my opinion means no more or less because I have owned it or any other brand. People put way to much stock in single users opionions..

You forgot to mention power and the Emotiva beats the Marantz and also capacitance, cooling (longevity) and last but not least price. You can buy 2 Emotivas for the price of 1 8015.

I would take everything said with a grain of salt until a large enough sampling of users are using it. Reading through the past myriad of issues with Emotiva over the years, I would be most concerned with stability, speed using menus, reliability, firmware updates etc... I have been rooting for Emotiva but their processors have either lacked important features (DLBC), bugs or firmware issues, and missed promise dates, features. YMMV

 

[techsamurai]

For those that know how to use REW it can be done. For average user, it is not ridiclously easy as you have to have good reliable manual measurements. Sucess will be dependent on the user skills in applying EQ and measuring. I believe the manual EQ is it's best feature for those inclined to do manual measurements apply the EQ and listen for the results. But let's not kid ourselves. To do complete manual EQ for all speakers and subs and blending crossovers between all speakers etc, is a very large task.

How many people who buy AVRs use REW? Most people don't even run Audyssey or use the mic or switch from chair to chair. Apparently, for Audyssey you're supposed to use a high quality mic with a special stand and move the mic 2 inches away. I had no idea

Full DLBC is $499. Some processors include full range Dirac at no charge, and some offer limited correction for free. I don't know what you are talking about on mic position. It is not difficult at all. You can follow the Dirac guide positions or do a different pattern. With multiple positions, it just uses an average to apply EQ.

Full DLBC at $499 isn't much when you own a Storm Audio but it's 25% of the price of the Emotiva. It's also $850 over the Cinema 50. Beaucoup bucks for additional room correction.

Subjective experiences of a single individual are meaninless. I own the Stormaudio MKII. I like it a lot for the fact that it has 24 channels installed, DLBC, WebUI, manual PEQ, etc. But my opinion means no more or less because I have owned it or any other brand. People put way to much stock in single users opionions..

I hear you but if you have the Cinema 40 and are switching and comparing it to the Emotiva RM1, that is a pretty good test that I can't simulate. If the person feels the Emotiva is as good, then I would think it would sound the same for me. Clearly the person liked Marantz sound and if I recall he didn't like McIntosh or some Jbl expensive model.

I would take everything said with a grain of salt until a large enough sampling of users are using it. Reading through the past myriad of issues with Emotiva over the years, I would be most concerned with stability, speed using menus, reliability, firmware updates etc... I have been rooting for Emotiva but their processors have either lacked important features (DLBC), bugs or firmware issues, and missed promise dates, features. YMMV

I agree, stability is paramount but stability is not something that takes years to test. If the PS5 works with it, it works with it, if Apple TV works with it, it works with it. You test all your devices and you'll know. Granted, not everyone has Kaleidascape so that may need special testing but I don't have it either ;-)

 

[Dj7675]

How many people who buy AVRs use REW?

This is exactly my point. EQ will have to be done by hand and have to be measured in order to have any meaningful EQ applied. If you are just doing it by ear you will go in circles. By not include Dirac, they are telling average users they need to learn how to apply EQ in order to know what PEQ filters to use. This is possible but many don't want to do this.

Apparently, for Audyssey you're supposed to use a high quality mic with a special stand and move the mic 2 inches away. I had no idea

This makes no sense. No idea what you mean. Both Dirac and Audyssey have a simple image to help with where to put the mic. With Dirac, most will need to purchase a Umik-1 but Audyssey provides the mic included. There is no way around the fact that to properly EQ a system (automated or manual) you need to measure. With Audyssey and Dirac, it is not hard to do. Have you tried to use either Audyssey or Dirac yet? See image below for Dirac and Audyssey has there own guide. The images are just a guide and super precise measurements are not necessary as they are setting distance/delays with the first measurement and getting a spatially averaged response with all the measurements.

Full DLBC at $499 isn't much when you own a Storm Audio but it's 25% of the price of the Emotiva. It's also $850 over the Cinema 50. Beaucoup bucks for additional room correction.

$499 is the normal price. It is included with Storm (and should be due to the price). It is also included with the JBL SDP-55. For others from Arcam and Monoprice it is $499. Denon/Marantz have made it even more expensive if one chooses Dirac (or they can stick with Audyssey).

I hear you but if you have the Cinema 40 and are switching and comparing it to the Emotiva RM1, that is a pretty good test that I can't simulate. If the person feels the Emotiva is as good, then I would think it would sound the same for me. Clearly the person liked Marantz sound and if I recall he didn't like McIntosh or some Jbl expensive model.

Relying on 1 person because what that 1 person hears is just not a good idea at all. I would put money on, with no EQ applied and precisely level matched, they could not hear the difference in a blind test. And there really isn't anything such as "Marantz Sound" or Denon Sound or McIntosh Sound. We have measurements that show exactly that... flat frequency response in the audible band, distortion below audibility and noise level on most of these processors that make them indistinguishable from each other. I would expect my Stormaudio MK2 to sound the same for example as a Denon x3700. Where things differ are number of channels, EQ system, features, usability, flexibility and many other things. If you do end up purchasing it I would be interested in your experience as I am always hoping things improve with Emotiva processors.

 

[techsamurai]

This is exactly my point. EQ will have to be done by hand and have to be measured in order to have any meaningful EQ applied. If you are just doing it by ear you will go in circles. By not include Dirac, they are telling average users they need to learn how to apply EQ in order to know what PEQ filters to use. This is possible but many don't want to do this.

If the EMO-Q does a decent job of flattening the response, would it not decent Room correction EQ?

This makes no sense. No idea what you mean. Both Dirac and Audyssey have a simple image to help with where to put the mic. With Dirac, most will need to purchase a Umik-1 but Audyssey provides the mic included. There is no way around the fact that to properly EQ a system (automated or manual) you need to measure. With Audyssey and Dirac, it is not hard to do. Have you tried to use either Audyssey or Dirac yet? See image below for Dirac and Audyssey has there own guide. The images are just a guide and super precise measurements are not necessary as they are setting distance/delays with the first measurement and getting a spatially averaged response with all the measurements.

Most folks with Audyssey, like me, put the mic that was provided at different seats (up to 6 or 8) and then calculate it. There's a video explaining that you should not be doing that. First, the mic quality and tripod matter - second you pick your main seat and move 2 inches left and right from the exact same spot going to 4 and then up to 6. And then you calculate for those 1-2 seats and that's it.

$499 is the normal price. It is included with Storm (and should be due to the price). It is also included with the JBL SDP-55. For others from Arcam and Monoprice it is $499. Denon/Marantz have made it even more expensive if one chooses Dirac (or they can stick with Audyssey).

Dirac is very expensive and it's not the full product for most AVRs unless you don't use a sub or two.

Relying on 1 person because what that 1 person hears is just not a good idea at all. I would put money on, with no EQ applied and precisely level matched, they could not hear the difference in a blind test. And there really isn't anything such as "Marantz Sound" or Denon Sound or McIntosh Sound. We have measurements that show exactly that... flat frequency response in the audible band, distortion below audibility and noise level on most of these processors that make them indistinguishable from each other. I would expect my Stormaudio MK2 to sound the same for example as a Denon x3700. Where things differ are number of channels, EQ system, features, usability, flexibility and many other things. If you do end up purchasing it I would be interested in your experience as I am always hoping things improve with Emotiva processors.

Well, if I purchase it, I'd be 1 person so my opinion wouldn't matter, right?

Well, my experience switching 3 amps was that they sounded different (Marantz -> Denon -> Marantz). I'm pretty sure I'd find a Sony and an Emotiva to be different.

 

[Chrispy]

Okay, it's $2,000 - no HDMI 2.1 but 11 channels @100 watts - this probably outshines the 8015 and competes with the Rotel.

How would that put it ahead of the 8015?

 

[Dj7675]

If the EMO-Q does a decent job of flattening the response, would it not decent Room correction EQ?

Not reviewed but if it is the same one in the Tonewinner, it is bad (at lease from reading multiple owners on AVSforum) But we need to see results to confirm it is the same and if not what the results are. I don't think you can assume it is good.

Most folks with Audyssey, like me, put the mic that was provided at different seats (up to 6 or 8) and then calculate it. There's a video explaining that you should not be doing that. First, the mic quality and tripod matter - second you pick your main seat and move 2 inches left and right from the exact same spot going to 4 and then up to 6. And then you calculate for those 1-2 seats and that's it.

This is not the standard procedure and not recommended by Audyssey. There is a reason for that. It is a bad idea as it will not give you a good spatially averaged measurement. It will result in over correction. There are a bazillion people that think they have the magic bullet with mic placements when there really isn't one. A random mic placement in the seating area will work fine with enough points, or follow the manufacturer recommendations. But I wouldn't follow a guy saying to move just a few inches as it is just a bad idea.

Dirac is very expensive and it's not the full product for most AVRs unless you don't use a sub or two.

I do partially agree with this. Dirac does work with subs without DLBC and may or may not do a good job. I have used it without DLBC with another processor and it didn't do that well in my case. DLBC does make it a complete solution and works very well. Many people, however do get good results with Audyssey as well, but after using both Dirac with DLBC is better with blending speakers/sub and better bass response over a larger area.

 

[techsamurai]

Not reviewed but if it is the same one in the Tonewinner, it is bad (at lease from reading multiple owners on AVSforum) But we need to see results to confirm it is the same and if not what the results are. I don't think you can assume it is good.

Yeah, I'd love to know if their room correction is any good. I have to assume it does something with the measurements. Hopefully, it's not willy-nilly applying changes.

One nice thing about the Emo-Q is that I believe you can actually test each modification live and play with it although I'm not sure how you would do that with anything other than stereo for the left and right channels. Of primary concern would be the center channel and I'm not sure how you'd test that. Play multi-channel music and disconnect all the other channels?

Here's an interesting comparison of Audyssey XT and XT32. The reviewer apparently couldn't hear a difference once the 2nd sub was set up with MiniDSP

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/audyssey-xt-vs-audyssey-xt32-with-actual-rew-measurements.3261684/

It would be nice to see the same with Emo-q and even a comparison of Audyssey XT32 vs Emo-q or other room correction technologies.

In your opinion, would you say Room Correction is the #1 audio feature of an AVR?

This is not the standard procedure and not recommended by Audyssey. There is a reason for that. It is a bad idea as it will not give you a good spatially averaged measurement. It will result in over correction. There are a bazillion people that think they have the magic bullet with mic placements when there really isn't one. A random mic placement in the seating area will work fine with enough points, or follow the manufacturer recommendations. But I wouldn't follow a guy saying to move just a few inches as it is just a bad idea.

They talk about it here - it's about 20 inches from the primary listening position

I don't know if they are right but I fail to see how any software can correct for 8 different seats and provide optimal results. I would expect it to provide compromised results.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

I'm not saying the 8015 hasn't tested well. I'm using it as an example. You're assuming this will test bad.


Yes, they have more features but the Emotiva seems a bit easier to use. The Channel Volume Adjustment buttons on the remote are pretty cool especially for the center channel


I agree - they are pretty good


The EQ on the Emotiva is not terrible. Distance is perfect. PEQ allows for real-time changes and is ridiculously simple.

I agree Dirac would have been nice but Dirac is half the solution. You need DLBC and that's another $700 or $850 and at some point EQ gets ridiculous. You're at the mercy of the mic, you have to know exactly where to position the mic and move it 2 inches in each direction. There's a whole crazy process. I feel like I'm trying to play a video game at 60fps and have to change every setting. That's why I don't touch PCs anymore. You're not playing games, you're working as a tester for the game developers.


From a person that had the Cinema 40 and much more expensive gear than 99% of folks here, he thought it did a good job with the bass. He kept the Emotiva, sent the Cinema 40 back.



Agree- it's more important for an AVR to be stable as sound quality can never make up for instability. There are no bugs as far as I know with the MR1 except for some sort of Dolby Vision issue with a particular app through Plex. I'm not an early adopter so by the time I would buy it, there'll be half a dozen professional reviews of the unit. I would have loved for the Emotiva to have a 5 year warranty though.

You forgot to mention power and the Emotiva beats the Marantz and also capacitance, cooling (longevity) and last but not least price. You can buy 2 Emotivas for the price of 1 8015.

Yea, the channel adjustment feature for center is convenient and mandatory due to terrible room correction. My experience with room correction for center channel intelligibility has been dismal until I paid the premium for Anthem Room Correction. Maybe Dirac can match. I don't know and will not try. Decades of frustration with Audyssey burned me out.