Does anybody really know what makes turntables hum?

[Ricardus]

Here's something: If I grasp the tone arm between my thumb and forefinger the hum recedes to an ignorable level. I'd love to hear one of you slide-rulers explain that to me.

Always somebody wants to hear "full details of this "normal" equipment, up to and including the amplification and how things are plugged in for power". Like grounding principles are different if there's a different name on the nameplate. I think that they're really just voyeurs who want to hear all the details so they can

What's with the attitude?

 

[fpitas]

What's with the attitude?

He knows we like being abused. It's very kind of him.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Slide rules are cool, ...

Much cooler when you call one a "slipstick."

Or much less, depending on perspective.

 

[computer-audiophile]

Much cooler when you call one a "slipstick."

Please help me to interpret this.

 

[RayDunzl]

Slide rules are cool, never knew how they worked but cool nevertheless.
Keith

Here's an interactive rule you can play with...

Virtual Pickett N4-ES Slide Rule

www.antiquark.com

Looks like a deluxe model.

Whoa, it's a Dual Base Speed Rule!

Greg's Slide Rules - Pickett N4-ES

Pickett N4-ES

sliderule.ozmanor.com

Front

Back

There are plenty of "how to's" avialable to peruse.

"Engineer Edgar F. Peebles, obtained this slide rule free of charge as a replacement when the numbers came off the slide rule he had used in college. He first used it from 1959 to 1965 in the satellite control facility of the Air Force at Sunnyvale, Calif. He then used it as a down range representative for Lockheed Missiles and Space Company from 1965 to 1968 in tests of the Polaris missile. Finally, from 1968 to 1969 he used the slide rule in the checkout area of the test Polaris missile manufacturing plant in Sunnydale."

 

[AdamG]

Here's something: If I grasp the tone arm between my thumb and forefinger the hum recedes to an ignorable level. I'd love to hear one of you slide-rulers explain that to me.

Always somebody wants to hear "full details of this "normal" equipment, up to and including the amplification and how things are plugged in for power". Like grounding principles are different if there's a different name on the nameplate. I think that they're really just voyeurs who want to hear all the details so they can

Yeah, you can dial back the Snarky insults. All that is likely to get you is snarky replies and eventually a forum ban.

 

[HarmonicTHD]

Here's something: If I grasp the tone arm between my thumb and forefinger the hum recedes to an ignorable level. I'd love to hear one of you slide-rulers explain that to me.

Always somebody wants to hear "full details of this "normal" equipment, up to and including the amplification and how things are plugged in for power". Like grounding principles are different if there's a different name on the nameplate. I think that they're really just voyeurs who want to hear all the details so they can

You can hum along as you learn to use the slide ruler.

 

[Pareto Pragmatic]

Please help me to interpret this.

I am so tempted to go super crude.

They are sticks, with sticks in them, that slide around to do calculations. So slip stick is basically a version of "slidey nesty sticks". Slang term, mostly used (I think) by people who used them all the time.

Or so I assume, I am far too young to have actually used one, but old enough to have grown up in a house where one was in a desk.

Slipstick does show up in some older literature, which is where I first ran across the term.

 

[MAB]

I get what you're saying but how am I a ground when I'm floating around in space?

I don't have a wire wrapped around my ankle and going to a stake in the ground somewhere...

You don't have to wear a ground strap to get electrocuted, right? All you need to do is touch a hot wire with just one part of your body.

You are missing a ground somewhere, and the AC mains in your house is producing a voltage that gets amplified. Due to the RIAA phono equalization curve, any voltage that appears on the signal carrying wires is going to get proportionally amplified. If you live in a place with 60Hz AC mains, that is the tone you hear, if 50Hz, then you hear that tone. So, yes plenty of people know what really makes turntables hum.

In the old days, when lots of people had turntables, you could ask a friend or neighbor or the local hifi store if you had your ground wires hooked up correctly. These people would often ask the same questions your are being asked here, like: What is the turntable and tonearm and phono preamp? Is the tonearm and table grounded together? Does it hum less when you touch the tonearm or the turntable metal parts? This is the beginning a process of elimination that occurs on the common problem of turntable hum.

 

[computer-audiophile]

I am so tempted to go super crude.

They are sticks, with sticks in them, that slide around to do calculations. So slip stick is basically a version of "slidey nesty sticks". Slang term, mostly used (I think) by people who used them all the time.

Or so I assume, I am far too young to have actually used one, but old enough to have grown up in a house where one was in a desk.

Slipstick does show up in some older literature, which is where I first ran across the term.

As a non-native speaker, it is sometimes difficult to translate or understand terms correctly. Some can be ambiguous, or slang. Sorry.

 

[sergeauckland]

When I was still young in my profession, it was customary for us to wear a clean white coat in the lab. A slide rule visible in the breast pocket. The first 'pocket calculator' I was given was a Compucorp, as big and heavy as a brick. Many years later, HP pocket calculators came into fashion as a status symbol.

That was me in my first job in 1971. Engineers had white lab coats, stores had brown, factory operatives had blue coats, mechanics had blue overalls. Management wore suits, although us engineers wore suits too, but took our jackets off and put on lab coats. All very rigid.

As to slide rules, I thought I still had mine, but just looked for it and can't find it. It must be at least 40 years since I used it. Mine was a Faber Castell.

S

 

[Mean & Green]

I get what you're saying but how am I a ground when I'm floating around in space?

Ah! So you’re an astronaut trying to play records in zero G.

Lack of a proper ground connection will be the least of your worries, the record won’t sit on the platter let alone the stylus in the groove. Didn’t even need a slide rule to work that out.

 

[SIY]

I gotcha beat. When I went to school, we got our daily issue of fresh clay and a clean stylus. Not only that, but our textbooks were unbelievably heavy (the phrase "chiseled in stone" comes to mind).

Jim

The flash used for my baby photos was the Big Bang.

 

[sergeauckland]

When I was still young in my profession, it was customary for us to wear a clean white coat in the lab. A slide rule visible in the breast pocket. The first 'pocket calculator' I was given was a Compucorp, as big and heavy as a brick. Many years later, HP pocket calculators came into fashion as a status symbol.

That was me in my first job in 1971. Engineers had white lab coats, stores had brown, factory operatives had blue coats, mechanics had blue overalls. Management wore suits, although us engineers wore suits too, but took our jackets off and put on lab coats. All very rigid.

As to slide rules, I thought I still had mine, but just looked for it and can't find it. It must be at least 40 years since I used it. Mine was a Faber Castell.

S

 

[HarmonicTHD]

The flash used for my baby photos was the Big Bang.

You win.

 

[OldHvyMec]

I get what you're saying but how am I a ground when I'm floating around in space?

I don't have a wire wrapped around my ankle and going to a stake in the ground somewhere...

Yeah, you can dial back the Snarky insults. All that is likely to get you is snarky replies and eventually a forum ban.

Yikes!

I found asking a question and then replying to the answer as if it were incorrect leaves me wondering. If you know the answer
why ask the question?

If you don't understand the question that is one thing, to act as if others don't is rather rude.
BTW I do have a wire wrapped around my ankle. Tinfoil cap and all. You should see me when I go to the store. That cable wrapped around
MY ankle is LONG.

That cartridge and HOW it's set up is important. 1/2 the Grado carts made took a person knowing about "Grado" carts to get them quiet.
Very tiny wires, very small connections and "everything is not normal," or you wouldn't have noise. It's NOT normal to have any
floor noise. Every bit is there because you allow it.

I'm picky, there is no floor noise in properly maintained equipment that I use. I use a LOT of vinyl and valve equipment everywhere. ZERO noise.

Turntables are like wine. You can make a gallon of Red Mountain work, it depends on what your trying to do. Wart off the effects of
being exposed to a nuclear reactor leak or actually enjoying a glass of wine.

Quality questions, normally, result in better answers.

What are you working with, from the stylus back to the wall plug?

Regards

 

[Mr. Widget]

So I set up a normal turntable with a normal (Fidelity Research) tone arm and a normal cartridge and normal cables. And the turntable hums like nuts, way more than one can ignore. I mean, I bought all this normal stuff because I wanted to get rid of hum.

And nobody really knows anything about this, do they?

As others have said it is definitely a grounding issue.

Unfortunately as easy as it is to say that, it can be a real bear to track down and eliminate. I once had a situation where an "Easy Listening" FM station came through via my low output moving coil cartridge. I was never able to eliminate it completely. I fixed the problem when I moved.

Try changing your cables between the tonearm and the phono stage. They don't need to be expensive, but they need to be properly shielded and ideally internally twisted. You mentioned an FR arm. That means that you have an arm that wasn't manufactured by the turntable manufacturer. The arm/turntable may not be properly grounded. You may have a loose head shell wire, or damaged internal wiring within the arm, or the connection to the RCAs could be bad.

A simple turntable is not so simple. A compromised wire or connection anywhere between the cartridge and the preamp can cause a grounding issue.

 

[teched58]

One thing I think no one has mentioned is that his TT could (also; i.e., in addition to the grounding issue) be getting interference from a co-located component.

Is the turntable sitting on or next to a receiver, amplifier or other component?

Are the TT cables (and perhaps its power cord) running next to, or tangled up with, any other power or signal cabling. (I think this was mentioned earlier in the thread.)

I had a hum once that turned out to be coming from an old Sony clock radio that I had sitting on top of my analog stack. (I know; space limited bedroom). I eliminated the hum by putting a piece of aluminum foil underneath the clock radio.

P.S. As noted by @Mr. Widget above, the tonearm wiring may be at issue. Is this a new or an old tonearm. If it's an old tonearm, the OP needs to do a continuity check on all four wires and he needs to do it multiple times as he moves the tonearm toward the center and out again. (Easier: put on a record, and set the tonearm down on multiple spots, see if any hum/interruption in the output occurs.)

What I'm getting at here, which all the other old guys will immediately grok, is that the thin wires inside the tonearm are subject to breakage as the years go by, I.e., the cable kinda sorta may develop little breaks as if a cat had been chewing on it. So you might have a great connection in one position, but when the tonearm moves the connection breaks. This can also often manifest as hum.

 

[ahofer]

Here's something: If I grasp the tone arm between my thumb and forefinger the hum recedes to an ignorable level. I'd love to hear one of you slide-rulers explain that to me.

Always somebody wants to hear "full details of this "normal" equipment, up to and including the amplification and how things are plugged in for power". Like grounding principles are different if there's a different name on the nameplate. I think that they're really just voyeurs who want to hear all the details so they can

I'm surprised anyone paid attention to you after that little temper tantrum.

I knew I was going to get an avalanche of snowflakes when I posted. That's okay, I'm sure y'all have special problems in your lives.

 

[Mr. Widget]

I knew I was going to get an avalanche of snowflakes when I posted. That's okay, I'm sure y'all have special problems in your lives.

Does this sort of comment usually work for you?